experience with catholics

[Cindy]

bengal_fan:

i now work for a parachurch organization that doesn’t deal with the things that divide denominations. we are committed to sharing the basics of Christianity and encouraging participation in one’s denomination.

Hi Bengal Fan,

I used to work for a parachurch organization myself, and I found the disunity and doctrinal confusion among staff members to be quite disturbing. How do we share the basics of Christianity when we are divided on central theological issues? How can we simply “agree to disagree” when we know that somebody is teaching error? Are we not to worship God in “spirit and in truth”? If we love God, we will love Truth.

You say that Protestants seem to be living out their faith better than Catholics. But what about the moral collapse within Protestantism? How can you encourage participation in one’s denomination when half of Protestant denominations permit abortion? What about the growing acceptance of homosexual behavior and lifestyle? Protestantism succumbed to the secular culture on the issues of remarriage after divorce and contraception long ago. The Catholic Church alone has remained faithful and has stood firm on all moral issues for 2,000 years. The Catholic Church is a mother who tells us the Truth* – *even though some of her children refuse to listen.

One’s focus should not be on individual Catholics, but rather on the Truth of the Catholic faith. I’m excited about being Catholic because Catholicism is true.

God bless!

Cindy

 

[Gratias_Grace]

THE WORLD WE LIVE IN TODAY!

Bengal_fan, I have read through many of the posts on this thread. I think it is positive that you want to atract people to the catholic church.

As a convert from lutheranism to catholisism, and with experience of talking to other converts, I know that we all said YES to the call of Christ when he knocked at our doors. I also know that we, all, are unike individuals that had to go our own personal ways, guided by the Holy Spirit on our way to the Catholic Church.

With all respect, Bengal_fan, I am so happy that I did not meet you on my way to the CHURCH. I would have felt threathend by your rush to make me a good catholic. It could have made me closing the door.

This I write to make you stop and think. You must remember that the Church, even big, is so little compared to the seculare world. People attracted more to the seculare world than to God, will not give the seculare world away without a good reason. Arguing is one of the ways one MIGHT loose them.

Bengal_fan, Jesus said: **“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you”. (John 15:12). ** If you want to argue you can say that love is lot more than nice feelings for others. Yes it is. But GOD gave us a free will to choose. God will respect their definitive YES or NO in the moment they draw their last breath.

So must we. We must try to be good examples for others by the way we live. Our example must give them a wish to get what we have got as believing and practiseing catholics.

As Jesus is for us, we must be there for them when they need us (explane when they are ready, not drown them in words when they are not ready).
(Please excuse any spellingmistakes. English is not my first language).

Some referances (books):
amazon.com/gp/reader/0965922871/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-8203487-6908743#reader-link

amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1928832423/qid=1087480957/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-8203487-6908743?v=glance&s=books

amazon.com/gp/reader/0892838299/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-8203487-6908743#reader-link

Something to think about for the young ones (Young people need inspirations these days):
beatitudes.org/

emmanuelcommunity.com/

jeunesse-lumiere.com/princip.htm

Best wishes and God Bless!

G.G.

 

[Sparky]

bengal_fan:

real quick (as my last post was a short story):
i meant for this thread to be positive. a chance for you to talk about the wonderful things going on in your parishes that should be attractive to those who are not experiencing their faith. i did not intend to bash catholics or protestants. if people have gotten that impression from me (or any other post on a thread i started) i apologize. so let’s hear more of those things you are involved with and how you are reaching out to people. maybe even some stories would be good.

Hey, Bengel, here’s what you asked for:

The truth is, many Catholics are quiet about their faith. They go to mass, but you don’t often know what else they do because to a Catholic (generally) faith is quiet, spiritual, private. Many don’t let their right hand know what their left hand is doing. They don’t tout their works. They just livetheir faith quietly.

Sure there are rotten Catholics, or cultural Catholics. But in my experience, there are many more who would give you the shirt off your back if you’re in trouble, who pray for you when you don’t know, who bring food or comfort to mourning families, or just make their neighborhoods better, safer places.

Here in NYC, most of the fire department is Catholic. No lie. A priest at the World Trade Center disaster said he was mobbed by a gang of firemen about to go into the buildings asking for absolution before they went in. They knew they would die, and their relationship with God mattered. And still they went - not for other Catholics but other human beings in general.

This is the Catholic mindset. To live your life and do the best you can. I’ve seen it, and been a recipient of this sort of community for my entire life as a Catholic.

I can get more specific if you want, but my 3 month old baby is getting in the way of my keyboard…I’ll be back later.
–Ann

 

[Texas_Ex]

Bengal_fan:

As a formerly agnostic convert, I long struggled with the dichotomy in the Church between “theological” Catholics and “cultural” Catholics. Sparing you my months (years?) of anquish and disappointment about this situation, let me just cut to my conclusion: be part of the solution. Bring that enthusiasm to your new parish/diocese, and lead by example! There are those who will follow your example through the Holy Spirit – I’ve seen it myself.

Here’s another observation (strictly my personal opinion): What Protestants must remember about the Catholic Church is that American Catholics were an oppressed minority in this country for a long time. Like many minorities, they took on a very insular identity, and like those minorities now, there are many members of the group who still claim membership in it even though they no longer really identify with the underlying premise of the group. I think It’s a matter of family, personal heritage and sense of identity. In this way, many American Catholics resemble American Jews – I have many “Jewish” friends who haven’t been to temple is eons, almost seem ashamed of that heritage, and don’t live their life as practicing Jews, yet they cannot separate themselves from it.

I married into a (cultural) Catholic family before I converted. I would often find my wife learning anew about her faith through MY RCIA classes, which renewed her interest. I also would be asked questions about Catholicism by my Catholic in-laws, who have also taken a greater interest in their faith, rather than just the trappings and (little-t) traditions of it.

It’s amazing what God can do with a little help from “idle hands” here on earth …

 

[Gratias_Grace]

Sparky:

Hey, Bengel, here’s what you asked for:

The truth is, many Catholics are quiet about their faith.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Here in NYC, most of the fire department is Catholic. No lie. A priest at the World Trade Center disaster said he was mobbed by a gang of firemen about to go into the buildings asking for absolution before they went in. They knew they would die, and their relationship with God mattered. And still they went - not for other Catholics but other human beings in general.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

–Ann

Thank you, --Ann!

The quoted words from you, made tears in my eyes. I think this is about what I wanted to tell Bengal_fan about. (LOVE)!

To live as a christian (catholic or not) is to try to use the talents God gave us in our daily life and try to meet the ordinary callengers in life.

A fireman, a knitting great-grandmother, a teacher who teach children math, … are all doing good works.

Work is one of the originaly gifts from God: “…and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth” (Gen 1:28).

To do the daily ordinary things can be one way of honouring God. It is a way of saying THANK YOU to God for the talents he gave us.

May be Bengal_fan thaugts were on those catholics who pick and choose were they want to be obediant on the Church-teaching.

Well, I hope that the “pick and choose”-catholics, find their way back to the authority of the CHURCH, but since we can’t force them, we have to try to be good examples in the way we try to live our faith.

A SMILE IN CHRISTIAN JOY, can be more effective than many, many words.

Convertion is a whole life-happening. It never ends before we take our lasts breath.

We must try to be each-others good “travel-companions” on the road to God (to reach our heavenly destination)!

We must ask the Holy Spirit to give us ‘The Seven Contrary Virtues’: humility, kindness, abstinence, chastity, patience, liberality, diligence. And we must not forget about: The Seven Corporal Works of Mercy:

They are: feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, give shelter to strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick, minister to prisoners, and bury the dead.

(Please excuse any spellingmistakes. English is not my first language).

God Bless!

G.G.

 

[ms_cilantro]

I don’t know if my experience is of any use but I am Jewish and joined the church over 15 years ago. After meeting Jesus I did some church shopping and it got down to the Eucharist for me. I come for the food. It is disappointing when people don’t “get” what they have. The real question is where does God want you not, what are others doing or not doing.

 

[Cindy]

Katholikos,

I really enjoy your posts. Just wanted to tell you that I read your conversion story on the Coming Home Network website. Great story!

God bless!

Cindy

 

[Gratias_Grace]

I think I have read it too! It was a good story! A very good story!

By the way, the story I read, had some talking about a fallen-away priest. I want to tell that part of my own convertionstory was that a book about catholic fallen-away priests helped me to see that the catholic church must be the right one.

Gods way of working are not always strigth, but if we never stop praying, we will be led to THRUTH!

God Bless!

G.G.

 

[hawkeye]

Humm !!! usually better to take the plank from our own eyes first, then take the speck out of our brothers eyes.

 

[Lim_Weixiong]

…me?.. I must confessed that I had a lot of problems with protestants… I forced myself to protestant church because I want to marry my Girl…the community not approval to Hail marys, to Saints… too rosary… so much so I thought I was beliving in the wrong god n the peace I get from pray with Mary… questioned by me inside of me… I left the the Protestant Church… my cell leader even said " if he wants to bless you, u every wk change car also change"… I went thru a hard time forgiving myself for being so angry with them… I left for good n joined rcia for an explaination, who’s right, who’s wrong…

I hated everyone in the world, why was I doing all these?
even Benni Him’s show, didn’t touch me…
one evening… a Catholic Father started singing a protestant song “Sacrifice”-bob fitts…I broke into tears

just wanna say no church is perfect, the catholic church isn’t…nor the protestant… don’t judge, in order to keep the commandment,… we may be one oneday… take care everyone

 

[Booklover]

arnulf:

The view isn’t quite as bad from within the church. A great number of people attend mass faithfully and often daily, and do many good works in the community. There are often active Bible studies and prayer groups. Many lay people are active in various ministries within the church, and also outside it, such as bringing Holy Communion to the sick and shut in, visiting people in hospitals and nursing homes, jail and prison ministry, working with migrant laborers, staffing food pantries and homeless shelters, etc. A lot of these people live out their faith actively but may not talk about it too much.]

I’m sure there are lots out there doing good works who don’t want to draw attention to themselves, like Jesus told us to do.

 

[jim1130]

Texas Ex:

Bengal_fan:

As a formerly agnostic convert, I long struggled with the dichotomy in the Church between “theological” Catholics and “cultural” Catholics. Sparing you my months (years?) of anquish and disappointment about this situation, let me just cut to my conclusion: be part of the solution. Bring that enthusiasm to your new parish/diocese, and lead by example! There are those who will follow your example through the Holy Spirit – I’ve seen it myself.

Here’s another observation (strictly my personal opinion): What Protestants must remember about the Catholic Church is that American Catholics were an oppressed minority in this country for a long time. Like many minorities, they took on a very insular identity, and like those minorities now, there are many members of the group who still claim membership in it even though they no longer really identify with the underlying premise of the group. I think It’s a matter of family, personal heritage and sense of identity. In this way, many American Catholics resemble American Jews – I have many “Jewish” friends who haven’t been to temple is eons, almost seem ashamed of that heritage, and don’t live their life as practicing Jews, yet they cannot separate themselves from it.

I married into a (cultural) Catholic family before I converted. I would often find my wife learning anew about her faith through MY RCIA classes, which renewed her interest. I also would be asked questions about Catholicism by my Catholic in-laws, who have also taken a greater interest in their faith, rather than just the trappings and (little-t) traditions of it.

It’s amazing what God can do with a little help from “idle hands” here on earth …

I think that you hit on an important aspect: Anti-Catholic sentiment in this country. Historian Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. said that anti-Catholic sentiment is the most deeply rooted bias in the country. As such, I think that Catholics are a little more withdrawn and really have been punched around by non-Catholics since the time the Puritans landed here. Even now, many non-Catholic divinity schools, theologians, and evangelical ministers disseminate Catholic misinformation that perpetuates the anti-Catholic sentiment. You can even visit some of the threads on this forum to read the anti-Catholic sentiment that strongly and, occasionally, rudely dismisses Catholic doctrine. Even yesterday, I read posts stating that Pope Pius XII was Hitler’s Pope (how many more years must we deal with this issue?). It gets ludicrous and makes many of us over sensitive and downright inhospitable. Overall, when we try to explain doctrine, all of which is scripturally based and the traditions of the Apostles, and the non-Catholics scoff at it because of their commitment to Sola Scriptura then we may not exhibit necessary patience (mostly because posts of those trying to refute the Catholic Church seem to have the “ah-ha! Gotcha!” attitude (when all they really have is shallow interpretation based on subjective reasoning).

Also, having been raised Catholic, attended a parochial school and a private Catholic high school, I have not retained my information very well. In my humble opinion, I think that Catholicism should be nurtured regularly, and once I left high school my only source was the Mass where Catholic doctrine is not espoused on a regular basis. In contrast, Protestants are very aggressive in their devotion to Scripture. As inappropriate as this sounds, Protestants are like Avis in the rental car busy where Catholics may be Hertz: Like Avis, the Protestants try harder. I think the Protestants bring that zealousness with them when they join the Catholic Church. Those that do challenge in a positive way (compared with those who challenge on this site in a negative way) make us stronger.

Certainly there are knuckleheads on both sides of the pews. What can we do? I think educational classes through the church are the best way. I think that the distribution of information (rather than these thick Catechism and Catholic Dogma books) in simpler and more straight forward presentation be produced. Also, many of the Apologetics are lay people. Why can’t more members of the clergy help us out? I think that their silence has impacted us.

I thought this was a good thread and have enjoyed reading it.

 

[Subrosa]

bengal_fan:

this is not intended to be mean spirited or judgmental. i just want to know what everyone thinks about this. i am a protestant minister considering joining the catholic church. i know the historical arguments, the scriptural arguments, and i’ve heard personal testimony from a number of people. but i had to get some response about my personal experience with catholics. now remember i said i am a protestant minister but i was raised catholic. i attended mass every sunday until i moved out of my parents home. i tried to experience God in church but either i didn’t understand what was going (which is most likely even though i asked many questions and went through CCD and confirmation) or was too distracted by the echoes of crying babies. anyway, in my experience (which was 19 years of mass, 4 years of parochial school, a very catholic mother and grandmother, and living in many different places attending a number of parishes, and having many friends who claim catholicism) i see very few “catholics” whose faith is really a part of their lives. they seem to be the ones who (and this was accused of protestants on a different thread) only spend 1 hour a week with God and the rest of the week they live for themselves. their language (meaning dirty words, course joking) is reprehensible for some one who claims Christ. they make the excuse that they can just go to confession when they sin so it’s not any big deal (protestants are accused of believing they can do anything and still go to heaven. while they do believe this, they also are in general moral people who try to follow Christ’s commands and have more accountability. now i know catholics claim that confession is the best accountability but if it is anonymous what is the motivation to change?). i have met very (and i really do stress VERY) few catholics who really live their faith. now i know not to judge the faith by the believers, but in a sense we are supposed to do just that. i also know that some of these people aren’t true believers while others haven’t been properly catechized. futhermore, this website has shown me that there are many (and i do stress MANY) catholics who do love and live their faith and for that i am grateful to see. but what do you all think of the rampant (and i do believe it is rampant) lack of faith of american catholics? it really has become a religion, a series of hoops to jump through for most of the people i have come into contact with. i know this is long but it is one of the obstacles keeping me from the catholic church.

Hi Bengal Fan -

What you say about the any Catholics you encounter is something that I also don’t like about the religion. For years I went to church, sporadically at best, and most of my friends also did the same.

Then, several years ago I was given an opportunity to answer some challenges by a Jehovah’s Witness. I failed miserably!

I began to give the whole issue some serious thought. I came to the conclusion that I should “either put up or shut up”. I decided to become more deeply involved. I started to read. Apologists, histories, church documents, papal documents, church fathers and much more.

I have found out things that I never dreamed existed. I now confront Jehovah’s Witnesses and give then some real challenges.

I have also started to bring what I’ve learned to other Catholics. I have started opening thier eyes to what real commitment is. Many are still uninterested, or even apathetic, but I give them food for thought.

The reason I tell you this is that I think that you can do the same thing. You can become the example that brings Catholics and others to the Church. You can even more than I because of your experience with ministry.

One thing that you should realise is that other people’s behavior is no reason to deny truth. As parents admonish thier children, we do not have to do everything our friends are doing. The fact that there are poor Catholics is no reason for you not to do what you know that you should in your heart.

I realised this myself and now I am much closer to God and Jesus than I have ever been. I am considering different ways to involve myself and the Church has many different lay ministries. There is one for you, also.

Follow your heart. Don’t let other people’s behavior sway you. Do what you know is right.

Christ be with you,
Subrosa

 

[jim1130]

Subrosa:

Hi Bengal Fan -

What you say about the any Catholics you encounter is something that I also don’t like about the religion. For years I went to church, sporadically at best, and most of my friends also did the same.

Then, several years ago I was given an opportunity to answer some challenges by a Jehovah’s Witness. I failed miserably!

I began to give the whole issue some serious thought. I came to the conclusion that I should “either put up or shut up”. I decided to become more deeply involved. I started to read. Apologists, histories, church documents, papal documents, church fathers and much more.

I have found out things that I never dreamed existed. I now confront Jehovah’s Witnesses and give then some real challenges.

I have also started to bring what I’ve learned to other Catholics. I have started opening thier eyes to what real commitment is. Many are still uninterested, or even apathetic, but I give them food for thought.

The reason I tell you this is that I think that you can do the same thing. You can become the example that brings Catholics and others to the Church. You can even more than I because of your experience with ministry.

One thing that you should realise is that other people’s behavior is no reason to deny truth. As parents admonish thier children, we do not have to do everything our friends are doing. The fact that there are poor Catholics is no reason for you not to do what you know that you should in your heart.

I realised this myself and now I am much closer to God and Jesus than I have ever been. I am considering different ways to involve myself and the Church has many different lay ministries. There is one for you, also.

Follow your heart. Don’t let other people’s behavior sway you. Do what you know is right.

Christ be with you,
Subrosa

I think that EVERYONE can attest to meeting people of different religions, neighborhoods, ethinic groups, etc. who, in our eyes, prejudice us toward others in their groups.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

bengal

*i see very few “catholics” whose faith is really a part of their lives. they seem to be the ones who (and this was accused of protestants on a different thread) only spend 1 hour a week with God and the rest of the week they live for themselves. their language (meaning dirty words, course joking) is reprehensible for some one who claims Christ. they make the excuse that they can just go to confession when they sin so it’s not any big deal (protestants are accused of believing they can do anything and still go to heaven. *

Was this true of your parents and grandparents and siblings as well?

If so, it’s no wonder you lost your faith, since much of our later life is modeled on our earlier life. If it’s not true, why did you lose your faith? Because there are so many bad Catholics in the world? Then you might regain your faith by looking for the good Catholics. The Church is full of them. That you haven’t found them suggests to me that you are not moving in the right circle of Catholics.

Is that possible? Read more Catholic writers, then ask yourself if protestant spirituality really seems deeper and more fulfilling than Catholic spirituality.

Above all, read the history of your denomination. If it did not exist before Martin Luther, you are most certainly not connected to the truth faith.