experience with catholics

[hlgomez]

we are not here to debate protestant and catholic

certainly my reply wasn’t a debate, was it? i just explained it because you seems to attack the Church, and i’m here to defend it.

but you have to admit that there are a great number of catholics (and many who publish books, write in magazines, and more deplorably teach at catholic universities) who have fallen into the same trap.

it’s not the same trap since those people didn’t create another “church” but still belong to the same fold. it’s good to be in the same boat even if it stinks . Anyways, nobody hates same member of the family, even if they are disobedient.

Bengal, i’m not trying to upset you, sorry if you interpret it that way. Don’t be mad at me, pleeaseee…

Shalom,

Pio

 

[bengal_fan]

jennifer,
now i’m winning! 68-67 yeah for me! :tiphat: :bowdown:

 

[MariaG]

Spokenword,

In the Evangelical church I attended, when new people would show up they would say, I felt the need for God, I didn’t know where else to turn, I just wanted to be close to other believers, I’m shopping for a church. Not once in any of the protestant denominations I have attended has anyone I approached said we were just here on vacation, my home church is…

In the Catholic church I now attend, every new person I approach has said we are just visiting, our home parish is in … Not once has anyone said I just felt the need to get back to my roots, God calling, etc.

That is why I said I feel more Catholics attend Church while on vacation than Protestants. In my experience, it is the truth.

Thanks for the defense Bengal_Fan, I’m sorry you had to be attacked for it.

God Bless
Maria

And as a matter of fact, I do believe not attending Mass, if at all possible, every Sunday is a sin. I believe it falls under the first commandment as Jesus stated: Love your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind. If I can’t manage one day a week that God set aside as Holy, I surely am not even close to loving Him with my whole self. I certainly can go and still not fulfill that command, but I do not believe it is possible for me to fulfill that command by not going.

 

[Lee]

SPOKENWORD:

Sorry Lee, your statements are not neccessarly true, There are good and bad in all denominations. That is exactly why I left the RCC,because I wasnt living the way I should. I was the one who would drink,the one who used foul language ect… So you have to be careful how you judge.

I am not sure I understand you. I was pointing out that others judge Catholics based upon stereotypes. I wasnt judging. I was telling others not to. I know there are bad persons in every denomination. Thats my point! My church, the Catholics Church is made up of sinners. We dont hide that fact. Jesus said he came for sinners. So if you want a church that doesnt have sinners, good luck finding it. If you want to belong to the Church the loves sinners, that seeks out sinners come back to the RCC. So you left the church because YOU drank and swore? I am thinking you are the one responsible for that, not the church. I dont think I have ever attended a Mass where the priest said it is was ok to swear and get drunk. My 1st grade teacher Sister Xavier taught me swearing was sin and to do all things in moderation. Drinking, eating, etc. Glutony is still considered a sin.

 

[MiddleBear]

Don’t be scandalized by others actions. Come back to the Catholic Church.

 

[bengal_fan]

Lee:

I dont think I have ever attended a Mass where the priest said it is was ok to swear and get drunk.

this is not derogatory, just interesting little note, in many areas it is the catholic festival that is the once a year debauchery festival. i personally don’t think it is wrong to drink (yes to get drunk as paul says in ephesians is wrong but not drinking) as long as you are of age and responsible, but i think that is not stressed much in the areas i have seen where the catholic festivals provide free alcohol to the people working at the festival (especially the ones working the gambling area which is a whole different topic ) and the priests themselves are a little tipsy (everybody in the club get tips… )(it’s a rap song out now…lol). i am not judging at all as i attend these festivals and have a lot of fun, but i am also one who operates in moderation at them.
also, you said: “If you want to belong to the Church the loves sinners, that seeks out sinners come back to the RCC.”
in my experience, i have seen very few catholics seeking out sinners to bring them back, it is mostly protestants that i have seen which is why is started this thread to see what you are doing to seek and save that which is lost.

 

[1962Missal]

I would say that the Catholic Church has a lot to learn when it comes to reaching the lapsed Christians or even post-Christians in our society. There is much that we can learn, on this score, from our Separated Brethren, (Especially if they come home. )

However, the Catholic Church, in a manner that exceeds any other body within Christendom, has brought the Gospel into places that have not yet received it. Witness the Christianization of Northern Europe and the British Isles. Think, also, of the work of the Church, often directly opposed by the Spanish and Portuguese, in Latin America. And, today, the explosive growth of the Church in sub-Saharan Africa. And the work of Mother Theresa in India.

The Church may need improvement, it always has and it always will, but do not assume that the record in one category means that the Church is not doing Her job of advancing the Kingdom of God on Earth. Perhaps people like you can help the Church to make her message more relevant to those in developed countries, which, if you think about it, is where there is the most room for improvement.

Justin

 

[newby]

It seems to me that your issue is irrelevant to whether you come into full communion with the Catholic church. What you do should not be influenced by those in or out of the Catholic Church. You should follow truth. Numbers of “good” Catholics or “good” Protestants do not impact truth. Finding what you believe is the true church is all of our goals so that it will help us achieve salvation. We are all on different spots on our faith journey. You and I are not in the same place we were even last week. We either move forward or backward, but never stay the same. I hope you find what God is calling you to do. I will include you in my prayers. I know that what you live is more important than what you say.

God Bless You,

Newby

 

[bengal_fan]

1962Missal:

However, the Catholic Church, in a manner that exceeds any other body within Christendom, has brought the Gospel into places that have not yet received it. Witness the Christianization of Northern Europe and the British Isles. Think, also, of the work of the Church, often directly opposed by the Spanish and Portuguese, in Latin America. And, today, the explosive growth of the Church in sub-Saharan Africa. And the work of Mother Theresa in India.

you are quite right justin!
the movie “the mission” is one of my favorites and i completely agree that the catholic church has done amazing things in advancing Christianity. my comment was for the catholics in america. i am not attacking the catholic church, i am just trying to get more catholics here in america actively living their faith.

"Numbers of “good” Catholics or “good” Protestants do not impact truth. " -Newby

actually, the bible tells us that we can learn a lot about some one or something by it’s fruit. that is what i’m talking about. i’m not seeing a lot of good fruit from the catholic church in america (i say i’m not seeing it, it doesn’t mean it’s not happening which is why i started the thread).

 

[JCPhoenix]

I have only a few things to say, but can in all honestly apply them mostly to myself.

I have not been a very good Catholic/Christian. While I claimed to be Catholic and struggled with my own questions, I was seperated from God and the Church…any Church. I could not bring myself to attend any other religious service, but did attend Mass occasionally. I let myself be led by liberal people around me who subscribed to situational ethics…and were proud of that.

I let myself be led by the nose by people who had never even met Jesus. And I let my faith falter.

I was like those lukewarm Catholics or Protestants, and I fear that I was partially responsible for some of the poor reputation of the Catholic Church.

However, through the Grace of God I am finding my way, slowly and nearly blindly sometimes, and I hope that through people like you, Bengal FAn, otherse can also find their way. I came back through the intervention of anti-Catholic literature, aided by my own investigative nature. (That’s just a polite way of admitting I’m very nosy and I HAVE to know what’s going on! )

I don’t mean to defend…oh…yes I do. Who’s kidding who? I DO mean to defend some Catholics. We are by nature somewhat reserved, and currently we in the Church are in crisis. We will get through this as we always have, but every battle has casualties. God gave us free will, and some of use are excercising it for the good of the Church, some are leaving…and of those, some will come back like I did.

We Catholics are not perfect, and only very few of us are saints (I am not one of them). Please, please don’t judge the Faith on the majority, but by the minority who really try.

Take time to ask God…he’ll direct your steps and help you find the right people. The shepherd knows his sheep.

And as a Protestant Minister, maybe you can remember the exact story/verses: I can’t remember the person, but it was in the Old Testament. God had directed someone to go into a city (or was this Acts?) and find 7 good people and God would spare the city if he could find them. That person pleaded with God, finally “bargaining” him down to only 1 good person…if he found 1 faithful person, he was asking that God spare the city, and God promised this.

Please remember this story…you are considering the Catholic faith. Don’t condemn it for the many, but accept it for the few, and make the few stronger with your own faith and knowledge.

God Bless, and I’ll pray that you find your way!

 

[Little_Mary]

SPOKENWORD:

Sorry Lee, your statements are not neccessarly true, There are good and bad in all denominations. That is exactly why I left the RCC,because I wasnt living the way I should. I was the one who would drink,the one who used foul language ect… So you have to be careful how you judge.

Spokenword,

please don’t blame the RCC for your personal choices.

 

[ralphinal]

OK, this may be bad to say, but remember that this is a Catholic saying it. At this time, you do not see a lot of fruit from the Church because it was not cultivated. It is too easy to be a lazy Catholic. We have had a generation of priests who never mentioned sin from the pulpit. We have had years of poor religious education programs. We have had nuns who taught that they should be priests, and no one called them on it. Why? Beacuse it is Rome’s job. That is the wrong answer, but too many of us have it. Why? Who knows. Poor catichesis, perhaps, or a desire not to cause waves. I have never baught into that, but it is the attitude none the less. For many years, Catholics have had an attitude that it is up to the Church to reach people. That the Church has the only responsibility to spread the Gospel. That was never Church doctrine, but I’ll bet that most Catholics beleive it today. Let the priests do it. Let them visit the sick. Let them reach out. It is not my vocation. Bull ****. A Catholic’s first vocation is to be a witness to the Truth, no matter their occupation. All of that said, you know what the biggest problem is in the Church? That we, as a group, are too lazy, indifferent, stupid, intellegent, unorganized, or whatever else, to truely be lights to the world. We will not teach ourselves or our children when we see the religious ed programs lacking. WE do not witness to each other. WE do not make an effort to involve each other in the community of the CHurch. We are poor examples of how to be Christains. And, we do not care, because we all have our reasons that it is not up to us to be the first.

All that said, do you know what it feels like to be told by a priest that we cannot have daily eucharistic adoration because it would be a burdon? Or that we cannot have daily mass because the last priest did not have it? Or that we do not need this or that group because the last time someone at another parish started that one up, it only led to problems or had no interst? All of these and more happen to Catholics daily who try to encorage growth in the Church. After a few times, most simply give up.

Now, I know that most of us on here are the exceptions, but I be that we all have these stories. There is some good news, though. The younger priests are in love with the faith. They are helping with the effort. Karl Keating and the others like him are a God send. It will get better, Bengals_Fan, and I hope you are a part of it.

 

[Little_Mary]

St. Theresa tried to please God in little ways that she knew how to do.

Bengal Fan, that is the only explanation that I can give you as to what I am doing as a Catholic to try and heat up all these lukewarm Catholics as you called them. I can see your point, but I’d like the record to show that all churches have the same problem. As a cradle Catholic I’ve always been very defensive of my faith but it was only as I got older (I’m 40 now:crying: ) that I’ve begun to live it in a better way , or at least try to. Now that I’ve grown a little in my spiritual life, I look back at my friends and family and I’m a little offended by how they are still leading their lives but I cannot say anything to them, for one, they wouldn’t listen and two, I am still a sinner and not any better than anybody else. All I can do is try to be a good Christian example whenever I can and talk to people as the opportunity arises. That’s my St. Theresa method. I’m also reminded of something Mother Angelica once said “There are those you can talk to about Jesus, and then there are those you should just be Jesus to” (paraphrase).

I’d love to have you in the ranks of Catholic defenders. Please join us. I’ll be praying for you.

Have you checked out the Coming Home Network yet with Marcus Grodi? You should contact him. I know he’d love to talk with you. He is a former Presbyterian minister.

 

[Little_Mary]

Bengal Fan, here it is if you don’t have it already. If you’ve already found this website please let me know and I’ll leave you alone about it

Marcus Grodi’s website can be found at www.chnetwork.org and they have a forum there as well

You can contact him at journeyhome@ewtn.com

You can also log on to ewtn.com and click the television menu then click on Journey Home for more information.

Check it out! :yup: :bounce:

 

[bengal_fan]

"I can’t remember the person, but it was in the Old Testament. God had directed someone to go into a city (or was this Acts?) and find 7 good people and God would spare the city if he could find them. That person pleaded with God, finally “bargaining” him down to only 1 good person…if he found 1 faithful person, he was asking that God spare the city, and God promised this."-JCPhoenix

just a funny observation, i think you are talking about sodom and the irony is that he couldn’t find even one so God did destroy the city. just funny i guess. i don’t mean to judge, i just wanted to point out that you can tell a lot about some one or something by the fruit they or it bears. people often say not to judge the church by the people but if i’m going to be one of those people i need to judge the church by the people.

raphinal : thank you for your honest post, now let’s hope it lights a fire under some people and priests. you are right also when you say the young priests are on the right track.

little mary: “Have you checked out the Coming Home Network yet with Marcus Grodi? You should contact him. I know he’d love to talk with you. He is a former Presbyterian minister.”

yes i have been there but haven’t contacted them yet. thanks for everyones prayers…

 

[fulloftruth]

Hello and may God bless you on your journey home!

You must remember that the church is made up of the children of God. And just like in every other household you have many different personalities, some who take there religious conviction seriously and others who do not. Fortunatley the Church is on a journey to perfect union with Christ and there will be some growing pains, in this family. God the father lets his children work out there problems and does not shield us from the suffering that goes with copmplacency and luke warmness. Too many people in the church were raised by parents who did not teach there children the value of the real presence and the power of a united church. You must remember it may take several generations to purge the American church of the penalty for abortion and many other sins that secularized Catholics have given way to. 50% of Catholics will vote for Kerry in the next election which is an abomination. It may take a few strong convicted generations too get rid of this liberal strain. But the Church herself will never let go of the moral truths that this century and the last finds repugnant. That is the beauty of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, she is guarded by the Holy Spirit from ever officially teaching error in terms of moral truths. That does not mean there won’t be bad evil Catholics who try to twist the teachings of the Church for evil. But that is why you must arm yourself with the truth of her teachings now.
Steve
Baltimore

 

[Emmaus]

**bengal_fan…**i see very few “catholics” whose faith is really a part of their lives.

Perhaps they don’t have saving faith, but a mere intellctual assent or a cultural faith.

they seem to be the ones who (and this was accused of protestants on a different thread) only spend 1 hour a week with God and the rest of the week they live for themselves. their language (meaning dirty words, course joking) is reprehensible for some one who claims Christ. they make the excuse that they can just go to confession when they sin so it’s not any big deal (protestants are accused of believing they can do anything and still go to heaven. while they do believe this, they also are in general moral people who try to follow Christ’s commands and have more accountability. now i know catholics claim that confession is the best accountability but if it is anonymous what is the motivation to change?). i have met very (and i really do stress VERY) few catholics who really live their faith. now i know not to judge the faith by the believers, but in a sense we are supposed to do just that.

To quote the Catechism:

1128 This is the meaning of the Church’s affirmation that the sacraments act ex opere operato (literally: “by the very fact of the action’s being performed”), i.e., by virtue of the saving work of Christ, accomplished once for all. It follows that “the sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God.” From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. **Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them. **

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s1c1a2.htm#IV

i also know that some of these people aren’t true believers while others haven’t been properly catechized. **but what do you all think of the rampant (and i do believe it is rampant) lack of faith of american catholics? ** it really has become a religion, a series of hoops to jump through for most of the people i have come into contact with. i know this is long but it is one of the obstacles keeping me from the catholic church.

I think in many cases it is just that, a lack of faith beyond a superficial assent. Some of it is lack of proper catechesis and some of it is old fashioned willfulness. And of course for most of us at any given moment our witness may fall far short of our profession. St. Peter pray for us!

God bless you on your journey.

 

[debi]

Converts and “reverts” are more likely to be more loudly involved in Church things. Catholics that have always lived the faith are more likely to be quietly doing just that. Catholics that are not really trying to live out their faith probably: have not been catechised properly as adults - probably when asked what their religion is answer Catholic because they believe once Catholic always Catholic…believe there is always time enough to start being a good Christian.,and often believe that it would be a lesser sin to be a “bad” Catholic than to join a different Church.

There are many different opportunities in our RCC to profess our faith, to learn about our faith and to evangelize - surely there is one to fit any personality if you are willing to tithe the time.

While there is certainly a good amount ot apathy or hypocricy within our ranks it should be remembered that bottom line is first you have to find that personal desire to follow Christ, than what your neighbors are doing (or not) does not become a distraction but rather an opportunity to evangelize.

 

[briand]

bengal_fan:

this is not intended to be mean spirited or judgmental. i just want to know what everyone thinks about this. i am a protestant minister considering joining the catholic church. i know the historical arguments, the scriptural arguments, and i’ve heard personal testimony from a number of people. but i had to get some response about my personal experience with catholics. now remember i said i am a protestant minister but i was raised catholic. i attended mass every sunday until i moved out of my parents home. i tried to experience God in church but either i didn’t understand what was going (which is most likely even though i asked many questions and went through CCD and confirmation) or was too distracted by the echoes of crying babies. anyway, in my experience (which was 19 years of mass, 4 years of parochial school, a very catholic mother and grandmother, and living in many different places attending a number of parishes, and having many friends who claim catholicism) i see very few “catholics” whose faith is really a part of their lives. they seem to be the ones who (and this was accused of protestants on a different thread) only spend 1 hour a week with God and the rest of the week they live for themselves.
snip.

Personally I can say that Catholics are faithful in the meaningful parts of life. I think that you can find alot of this in most faith groups. I was going to write a long story about my oppocite experience but most Protestants I have met are also faithful.

 

[Charlemagne]

bengal_fan:

they make the excuse that they can just go to confession when they sin so it’s not any big deal (protestants are accused of believing they can do anything and still go to heaven. while they do believe this, they also are in general moral people who try to follow Christ’s commands and have more accountability. now i know catholics claim that confession is the best accountability but if it is anonymous what is the motivation to change?).

Penance includes confessing one’s sins, doing acts of Penance (including the Penance assigned by the Priest in the confessional, but also acts of reparation for the effects on the soul of sins forgiven - purgatory - maybe best left for another post) and amending

one’s life! Yes, that’s right. You pledge to try to avoid sin and occasions of sin in the Act of Contrition you say in the confessional. To repeatedly commit the same sin(s) and confess them without at least trying to avoid them may be a sin in itself. Maybe someone else here can give me an assist with the details on that! You’re accountable to God and yourself when you confess - the Priest is a go-between.