Expensive / Beautiful Churches

[PeteZaHut]

Why are really expensive churches made with all the intricate designs and golden ceilings? I know it is to glorify God, but wouldn’t God prefer that money be used to help others?

 

[porthos11]

Why are really expensive churches made with all the intricate designs and golden ceilings?** I know it is to glorify God,** but wouldn’t God prefer that money be used to help others?

Then this should be reason enough, shouldn’t it? After all, are there limits to how we can glorify God? The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is even more important then helping the poor.

Other than that, it’s just Judas all over again.

 

[Leeta]

God is present in the tabernacle and on the altar and He is worthy of all the gold and jewels we could encrust about Him! They are dust compared to Him.

But as human beings beings, body and spirit, we need to express our love and adoration with physical means and as a sign to us to know that God is here and He is worthy of all we can give Him. We have to worship with all our senses, not just with the heart.
The gold is a mere shadow compared to the glory of God, but it is a help for us mortal who must wait until death to finally experience the total beauty that God is.

The Orthodox and Eastern Catholics use gold and jewels a lot, too, in their buildings.

I love the Baroque churches. Perhaps due to the Calvinist culture here, not many have been built in the US that I know of. Perhaps someone knows of such a church here?

 

[surfinpure]

Matthew Chapter 26:

6
5 Now when Jesus was in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, 7 a woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of costly perfumed oil, and poured it on his head while he was reclining at table. 8 **When the disciples saw this, they were indignant and said, "Why this waste? ****9 **It could have been sold for much, and the money given to the poor." 10 Since Jesus knew this, he said to them, "Why do you make trouble for the woman? She has done a good thing for me. 11 The poor you will always have with you; but you will not always have me.

 

[marybell1961]

The poor will be with us always.

right on!

We have tangible reminders of the holiness of God when we have gold encrusted tabernacles…that is why we have sacraments…so we can link the spiritual with the temporal, and thereby gain understanding and meaning.

We live in a physical world, we need the tangible and sensible to call to mind the spiritual and unseen.

 

[Guldenat]

I would like to point out that the reason for such lofty churches is not to glorify God. These churches are designed in such a way as to help the people inside them focus and pray. Each aspect of gothic, neo-gothic, and all other sorts of church architecture (except contemporary, perhaps) are specifically designed to psychologically effect every person that enters. An exampe: The very high ceilings and overall largeness of a church is meant to convey a sense of the power and greatness of God.

God is no more pleased by a large church then he is with a small hut in Nigeria. It’s the faith of the people worshipping in them that bring a smile to his face (although the beautiful churches certainly bring a smile to my face)

PS just to clarify… if a diocese has plenty of money… I think God might be offended if it went around building dinky churches to be cheap, though I do suppose everything depends on the intention.

 

[TC2]

Around here, the purpose of most of these mega churches isn’t to glorify God, but man. Seems like everyone is jumping on the ‘bigger and flashier is better’ bandwagon.
For my part, this turns me off. I don’t need fancy pews, lots of bling, valet parking, ect ect ad nauseum to worship and feel God.

Currently, DH and I are members of a small church of about 25 members, of whom roughly half go on a reg basis. The church is made of white painted cinder block, uncushioned pews, and the old style red carpet. Colored frosted (not stained) glass windows, the old jalousie type. It is as holy and reverent as any of those newer larger churches. Sometimes, when the weathers nice, we have our Sunday School out under the pines and oaks, with the breeze swishing through. Very nice.

I’ve been to large churches, and felt God there, but for long term worship, I find ‘the more, the more distracting’.

 

[LilyM]

Why are really expensive churches made with all the intricate designs and golden ceilings? I know it is to glorify God, but wouldn’t God prefer that money be used to help others?

God had a lot to say about the designs of Moses’ meeting tent, the Ark of the Covenant and Solomon’s Temple. Not to mention the very vestments (down to the underwear ) worn by Aaron and his priestly clan. In His plans He Himself specified that the best and costliest of materials were to be used in so doing.

If He has the right and desire to command us to worship Him on the sabbath, surely He cares too about the surroundings in which this worship is to take place.

 

[GraceDK]

“The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is even more important then helping the poor”. - porthos

I find this statement highly problematic and I hope no non-catholic sees it. It is written that if we do not have love we have nothing… nothing at all.

I for one would just love to see the new church buildings simple but beautiful… using the sun-light that God created and the artistic work that the congregation would make… It would be of great symbolic value if all golden vestments were sold and the money given to the poor and we would keep it simple but beautiful. Jesus had a pair of sandals and a few linen-tunics to wear… he was a poor man. We talk so much about imitating Christ and being the original Church so why not put our pride in the Living Spirit of God and in a simple honest life. Jesus gave water and a loaf of bread as means for the sacraments. And He was praying under the stars at night and eating with sinners and publicans in their houses. these are his Churches… the hearts of the poor, the hearts of the broken.

 

[Philothea53]

God had a lot to say about the designs of Moses’ meeting tent, the Ark of the Covenant and Solomon’s Temple. Not to mention the very vestments (down to the underwear ) worn by Aaron and his priestly clan. In His plans He Himself specified that the best and costliest of materials were to be used in so doing.

I don’t mean to appear lazy, but don’t have a clue where to look - could you help me with specific references to what you have stated above? I am having dinner with my son and his wife AND her ~Baptist, anti-Catholic, watch services on TV parents and would love to have this info in my arsenal

 

[TC2]

Very well put, Grace.

 

[porthos11]

“The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is even more important then helping the poor”. - porthos

I stand by my statement. The Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life. Helping the poor should flow from the Mass. But helping the poor is by itself incapable of meriting anything outside of grace, and the Eucharist is the summit of grace.

I SURE hope non-Catholics see this statement and think. Nothing, NOTHING, absolutely **NOTHING! ** is more important than the Mass.

I find this statement highly problematic and I hope no non-catholic sees it. It is written that if we do not have love we have nothing… nothing at all.

And we start by loving GOD first, by worshipping him at Calvary. Otherwise, we are incapable of loving others.

Again, I say nothing about not helping the poor. But I still insist that the Mass is the most sacred deed that can ever be done on this planet. Even when Judas was complaining about helping the poor, Jesus was already talking about his death and how Mary’s actions were more beautiful.

I for one would just love to see the new church buildings simple but beautiful… using the sun-light that God created and the artistic work that the congregation would make… It would be of great symbolic value if all golden vestments were sold and the money given to the poor and we would keep it simple but beautiful. Jesus had a pair of sandals and a few linen-tunics to wear… he was a poor man. We talk so much about imitating Christ and being the original Church so why not put our pride in the Living Spirit of God and in a simple honest life. Jesus gave water and a loaf of bread as means for the sacraments. And He was praying under the stars at night and eating with sinners and publicans in their houses. these are his Churches… the hearts of the poor, the hearts of the broken.

Churches should be made beautiful to dignify what goes on there, and so that the poor can feast their eyes on the beauty that they are also entitled to behold. What’s wrong with a good retablo, and a dignified Tabernacle to host the King of kings? What’s wrong with noble vessels to hold the Precious Blood that was shed for you and the poor? Does Jesus’ Blood deserve less?

By beautifying churches, you give the poor access to riches of beauty they will otherwise never have.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

God had a lot to say about the designs of Moses’ meeting tent, the Ark of the Covenant and Solomon’s Temple. Not to mention the very vestments (down to the underwear ) worn by Aaron and his priestly clan. In His plans He Himself specified that the best and costliest of materials were to be used in so doing.

If He has the right and desire to command us to worship Him on the sabbath, surely He cares too about the surroundings in which this worship is to take place.

Exactly. We learned about this in Bible study last year.

 

[TAS2000]

Last week in our local paper I saw an articale that said the local veterans group was in the process of raising $50,000 to put a monument to veterans in the park. I believe they said some kind of brass sculpture/statue thing. I immediatly thought how many articles lately have mentioned that veterans are getting substandard health care and their facilities are horribly out of date, etc, and wouldn’t it be better if that money was spent on improvents to the VA hospital or something like that? And yes, I thought exactly at the time that this is the same arguement that people use about expensive churches. So is it wrong to make a monument? It seems to be more a matter of opinion. In the group’s opinion, the money should be spent on a monument. Just because someone else has a different idea doesn’t make it wrong. Maybe that someone should organize their own fundraiser to help the cause they think is most important. If you don’t like it, give your money to the cause you do like.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by Philothea53
I don’t mean to appear lazy, but don’t have a clue where to look - could you help me with specific references to what you have stated above? I am having dinner with my son and his wife AND her ~Baptist, anti-Catholic, watch services on TV parents and would love to have this info in my arsena

It is in Exodus, Chapters 25-29.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant#Description

 

[mercygate]

When I was poor and Protestant (OK: I was never STARVING) I used to sneak into the beautiful Catholic church on my way home from school and wondered at the love that prompted the immigrants in my neighborhood to build such a magnificent tribute to God.

Their pennies and dimes, joined together, made something that will nourish the heart and souls of thousands of people for generations to come.

 

[fix]

“The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is even more important then helping the poor”. - porthos

I find this statement highly problematic and I hope no non-catholic sees it. It is written that if we do not have love we have nothing… nothing at all.

No mass. No Eucharist.

I for one would just love to see the new church buildings simple but beautiful… using the sun-light that God created and the artistic work that the congregation would make… It would be of great symbolic value if all golden vestments were sold and the money given to the poor and we would keep it simple but beautiful.

What symbolic value? And to whom? Why must we be minimalists in these matters? The Holy Spirit has guided the Church for centuries I have no reason to believe He got it wrong along the way.

Jesus had a pair of sandals and a few linen-tunics to wear… he was a poor man.

Ok, but does that mean every Church building must be sparse? Where is the evidence for this other than your interpretation?

We talk so much about imitating Christ and being the original Church so why not put our pride in the Living Spirit of God and in a simple honest life.

What is dishonest about high art and beautiful architechture?

Jesus gave water and a loaf of bread as means for the sacraments. And He was praying under the stars at night and eating with sinners and publicans in their houses. these are his Churches… the hearts of the poor, the hearts of the broken.

So, everyone must wear a tunic and sandals and live in a hut to be Christ-like?

 

[mercygate]

No mass. No Eucharist.

What symbolic value? And to whom? Why must we be minimalists in these matters? The Holy Spirit has guided the Church for centuries I have no reason to believe He got it wrong along the way.

Ok, but does that mean every Church building must be sparse? Where is the evidence for this other than your interpretation?

What is dishonest about high art and beautiful architechture?

So, everyone must wear a tunic and sandals and live in a hut to be Christ-like?

For those who feel called to austerity and simplicity and to renounce the way of affirmation, there are already many avenues under the Catholic umbrella.

The Cistercians, the Missionaries of Charity, certain associations of the faithful live extremely austere lives. Perhaps the OP is being called to a radical witness of Our Lord’s counsel of Poverty.

 

[manualman]

It always cracks me up to see these posts because I have the OPPOSITE irritation!

I live in a parish where the average family has the best of everything: newish cars, 3-4,000SF homes, pools, cleaning and lawn services, the whole upper middle class works. And yet the parish can’t retire its debt on the 7 year old church building that has budget steel reinforced glue-lam wood ceiling beams, exposed concrete and exposed block walls, stamped concrete floors… Not 2% of the congregation would suffer to live in such building specifications THEMSELVES, but their giving level says that they feel it is all God is worth.

That’s the real scandal. People demonstrate what they value by where they put their money. When they put their money into a worship space that is gorgeous and requires sacrifice, it says something about the community. When they don’t, that speaks volumes too. Complaints about the ‘waste’ in spending on beautiful architecture smacks of a guilty conscience to me.

What bothers ME is when the priests live high on the hog. I met an ordered priest yesterday for a project at work in an order that has vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. He had on designer slacks and shoes, a windshirt from a country club, drove up in a $45,000 Cadillac and sported two (!?) Blackberries. The meeting regarding a huge change in mission for a property owned by the order involved no prayer and a surprising amount of cuss words by the priest. Sigh.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM;2989667:

God had a lot to say about the designs of Moses’ meeting tent, the Ark of the Covenant and Solomon’s Temple. Not to mention the very vestments (down to the underwear ) worn by Aaron and his priestly clan. In His plans He Himself specified that the best and costliest of materials were to be used in so doing.

I don’t mean to appear lazy, but don’t have a clue where to look - could you help me with specific references to what you have stated above? I am having dinner with my son and his wife AND her ~Baptist, anti-Catholic, watch services on TV parents and would love to have this info in my arsenal

There’s far too much info to encapsulate it. Suffice to say that the entirety of Chapters 25-31 of Exodus is about God’s commands to Moses in regard to the design and construction (and instructions from God about) of the Meeting Tent and Ark and related serving vessels etc, and the vesting and institution of Aaron and his clan as priests.

They make interesting reading. Ex 28:42 in particular is about God commanding linen drawers to be made for Aaron and the other priests - I love that God would consider such details!