Expensive / Beautiful Churches

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Why do we decorate our homes? Why buy a bed when I could sleep on the floor and give the cost of a bed to the poor? Why buy nice paintings, lamps, furniture? God knows it is good for us to be able to see and appreciate beauty-- after all, His creation is beautiful. Beautiful things, especially religious art/statuary and architecture, make me feel good and make me feel closer to God. Granted I feel just as close out in the woods on a nice day, but it would be difficult to have regular outdoor masses! The Catholic church gives more money, time and resources to the poor and needy than any other organization- religious or not- on the face of the planet. I’ll be dipped if I’ll let anyone say Catholics waste money on beautiful churches instead of helping the poor!
 
PeteZaHut said:
Why are really expensive churches made with all the intricate designs and golden ceilings? I know it is to glorify God, but wouldn’t God prefer that money be used to help others?
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**A little bit of historical (name removed by moderator)ut here. About a hundred years prior to the year A.D. 1000, there was a vast cultural movement in Europe revolving about the “end of the world.” The Lord was returning in that year, seers were proclaiming, and the Church’s theologians began to study Revelation quite seriously. There was also a serious shift in the Liturgy as the Mass began to reflect “heaven on earth” within Revelation itself. After A.D. 1000, architects began to plan and build beautiful houses of worship with intricate designs, colored glass that reflected biblical events, and even great paintings, beautiful statues of saints, etc. - all to bring the worshipper to the understanding that churches were indeed “heaven on earth.” This culminated in the Renaissance.

I am sure that God appreciates the beauty we have bestowed on our houses of worship throughout the centuries, and I am sure He delights in our creative endeavors. However, I also feel very strongly that if the upkeep of a house of worship supercedes the congregation’s responsibility for the corporal and spiritual works of mercy and money donated to these causes, then I think the mark has been missed.

The Lord said that a day would come when we worship God in Spirit and Truth in the heart. **
 
I think tastes as well as how we see our faith can be so very different.
Somebody might feel that decorating a church with wonderful beauty is a wonderful way of honoring God. And if it comes from the heart, it is good.
Somebody else might feel such an expensive church does not fit the picture of Christianity, it should be humble, simple, “poor”… and if it comes from the heart, it is good.

The problem with very expensive churches MIGHT be that they might turn people from the second group away.

But then, there are different parishes!

Kathrin
 
Guldenat said:
I would like to point out that the reason for such lofty churches is not to glorify God. These churches are designed in such a way as to help the people inside them focus and pray. Each aspect of gothic, neo-gothic, and all other sorts of church architecture (except contemporary, perhaps) are specifically designed to psychologically effect every person that enters. An exampe: The very high ceilings and overall largeness of a church is meant to convey a sense of the power and greatness of God.

God is no more pleased by a large church then he is with a small hut in Nigeria. It’s the faith of the people worshipping in them that bring a smile to his face (although the beautiful churches certainly bring a smile to my face)

PS just to clarify… if a diocese has plenty of money… I think God might be offended if it went around building dinky churches to be cheap, though I do suppose everything depends on the intention.
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Agreed. I thought that in the Bible, I’ll have to search, God suggested making inornate places of worship??:confused: Maybe I’m recalling this incorrectly…but, I believe it to be in the OT.

Jesus actually preached outside on a mountain…I don’t believe that an ornate Church will bring out the best worship services, over a smaller, more modest setting. I do like to see high cathedral ceilings, though…it does feel majestic.:harp: :heaven:
 
Kathrin said:
I think tastes as well as how we see our faith can be so very different.
Somebody might feel that decorating a church with wonderful beauty is a wonderful way of honoring God. And if it comes from the heart, it is good.
Somebody else might feel such an expensive church does not fit the picture of Christianity, it should be humble, simple, “poor”… and if it comes from the heart, it is good.

The problem with very expensive churches MIGHT be that they might turn people from the second group away.

But then, there are different parishes!

Kathrin
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While we may each “feel” differently about how the sort of building in which we’d like to worship, we as Catholics know that our Mother Church has decided it is better to create a heavenly atmosphere in the house of God - one where Christ the King (no longer on earth, but in His full glory) can be properly honored. Since this is the decision of our forefathers and founders of the faith, I have no trouble submitting myself to their authority on the subject. It is a certainty that they knew what they were doing.

Or put more simply, if I can trust the Church Fathers in matters of dogma and doctrine, can I not trust them in matters of architecture and design?

I do see your point, though, that the magnificence of some of our church buildings may turn away those who reject such things. However, it is likely that they would turn away regardless, being opposed to submission to the authority of the See of Peter.
 
planter654 said:
When God destroyed the earth in Noah’s time he did so with a flood, this time he said he will purge it with fire did he not?

Love to all God Bless.🙂
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Read John’s Revelation. I think it’s more than fire!
 
PeteZaHut said:
Why are really expensive churches made with all the intricate designs and golden ceilings? I know it is to glorify God, but wouldn’t God prefer that money be used to help others?
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I’d rather not make a fuss about this. Seems like this was the same concern on the perfumed oil that was lavished on Jesus’ feet. Only that the one who was concerned on the lavishness later sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Not a good way to be associated.
 
peary said:
**A little bit of historical (name removed by moderator)ut here. About a hundred years prior to the year A.D. 1000, there was a vast cultural movement in Europe revolving about the “end of the world.” The Lord was returning in that year, seers were proclaiming, and the Church’s theologians began to study Revelation quite seriously. There was also a serious shift in the Liturgy as the Mass began to reflect “heaven on earth” within Revelation itself. After A.D. 1000, architects began to plan and build beautiful houses of worship with intricate designs, colored glass that reflected biblical events, and even great paintings, beautiful statues of saints, etc. - all to bring the worshipper to the understanding that churches were indeed “heaven on earth.” This culminated in the Renaissance.

I am sure that God appreciates the beauty we have bestowed on our houses of worship throughout the centuries, and I am sure He delights in our creative endeavors. However, I also feel very strongly that if the upkeep of a house of worship supercedes the congregation’s responsibility for the corporal and spiritual works of mercy and money donated to these causes, then I think the mark has been missed.

The Lord said that a day would come when we worship God in Spirit and Truth in the heart. **
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Well said: Lucifer is a great deceiver. He starts out slowly a great soothsayer he knows we are human and weak and leads us away slowly. Lucifer even appears as an angel. the 2 commandment is very simple to understand. God knows how little we are! Look what has even happened to Christmas, Easter we forget the true meaning of these feast days of the Lord we even change the names. We become slaves to our idols and begin to worship them working 6-7 days a week to have them, pay for them, charge them etc. Look at the world today families that have been “destroyed” because of all these idols. The family suffers etc. We choose not to have children to be fruitful and multiply and cultivate the earth. Why? Because we say we can’t afford it, we need all these idols etc. Idols, Idols, Idols!!!

Christ—mas how sad!! Easter–bunny:shrug:

Love to all
 
planter654 said:
Well said: Lucifer is a great deceiver. He starts out slowly a great soothsayer he knows we are human and weak and leads us away slowly. Lucifer even appears as an angel. the 2 commandment is very simple to understand. God knows how little we are! Look what has even happened to Christmas, Easter we forget the true meaning of these feast days of the Lord we even change the names. We become slaves to our idols and begin to worship them working 6-7 days a week to have them, pay for them, charge them etc. Look at the world today families that have been “destroyed” because of all these idols. The family suffers etc. We choose not to have children to be fruitful and multiply and cultivate the earth. Why? Because we say we can’t afford it, we need all these idols etc. Idols, Idols, Idols!!!

Christ—mas how sad!! Easter–bunny:shrug:

Love to all
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Again, this is a bait and switch. How do statues and beautiful churches equal idolatry?
 
jfallaw said:
Why do we decorate our homes? Why buy a bed when I could sleep on the floor and give the cost of a bed to the poor? Why buy nice paintings, lamps, furniture? God knows it is good for us to be able to see and appreciate beauty-- after all, His creation is beautiful. Beautiful things, especially religious art/statuary and architecture, make me feel good and make me feel closer to God. Granted I feel just as close out in the woods on a nice day, but it would be difficult to have regular outdoor masses! The Catholic church gives more money, time and resources to the poor and needy than any other organization- religious or not- on the face of the planet. I’ll be dipped if I’ll let anyone say Catholics waste money on beautiful churches instead of helping the poor!
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church and its purpose is to spread the gospel and serve God! Catholic Church gets its ““money from whom””"?? God’s “image” is not something that can be graved or looked at. If you need a gold statues or beautiful churches to “make you feel good” and make “you feel closer to God” how sad. We seem to do our will and not what God has ask of us or commanded us. we please him when we obey him and his laws, commandments.

Who dare stand before the creator who created them!! We are the temple of the Lord!! We are created in the IMAGE" of the Lord! If we want to feel good, closer to God then, become “ONE” with him for God is all Holy, all truth, all good, all mercyful, all forgiven, all compassion, all mighty, all powerful, all wisdom, all eternal, all sorrowful, all joy, all serving, all humble, God is all and in all!! God is the great " I AM" That is God’s image!

We are created from “LOVE” to become “LOVE” to serve “LOVE”!!! Seek to become the image of God who is all “HOLY” We are created in the image of God to worship God and honour him I believe is to become “HOLY” . God loves us all dearly he has showed us that through his beloved son actions,suffering, serving us. But how much do we love him?? We need to crave a gold statue idol to do this, to make us feel good and bring us closer to God!! To remind us?

We crave a stone, paint black eyes on it, finish it off with gold and kneel before it, talk to it, carry it about and put it in high places in our churches, or our homes, dust it off, ask it for help. we slowly begin to worship it, now we can even through it in the garbage, we bless it etc. Then we say this stone brings us closer to God, this stone image makes me feel good!! Please!! Jesus was angry where in the temple for he said “” MY FATHERS HOUSE IS A HOUSE OF PRAYER"" God is present everywhere!! God is all knowing, all seeing, talk to him where ever you are at!!

God destroyed the earth with a flood in Noe’s time and this time God said he will destroy it by “FIRE”! Why do you think? God is not a liar! God will not be mocked!! Have we not turned our backs to him. What gift can you give him when all things are his? Like when God said you honour me with your lips but your heart is far from me!

Sorry I confess I have done the same thing in my home, work work, work for these idols that cannot save me. Keep up with the Jones. Jesus came to us who were poor in spirit. Thanks God Bless!!! 🤷
 
Jesus showed us how to “honour” and “worship” the Father. Kneel in his present and look up! look up! Simply talk to him tell him, ask him, knock, seek him etc. Jesus never kneeled before any gold statue!! Jesus served his father in obedience to his will and desire for him. "This is my son “in” whom I am well pleased!!! Seek “my image” before you always. When I was thirsty you gave me water to drink. When I was hungry you gave me food!! Mother Teresa showed us also!!! Mary in the Old Testament was serving, honouring Jesus with the expense oil. Mary was waiting upon the Lord. It was not the price of the oil but Mary was waiting upon, serving Jesus, she was showing her great love, compassion etc. Jesus knew Judas’s thoughts for he knew Judas stole from the purse, he Judas was not concerned for the needs of the poor when he said what he said, but for his own pocket!!

Jesus told the apostles what to do. Bring nothing with you not even a second cloak, trust in me I will provide for you don’t you think?

“The poor are hear to be seen. The rich are here to safe the poor and in the end the poor will save the rich”.

For no one is to boast, rather boast of what you have received for all have received so one can boast…St. Paul

For those who have been given much, much will be required of them, don’t you think. Think of what Abraham said about Laszarus at the gate and what happen to the rich man who was given much? What did Abraham say of him??

Beware of soothsayers!!! For who knows the thoughts of the creator who created you??? God is not foolish and Jesus did not suffer in vain!!! Like Mother Teresa said, we all are to become saint’s for our God is “HOLY”!!! God said he hates the world!

This is just my point of view? I do not think I was created in the image of God to grave gold statues. Jesus who showed us did not suffer in vain for us.

God Bless all!🤷
 
I do agree with you.

People didn’t recognize Jesus as the savior because they expected somebody like a king.
But Jesus came as a humble, a poor man.
I feel like we are called to live like that also.

Kathrin
 
planter654,

You would do well to read into Church history, and learn how no body on earth has done more to serve and worship God than the Roman Catholic Church. Nobody has sacrificed more, taught more, preached the Gospel more, made more converts, or been truer to Christ the King and all His teachings – even the hard ones. Poverty and Sacrifice are our lives, the very essence of who we are. Unlike Protestants, we do believe we have to live the commandments, under penalty of the consequence of sin, which is still death, no matter what the feel-good “reformed” theologians wish it were.

After a careful study, then, maybe, you’ll think twice about pointing such a vicious finger at actions whose motives you presume to interpret. You might also learn a bit about charity along the way.
 
Here is a salient quote from the late great Fulton Sheen:

Jn.12;4,5
“Judas became the spokesman of all those who through the centuries would protest the ornamenation of the Christian cult and would feel that, when the best of gold and jewels were given to the God Who made them, there was some slight made to the poor-not because they were interested in the poor, but because they were envious of that wealth.”
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure said:
planter654,

You would do well to read into Church history, and learn how no body on earth has done more to serve and worship God than the Roman Catholic Church. Nobody has sacrificed more, taught more, preached the Gospel more, made more converts, or been truer to Christ the King and all His teachings – even the hard ones. Poverty and Sacrifice are our lives, the very essence of who we are. Unlike Protestants, we do believe we have to live the commandments, under penalty of the consequence of sin, which is still death, no matter what the feel-good “reformed” theologians wish it were.

After a careful study, then, maybe, you’ll think twice about pointing such a vicious finger at actions whose motives you presume to interpret. You might also learn a bit about charity along the way.
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I did not say anything about our dear priest or thou poverty or sacrifice. The topic is about glorified churches and idols!

Sounds like alot of boasting, boasting and judging on your part. No one is judging the Catholic Church I am speaking of “IDOLS” the second commandment. Unlike Protestants–are you judging.them?. I am not here to judge!!! We will all be judged by God!!! For God see’s all, know’s all truth!!

I was not pushing a vicious finger but I do not believe we worship and honour God in making “Idols” If that affends you I am sorry, but I do not believe in such things that ““I also”” have knelt before prayed and talked to! . Jesus said " the time for such ignorance as ended" what does charity have to do with :“IDOLS”.

When you say “NO BODY ON EARTH” HAS NONE MORE to serve and worship God then the “Roman Catholic Church”— I think you forgetting about “Jesus Christ”, Moses, Abraham, Apostles, our dear Blessed Mother AND MOST OF ALL “GOD”` FOR WHOM ALL HAVE RECEIVED SO “NO ONE CAN BOAST”!!! And all who were crucified for their faith and those we do not even know who served God in the silence of their hearts!!!

And as far as telling me to read the Cathlolic Church history where would you like me to begin. Maybe starting with Abraham who came from “Africa”? Or the millions who were crucified for their faith??

I love our Pope, our priests, our family and pray for all the nations for we are all God’s children! I pray for all that God has placed in authority that God will give them strength to serve righteousness and justice for all in truth and according to God’s will and desire for us all!!

Jesus said: “If they hate you, know that they hated me first”

“a little child of God”
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure said:
planter654,

You would do well to read into Church history, and learn how no body on earth has done more to serve and worship God than the Roman Catholic Church. Nobody has sacrificed more, taught more, preached the Gospel more, made more converts, or been truer to Christ the King and all His teachings – even the hard ones. Poverty and Sacrifice are our lives, the very essence of who we are. Unlike Protestants, we do believe we have to live the commandments, under penalty of the consequence of sin, which is still death, no matter what the feel-good “reformed” theologians wish it were.

After a careful study, then, maybe, you’ll think twice about pointing such a vicious finger at actions whose motives you presume to interpret. You might also learn a bit about charity along the way.
Click to expand...
I told you it was my point of view!!! God Bless
 
PeteZaHut said:
Why are really expensive churches made with all the intricate designs and golden ceilings? I know it is to glorify God, but wouldn’t God prefer that money be used to help others?
Click to expand...
I agree God Bless
 
peary said:
**A little bit of historical (name removed by moderator)ut here. About a hundred years prior to the year A.D. 1000, there was a vast cultural movement in Europe revolving about the “end of the world.” The Lord was returning in that year, seers were proclaiming, and the Church’s theologians began to study Revelation quite seriously. There was also a serious shift in the Liturgy as the Mass began to reflect “heaven on earth” within Revelation itself. After A.D. 1000, architects began to plan and build beautiful houses of worship with intricate designs, colored glass that reflected biblical events, and even great paintings, beautiful statues of saints, etc. - all to bring the worshipper to the understanding that churches were indeed “heaven on earth.” This culminated in the Renaissance.

I am sure that God appreciates the beauty we have bestowed on our houses of worship throughout the centuries, and I am sure He delights in our creative endeavors. However, I also feel very strongly that if the upkeep of a house of worship supercedes the congregation’s responsibility for the corporal and spiritual works of mercy and money donated to these causes, then I think the mark has been missed.

The Lord said that a day would come when we worship God in Spirit and Truth in the heart. **
Click to expand...
I agree God Bless
 
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