Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point 'scholarship' but never applied

[JW55]

Has anyone seen anything in Politico talking about the positive attributes of Mr. Carson? I haven’t.

I did a search on Politico about articles on Ben Carson, Here were some of the most recent items, other than today’s events—Insiders: Carson Can’t Win, Ben Carson: I’d share a Drink with Jesus; Ben Carson defends Nazi Comments. This seems very one-sided. The gist of most of their articles seems to follow a negative theme. Where is the balance with positive comments? Most people on this forum would regard RT as a tool of Russian propaganda but not extend the same opinion to what for all intents to this very leftist leaning journalism which is primarily read by liberal readers. Obviously, it appears to have an agenda to discredit what they perceive as a political threat in anyway possible to the democratic/socialist candidates. Please take an objective look at this and see this for what it is. I think it is nit-picking and discrediting over trivial issues to outweigh the positive aspects of this man’s life.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Has anyone seen anything in Politico talking about the positive attributes of Mr. Carson? I haven’t.

I did a search on Politico about articles on Ben Carson, Here were some of the most recent items, other than today’s events—Insiders: Carson Can’t Win, Ben Carson: I’d share a Drink with Jesus; Ben Carson defends Nazi Comments. This seems very one-sided. The gist of most of their articles seems to follow a negative theme. Where is the balance with positive comments? Most people on this forum would regard RT as a tool of Russian propaganda but not extend the same opinion to what for all intents to this very leftist leaning journalism which is primarily read by liberal readers. Obviously, it appears to have an agenda to discredit what they perceive as a political threat in anyway possible to the democratic/socialist candidates. Please take an objective look at this and see this for what it is. I think it is nit-picking and discrediting over trivial issues to outweigh the positive aspects of this man’s life.

The American left is scared to death of a Ben Carson run. All he will do is take votes from their base.

The reality is that the Democratic Party has this coalition of inclusion that is pasted together by the dollar in the form of entitlement as well as grievance protocols. The fact is fairly large swaths of the DNC base don’t agree with the party platform, so they need these kinds of techniques.

Besides, it was Olbermann who made the assertion that if one didn’t vote for Obama, one was racist. So vote based on appearance, not quality of character ie, Dr. King’s message in reverse.

I don’t think much of the media isn’t too keen on admitting or coming to terms with the fact that Ben Carson could easily beat out Jeb for the nomination and then cruise over Clinton when he was supposed to be one of those Palin/Cruz types who in their view would only land 33% of the vote in a general election. But in reality, a ticket like that may have defeated Obama/Biden in 2012.

 

[Suudy]

They also pointed out that a representative from West Point said that the academy does not offer scholarships.

Semantics. I had appointments to both West Point and USAFA. At our high school graduation ceremony, the colonel they sent for both announced that the appointments were “equivalent to a $200k scholarship at a private institution.” Certainly as a high school student one views it as a scholarship.

One other point. When I initially applied, I only applied to Annapolis because of my father’s career in the Navy. I got a call from a retired Army general that he had seen my letter to representative and senator requesting a nomination to the Naval academy. He encouraged me to apply for West Point as well saying that based on my letter he could virtually guarantee that immediately after graduation I would be sent to graduate school. My aptitude with computers, he said, would guarantee me a job in the intelligence community. And while he never expressly stated that it was a scholarship, it certainly sounded that way after hearing about “all school paid for,” and “no need to worry about tuition,” and “room and board included.” It’s not a surprise at all that some 17 year old not totally familiar with the process would view it as a scholarship.

Edit: And as apparently pointed out in a link above, West Point does refer to it as as scholarship.

You have to apply and go through the process. They either accept you or reject you.

There’s two steps: nomination and application. First you have to get a nomination. That involves either a nomination from your representative or senator, or through a vice-presidential or presidential nomination. The former two are available to everyone. The latter two are available to children of career military. And there may be other ways as well. I remember reading that children of medal of honor winners were automatically granted a nomination.

The second step, application, requires filling out all the appropriate paperwork at getting a physical. For West Point and USAFA (at least when I was in high school) required only a few pages of forms, like a basic job application, and a copy of your high school transcripts. For Annapolis, there was also an essay requirement.

Actually, from my experience, you need some political connection to get in.

Not mine at all. I was fortunate to receive presidential nominations for all 3 academies because of my fathers 30 year naval career. He was a mustang O3 with no political clout. My best friend from high school also received a nomination to USAFA from our representative. His family was not politically connected at all.

The hard part is getting the nomination. And I suppose that some representatives and senators could play political games to grant appointments. But of the academy grads I know well (about a dozen), none were particularly well connected. The only example I can think of is a guy who’s father was an actual representative. But he didn’t get his nomination from his father, but from a senator. That could perhaps be political, but he didn’t think so, stating that his father specifically refused to help him and that he had to do it on his own.

In return for your education, you’re required to serve on active duty, for 6 years.

When I was at USAFA, it was 4 years active duty with 2 years reserve. I wonder if that has changed. And if you left before your junior year there was no requirement to serve. And between that and graduation you were required to serve as an enlisted.

My best friend is going onto his 20th year after graduation (he was class of '96). Several of our USAFA classmates got out immediately after their 4 years.

 

[Path_Finder]

In West Point’s own words and of course, this is current versus back in 1969:

Financial and Service Obligation

As a cadet, you are a member of the U.S. Army and receive a full scholarship and an
annual salary of more than $10,000 from which you pay for your uniforms, textbooks, a
laptop computer, and incidentals. There is no tuition charge, but there is a requirement for an
initial deposit. Room, board, and medical and dental care are provided by the United States
Government.

westpoint.edu/admissions/shared%20documents/wp_prospectus.pdf

 

[Peter_Plato]

I can just hear it now, “Did you or did you NOT cross every ‘t’ and dot every ‘i’? I want the truth!”

If the press would only turn their baleful eye upon Hillary…sigh

Or on themselves.

 

[Corki]

Semantics. I had appointments to both West Point and USAFA. At our high school graduation ceremony, the colonel they sent for both announced that the appointments were “equivalent to a $200k scholarship at a private institution.” Certainly as a high school student one views it as a scholarship.

Exactly. And WP refers to the full ride as a “scholarship” in recruiting emails and mailings.
It’s a short-hand way to explain how an academy education is really funded but it’s stated in a way that high school students and their parents understand.

There’s two steps: nomination and application. First you have to get a nomination. That involves either a nomination from your representative or senator, or through a vice-presidential or presidential nomination. The former two are available to everyone. The latter two are available to children of career military. And there may be other ways as well. I remember reading that children of medal of honor winners were automatically granted a nomination.

There are also nominations through ROTC, including JROTC, which is likely what Ben Carson would be been eligible for. There are also direct appointments, but they are rarer.

The hard part is getting the nomination. And I suppose that some representatives and senators could play political games to grant appointments. But of the academy grads I know well (about a dozen), none were particularly well connected. The only example I can think of is a guy who’s father was an actual representative. But he didn’t get his nomination from his father, but from a senator. That could perhaps be political, but he didn’t think so, stating that his father specifically refused to help him and that he had to do it on his own.

How hard it is depends on how competitive your district is. There are many Congressmen who leave nominations unused every year. Nominations from inner city urban districts are the least used. Hmmmm like maybe Detroit in the 70s. The academies use those spots to make appointments to candidates they want for various reasons - sports, diversity (geographic and racial) and other special needs of the Army.

The MOCs (members of Congress) are very sensitive to claims of patronage with nominations. When my son went through the process, the actual evaluation of candidates was done by a committee and the MOC kept an arms-length distance in the decisions to maintain objectivity.

When I was at USAFA, it was 4 years active duty with 2 years reserve. I wonder if that has changed. And if you left before your junior year there was no requirement to serve. And between that and graduation you were required to serve as an enlisted.

My best friend is going onto his 20th year after graduation (he was class of '96). Several of our USAFA classmates got out immediately after their 4 years

The current commitment after WP is 5 years active and 3 reserve, but that has changed from time to time. Not sure what it was when Ben Carson was a senior in high school.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well when I was graduating from high-school back in 1970, a couple of guys I know went into the military academies. One went to the US Navel Academy and the other to West Point.

Both, wrote to Ted Kennedy for help to get into those schools.

The one who went into the Navel Academy became a pilot and died in an aircraft accident.

The other who went to West Point, became an engineer for the US Army and I still see him on FB. In fact, he was on the tv show, “Wipe Out,” with his daughter.

As far as Carson, his statements are in his book and in his interviews.

So it wasn’t the media who falsely accused him, but he indicted himself in the court of public opinion.

OH and BTW, will conservatives demand that he release his grades as they did to Obama ?

Jim

 

[Jeanne_S]

Well when I was graduating from high-school back in 1970, a couple of guys I know went into the military academies. One went to the US Navel Academy and the other to West Point.

Both, wrote to Ted Kennedy for help to get into those schools.

The one who went into the Navel Academy became a pilot and died in an aircraft accident.

The other who went to West Point, became an engineer for the US Army and I still see him on FB. In fact, he was on the tv show, “Wipe Out,” with his daughter.

As far as Carson, his statements are in his book and in his interviews.

So it wasn’t the media who falsely accused him, but he indicted himself in the court of public opinion.

OH and BTW, will conservatives demand that he release his grades as they did to Obama ?

Jim

No problem re any of Dr.Carsen’s acedemic records.He has proven himself,by his professional credintials to be brilliant.He is a brain surgeon for crying out loud.What was Obama?A community Organizer.This is a no brainier…no pun intended

 

[7_Sorrows]

I can just hear it now, “Did you or did you NOT cross every ‘t’ and dot every ‘i’? I want the truth!”

If the press would only turn their baleful eye upon Hillary…sigh

isn’t that the truth! all the flagrant lies the democrats get away with. and they are big ones.

 

[SuperLuigi]

So it wasn’t the media who falsely accused him, but he indicted himself in the court of public opinion.

Yeah, sure.

OH and BTW, will conservatives demand that he release his grades as they did to Obama ?

Has Obama even released his grades?

 

[meltzerboy]

The American left is scared to death of a Ben Carson run. All he will do is take votes from their base.

The reality is that the Democratic Party has this coalition of inclusion that is pasted together by the dollar in the form of entitlement as well as grievance protocols. The fact is fairly large swaths of the DNC base don’t agree with the party platform, so they need these kinds of techniques.

Besides, it was Olbermann who made the assertion that if one didn’t vote for Obama, one was racist. So vote based on appearance, not quality of character ie, Dr. King’s message in reverse.

I don’t think much of the media isn’t too keen on admitting or coming to terms with the fact that Ben Carson could easily beat out Jeb for the nomination and then cruise over Clinton when he was supposed to be one of those Palin/Cruz types who in their view would only land 33% of the vote in a general election. But in reality, a ticket like that may have defeated Obama/Biden in 2012.

When you allege that Ben Carson is feared by the left because he will take votes away from the Democratic base, are you mainly referring to African American votes? Or are you referring to liberal guilt that would compel White voters to vote for an African American? The latter I do not agree with at all, but if you mean the former, I agree with that to an extent, based more on his social conservative views, which a certain proportion of African American voters can identify with, than on his race. However, due also to Carson’s social conservative views, he is just as much NOT likely to take votes away from the Democratic base, the latter consisting of diverse constituents in addition to African American voters.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

No problem re any of Dr.Carsen’s acedemic records.He has proven himself,by his professional credintials to be brilliant.He is a brain surgeon for crying out loud.What was Obama?A community Organizer.This is a no brainier…no pun intended

Uhm Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law, which automatically says what his grades were. They don’t give those degrees out for less than excellent.

Obama was a lawyer who also was a Professor of Constitutional Law.

So, Carson gets the pass, but Obama doesn’t, which shows the hypocrisy of the Obama haters.

Jim

 

[7_Sorrows]

thefederalist.com/2015/11/06/politico-admits-fabricating-a-hit-piece-on-ben-carson/

But you can’t unring a bell, and that’s what this is all about.

I am glad they admitted to fabricating a hit piece and I am glad their attempt to smear Carson failed!!

So an CAF posters who have gleefully been posting on this hit piece care to respond?

 

[philipl]

Oops!

Jim

if proven true He will pull out of the race, I wasnt going to vote for him he supported a pathway to citizenship.

 

[7_Sorrows]

No problem re any of Dr.Carsen’s acedemic records.He has proven himself,by his professional credintials to be brilliant.He is a brain surgeon for crying out loud.What was Obama?A community Organizer.This is a no brainier…no pun intended

exactly! big difference!

 

[SuperLuigi]

When you allege that Ben Carson is feared by the left because he will take votes away from the Democratic base, are you mainly referring to African American votes? I agree with that to an extent, but based more on his social conservative views, which a certain proportion of African American voters can identify with, than on his race. However, due also to Carson’s social conservative views, he is just as much NOT likely to take votes away from the Democratic base, the latter consisting of diverse constituents in addition to African American voters.

Well, the reality is that different sections of the Democratic base are actually more socially conservative than some groups of republicans, depending on which criteria are examined.

I doubt Carson would (and I don’t think anyone is expecting this) get a majority of the African-American vote, certainly not on the first try. But he doesn’t need to in the general election.

 

[meltzerboy]

I am glad they admitted to fabricating a hit piece and I am glad their attempt to smear Carson failed!!

So an CAF posters who have gleefully been posting on this hit piece care to respond?

I, for one, am not in the least interested in smearing Ben Carson. However, his recent string of remarks, ranging from his comment about never voting for a Muslim as President to the Holocaust to evolution as well as his call for a ban on ALL abortions, are enough to make many moderate and liberal voters think twice about Carson’s own way of thinking before considering him as the prime alternative, anti-establishment Presidential candidate (not that Donald Trump is more satisfactory due to a variety of other reasons). Unfortunately, several of the politically experienced establishment candidates, such as Jeb Bush and John Kasich, are not so appealing since they lack the charisma factor and seem to be dull as dishwater. Chris Christie does have a charismatic personality, even though he has toned it down somewhat, but his campaign appears to be a non-starter.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I, for one, am not in the least interested in smearing Ben Carson. However, his recent string of remarks, ranging from his comment about never voting for a Muslim as President to the Holocaust to evolution as well as his call for a ban on ALL abortions, are enough to make many moderate and liberal voters think twice about Carson’s own way of thinking before considering him as the prime alternative, anti-establishment Presidential candidate (not that Donald Trump is more satisfactory due to a variety of other reasons). Unfortunately, several of the politically experienced establishment candidates, such as Jeb Bush and John Kasich, are not so appealing since they lack the charisma factor and seem to be dull as dishwater. Chris Christie does have a charismatic personality, even though he has toned it down somewhat, but his campaign appears to be a non-starter.

Everything you state as a concern or negative re Dr.Carson,is a big plus in my opinion.How refreshing that a candidate isn’t shying away from hot button issues and stating his actual belief,not just pandering to the audience.I know,The moderates are holding the ball,in re to the election,hey who is to say,that direction won’t go in favor of a true Conservative?

 

[Path_Finder]

I, for one, am not in the least interested in smearing Ben Carson. However, his recent string of remarks, ranging from his comment about never voting for a Muslim as President to the Holocaust to evolution as well as his call for a ban on ALL abortions, are enough to make many moderate and liberal voters think twice about Carson’s own way of thinking before considering him as the prime alternative, anti-establishment Presidential candidate (not that Donald Trump is more satisfactory due to a variety of other reasons). Unfortunately, several of the politically experienced establishment candidates, such as Jeb Bush and John Kasich, are not so appealing since they lack the charisma factor and seem to be dull as dishwater. Chris Christie does have a charismatic personality, even though he has toned it down somewhat, but his campaign appears to be a non-starter.

*I, for one, am not in the least interested in smearing Ben Carson. *

Apparently Ben Carson suffers from the Brian Williams syndrome.

Also, if one is in a Catholic forum, as one is respected, one might learn that many Catholics do believe all abortions should be banned. In essence, one taking the view “ALL abortions” should be banned as what Carson has said, should admit that in the abortion haven of parts of the US, they have probably voted for politicians that are pro-abortion rather shamelessly so, there is a good probability such a point of view has regularly voted for ALL abortions.

We know, that some of the minority communities in NY have been decimated thanks in part to NY abortion activists of the late '60s and '70s such as Dr. Bernard Nathanson, Betty Friedan and others. This just needs to be said. We could even call such a sort of “ethnic cleansing”.

 

[Path_Finder]

Before one criticizes Dr. Carson’s absolutist views on banning abortion, I wonder if the critics have voted numerous times to in fact, support pro-abortion politicians, really being an enabler of such. Funding Planned Parenthood half a billion a year and so on.

It seems one can get a Free Ride on their views, running down the likes of say Kasich and Bush and so on, claiming Carson’s views on abortion are too radical, at the same time, one may well be one of the biggest enablers of abortion around through their liberal vote.