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kimmielittle
Guest
As did I …
The Priest molestations might cause a person to have a crisis.
The rest of excuses used …was to want the Church to conform to their ideas.
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As did I …
The Priest molestations might cause a person to have a crisis.
The rest of excuses used …was to want the Church to conform to their ideas.
A
Alan55
Guest
The woman who wrote the article is an judge – not the sort of person to look for an excuse rather than accepting responsibility for her own beliefs, statements and actions. She doesn’t want to leave the Church that has been her life-long home and yet finds it painful to remain. Go ahead and take potshots – I think she’s got lots of company, although few are as intelligent and articulate as she in expressing her pain.
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1holycatholic
Guest
Dissent is painful, especially at the particular judgement.
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irishpatrick
Guest
To the Chicago Tribune:
Hello,
I read the Tribune piece by Judge Sheila O’Brien on Wednesday, August 04, 2010. While the judge makes some valid points in her piece, it is beyond shocking to know that a person would ask to be separated from Christ’s Church. The judge demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of the faith when she asks for an excommunication. She also demonstrates the same lack of understanding when she attacks the Church for not being able to ordain women to Holy Orders (a topic that has been addressed thoroughly by the Church many times in recent years: the Church has no authority to ordain women).
Hello,
I read the Tribune piece by Judge Sheila O’Brien on Wednesday, August 04, 2010. While the judge makes some valid points in her piece, it is beyond shocking to know that a person would ask to be separated from Christ’s Church. The judge demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of the faith when she asks for an excommunication. She also demonstrates the same lack of understanding when she attacks the Church for not being able to ordain women to Holy Orders (a topic that has been addressed thoroughly by the Church many times in recent years: the Church has no authority to ordain women).
Code:
One must remember that the Church is not a club with a membership card that can be revoked. A person receiving an excommunication is barred from the Sacraments (except reconciliation) until they have been restored to grace through repentance and confession. A baptized Catholic is always a Catholic even if they have been excommunicated. The judge should know that, just as the judge should know that the Church has no Divine authority to ordain women.
Without doubt or question the church has fallen short in how it has handled the abuse crisis and it has been slow to respond. There is no defense or excuse for the horrible actions some Priests have committed against the young. However, the Church has taken action in many areas and abuse today is lower in Catholic institutions (in the USA), than in any other place. Helping victims still in pain remains a priority and insuring such horrors do not happen again is at the forefront of the Church's concerns...the judge, if she did proper research, would know that.
What is more troubling is that the judge claims to have had 22 years of Catholic education, yet she appears to not have a grasp on the nature of sin, and she certainly does not appear to understand the fallen nature of all humanity (as if Priests are somehow protected from their own fallen nature).
As Catholics, we believe with absolute conviction that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church that Christ founded and that it represents the fullness of the Christian faith. Never did Christ promise an easy journey for us or for His Church. In fact, Jesus once promised that the gates of Hades would not prevail against His Church, which means that the gates of Hades would constantly try to tear down His Church. Grave sinners have existed in the Church from the very beginning, the infamous Judas committed a most incredible grave sin when he betrayed Christ, yet the other Apostles and the other believers of that day did not walk away from Christ simply because Judas committed a heinous act.
As Catholics we believe that Christ is truly present in His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the form of the Eucharistic species. Every time we receive communion in a state of grace we are flooded with graces from our Risen Lord. One would hope that it would be very nearly impossible to pull someone away from such an amazing gift, yet in the end people must have a proper understanding and formation to realize what they are receiving during communion, despite the existence of sinners all around us.
It is my hope and prayer that Judge O’Brien learns the faith at much more deep and personal level and that she chooses to remain with Christ and His Church. After all, getting to Heaven should be the goal for every person.
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
She’s not the Lone Ranger.
ncronline.org/news/vatican/inner-workings-hierarchy-sex-offender-mentality
ncronline.org/news/vatican/inner-workings-hierarchy-sex-offender-mentality
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irishpatrick
Guest
He seems to be supporting female ordination. Yet, he can speak all he wants, the matter is resolved for good…it has been infallibly proclaimed that the Church has no authroity to ordain women. End of story. Women can push for another 1,000 years, it won’t happen and cannot happen.
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
That was one of many points.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
A great man once said something to the effect that a lie does not cease to be a lie even if every person believes it truth;
Nor does the truth cease to be the truth even if every person believes it to be a lie.
No matter how many people want to slice ‘female ordination’, it’s still a lot of baloney.
The Church has no authority to ordain women.
No “authority.” Meaning that this teaching is not something to come up debate at the next "Theology on Tap’. It’s over, done, part of the infallible Magesterium and the deposit of the faith, clearly and distinctly set forth over and over.
We don’t confect the Eucharist with beer and pretzels; we use wine and bread.
We don’t ordain a woman to the priesthood; we ordain men.
Valid matter. . .matters.
Nor does the truth cease to be the truth even if every person believes it to be a lie.
No matter how many people want to slice ‘female ordination’, it’s still a lot of baloney.
The Church has no authority to ordain women.
No “authority.” Meaning that this teaching is not something to come up debate at the next "Theology on Tap’. It’s over, done, part of the infallible Magesterium and the deposit of the faith, clearly and distinctly set forth over and over.
We don’t confect the Eucharist with beer and pretzels; we use wine and bread.
We don’t ordain a woman to the priesthood; we ordain men.
Valid matter. . .matters.
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
'As long as both abuse of minors and the ordination of women are avoided, the law is kep, and Rome is happy."
…
“Let us be clear: We are not suggesting that church leaders are sex offenders. But we must name a tragic reality: Many of them think or respond the way sex offenders do when confronted with clergy sex abuse and its cover-up: They deny, defend and blame. They minimize and cover up. They become outraged when their abysmal handling of abuse cases is exposed. Most egregious of all, they display appalling deficits in empathy for victims: They turn to categorizing crimes when all people want is a heartfelt pastoral response from their leaders.”
…
“Let us be clear: We are not suggesting that church leaders are sex offenders. But we must name a tragic reality: Many of them think or respond the way sex offenders do when confronted with clergy sex abuse and its cover-up: They deny, defend and blame. They minimize and cover up. They become outraged when their abysmal handling of abuse cases is exposed. Most egregious of all, they display appalling deficits in empathy for victims: They turn to categorizing crimes when all people want is a heartfelt pastoral response from their leaders.”
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
You know, it’s kind of interesting that you bring this up. Because the LCWR (you know, the big group of NUNS–that is, of women religious) have been in the news recently because of their own coverups of abuse among women religious who have abused children.
**Imagine. If the idea is that somehow the ‘male’ Church leaders with minimization, coverups etc. are so bad in dealing with abuse, and women would be ‘better’–well, the fact is, the women aren’t only just as bad, they’re worse. Because they’ve had the example of how the scandal went among the ‘men’. . .and here it is 10 years on and they --the women–aren’t just doing the same things they rake men over the coals for, they’ve been doing it longer. . .knowing how bad it was. . . rather hypocritical don’t you think? **
Check out Father Z’s post on June 20, 2010: LCWR’s Longstanding coverup of sexual abuse of children by nuns. . .
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Jimmy_Martello
Guest
Actually…if she truly believes what she claims to believe and participates in any women’s ordination or advances the cause of the culture of death, she won’t need Rome to excommunicate her. She will have automatically excommunicated herself. It’s very sad to think about.
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CMatt25
Guest
Tantum we don’t know what Christ might direct a future pope to do.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Oh, so you think future Popes will declare the Trinity to be a Quartet, right?
Future Popes will confect the Eucharist with milk and cookies to make it more 'kid friendly.
I don’t just think that won’t happen --I KNOW it won’t happen.
Neither will God ‘change’ His Word regarding the fact that the Church has no authority to ordain women.
You don’t get it. "No authority’. See, Popes don’t get to make changes to what has already been ‘decided’ by God. That’s why no Pope will ‘change’ the definition of the Trinity to ‘quartet’ and no Pope will ‘change’ the accidents of the Eucharist to milk and cookies, and no Pope will ‘change’ to permit men to marry men and women to marry women. . . sacraments require VALID MATTER.
Holy Orders is a SACRAMENT, Matt.
We don’t change sacraments. Christ instituted them and He would not say, "Oh golly me. I was too frightened to allow women priests all those years ago but now things are different.
I was too ‘insensitive’ to allow same sex marriage all those years ago but now things are different.
I was too ‘ethnic’ to allow milk and cookies all those years ago but now things are different.
God doesn’t CHANGE, Matt. Read the catechism and accept authority with humility. It is hard to kick against the goad. . .
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
Who is saying female cover up is wrong. I did read the report on the Irish Church and realize it is a problem. The documentary “The Magdeline Sisters” has been out for about 4 years. It is very informative and has a feature where the girls who were send to these schools speak out. In a way it was a souce of human trafficking for enslaved labor. What point are you trying to make about this?
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Considering the post I responded to was yours in which you quoted two paragraphs only. . .one an equation of women ordination and sexual abuse handling, the second in which there was an outcry over how the bishops had ‘mishandled things’. . .I thought it interesting to note that IF there was an idea where ‘women’s ordination’ would be considered as nowhere near as ‘awful’ as the sex coverup, the fact is, the coverup was not limited to Catholic bishops --or even to Catholic nuns. The same people (the LCWR has been vocal in its support of women’s ordination and its denunication of the bishops and the sex scandal) are themselves guilty of the same behavior they castigate the bishops for–and have not addressed it (as the bishops had) and have kept on trying to coverup the last 10 years and more while simultaneously claiming that a big piece was because women weren’t in POWER, because women would have STOPPED the abuse. . .whereas the truth is, they not only would not have stopped it, they’re at least as guilty if not more so.
So perhaps the juxtaposition of both sexual abuse and women’s ordination as being two issues (among OTHERS) of gravity isn’t as ‘shocking’ as the MSM might think.
C
CMatt25
Guest
Ok Tantum. But if contrary to what you think God decides to open Holy Orders to women someday for instance because His Church is shutting too many doors due to a lack of male celibates, then you can decide what to do about it when the time comes I guess. Peace.
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
I’ll get back to you. One word you might want to considera: punctuation. To tired to decipher the code tonight.
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1holycatholic
Guest
It can not happen - ever, there is no “someday.”
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
And if contrary to what you think God decides to reimage Himself as the Fab Four because adding Mary makes Him more 'woman friendly, you can decide what to do when the time comes.
Because the idea of THAT happening is as likely as your scenario. Plaice out.
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kimmielittle
Guest
I know LCWR isn’'t a laughing matter…BUT next they will want an Obama bailout
PS this is not real folks ]
actsoftheapostasy.blogspot.com/2010/05/oh-no-another-bailout.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ActsOfTheApostasy+(Acts+of+the+Apostasy
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