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SPOKENWORD
Guest
MariaG, In reading your post you seem to make alot of assumptions. I believe you need to reevaluate your thoughts just because they are not catholic.You only assume and I only say this in the spirit of love…
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M
Melchior
Guest
I guess this is a spinoff questions to Bengal Fan. I have basically the same experiences that he has had. Though I am not a Minister. Up heah in the Ahch-Diocese of Boston most people I know are Catholic and the overwhelming majority could care less. The Evangelicals on the other hand really stand out. My big concern is this:
If I revert how do I raise my kids as devout Christians who follow the Lord as closely as Evangelcial kids in such an environment? If all there Catholic peers are “doing it”, and it can mean many things, how do they succeed without the support of like minded Catholic kids? I mean even if you se Catholicism as the fullness of the faith it still almost seems like better option for the sake of my kids to raise them in a devout Protestant community rather than a nominal Catholic one.
How do some of you Catholic parents deal with this? Are any of you successful?
Mel
If I revert how do I raise my kids as devout Christians who follow the Lord as closely as Evangelcial kids in such an environment? If all there Catholic peers are “doing it”, and it can mean many things, how do they succeed without the support of like minded Catholic kids? I mean even if you se Catholicism as the fullness of the faith it still almost seems like better option for the sake of my kids to raise them in a devout Protestant community rather than a nominal Catholic one.
How do some of you Catholic parents deal with this? Are any of you successful?
Mel
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MariaG
Guest
Hey spokenword,
What have I assumed? Please specify and I will certainly consider what you say, but I first need to know what you consider to my assumptions.
God Bless
P.S.
I reread what I posted and all of what I said was based on personal experience as Bengal_Fan’s is.
pps
Thanks for the encouraging words yesterday. They truly helped.:yup:
What have I assumed? Please specify and I will certainly consider what you say, but I first need to know what you consider to my assumptions.
God Bless
P.S.
I reread what I posted and all of what I said was based on personal experience as Bengal_Fan’s is.
pps
Thanks for the encouraging words yesterday. They truly helped.:yup:
M
MariaG
Guest
Mel,
As a revert and a Catholic parent, I do not just rely on CCD (Catholic Sunday School), to bring my children into a personal relationship with Christ. I also take my kids to interdenominational Vacation Bible schools. I talk and try to live my life so my children can see Christ in my life and talk honestly about people in our church who do not seem to reflect Christian living. We get into specifics: Do we worship Mary? NO. Does the priest forgive your sins? No, only God does. I don’t assume my children are learning just because they are in religion classes. I take the responsibility, as I promised in their Baptism, to teach them about Christ.
God Bless
As a revert and a Catholic parent, I do not just rely on CCD (Catholic Sunday School), to bring my children into a personal relationship with Christ. I also take my kids to interdenominational Vacation Bible schools. I talk and try to live my life so my children can see Christ in my life and talk honestly about people in our church who do not seem to reflect Christian living. We get into specifics: Do we worship Mary? NO. Does the priest forgive your sins? No, only God does. I don’t assume my children are learning just because they are in religion classes. I take the responsibility, as I promised in their Baptism, to teach them about Christ.
God Bless
J
Jennifer123
Guest
I know this is primarily directed to bengal_fan, but I do know of some resources for you to check out:
catholickidsnet.org/home.html - has the program K4J (Kids for Jesus) and ways you can bring a VBS (vacation bible school) to your parish. I’ve seen homeschoolers use this program with a lot of success.
lifeteen.org/ - there’s somewhat of a disagreement about this group the main complaint being liturgical with their LifeTeen mass, but from what I’ve seen the kids are very enthusiastic about their faith.
J
Jennifer123
Guest
Don’t want to belabor this too much, I know I’m thankful you’re reaching out towards truth!!!i guess my challenge (and this doesn’t apply to everyone out there nor to the person i quoted necessarily) is that it’s not just the priest’s or bishop’s job to win the lost, admonish the brethren, or “spur one another on towards love and good deeds” (Heb. 10:24), it is the job of every believer.
A very good point - I think Catholics need to take responsibility for their own knowledge of the faith and to act on their knowledge to bring one another into the fullness of faith, right?
this is a serious question for all of you: does it ever bother you that the most active catholics today when it comes to writing, apologetics, and a general spurring one another on are former protestants? do you ever wonder why there aren’t more like Karl Keating who is a cradle catholic and taking a lead in these efforts? that is the problem i am talking about. it seems it’s far harder for some on who is brought up catholic to see the riches in the church than for some one who decides to investigate the church from the outside. it again comes down to my point that people aren’t being inspired enough and so what are we going to do about it?
For me - it doesn’t bother me. I think it’s like everything else, you’ve had it and been exposed so long sometimes it gets taken for granted. It’s not a new experience. To me, it’s a miracle happening right before my eyes. Seeing God working in the Church, bringing in former non-Catholics to show us all the riches we’ve been given. It’s just spectacular. I don’t necessarily see it as an overt crisis of faith.
As for inspiration - I have to say I’m not sure. Sounds like you may have a calling?
just saying that there should be people so involved with the parish that they know when there is some one new. and if they make a mistake and welcome some one who is a member, then it is just another opportunity to meet some else in the parish).
I too wish that most parishes were more welcoming, but I see it mainly as a cultural difference. Most Protestants worship on Sunday reaching out to each other in fellowship. This is opposite of how Catholics worship on Sunday, reaching out to God. Not a judgement, but just an observation on the difference. Now as to how we can maybe bridge the gap a little b/c I do know what you are saying…I guess we in the know need to incorporate that in somehow.
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bengal_fan
Guest
real quick (as my last post was a short story):
i meant for this thread to be positive. a chance for you to talk about the wonderful things going on in your parishes that should be attractive to those who are not experiencing their faith. i did not intend to bash catholics or protestants. if people have gotten that impression from me (or any other post on a thread i started) i apologize. so let’s hear more of those things you are involved with and how you are reaching out to people. maybe even some stories would be good.
i meant for this thread to be positive. a chance for you to talk about the wonderful things going on in your parishes that should be attractive to those who are not experiencing their faith. i did not intend to bash catholics or protestants. if people have gotten that impression from me (or any other post on a thread i started) i apologize. so let’s hear more of those things you are involved with and how you are reaching out to people. maybe even some stories would be good.
Q
quasimodo
Guest
One thing that I have always said about the Church…you get out of it what you are willing to put into it. And if you actually do put yourself into it you get so much more in return.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Saying that catholics go to church more often then protestants while on vacation. How are you judging this statement? Let me guess, missing mass is a mortal sin? You really dont know, do you?
God Bless.
B
bengal_fan
Guest
spokenword,
i think she is correct in her assumption though. most catholics i know (even if they believe or not or are living a christian life or not) attend mass while on vacation (yes because they believe it is a mortal sin to miss if it’s possible to attend) while most protestants i know do not because they are very partial to their church. protestants on the other hand, study their bibles far more than catholics (i think we would all agree on this) and if they are on vacation they are probably still having their “quiet time”.
i think she is correct in her assumption though. most catholics i know (even if they believe or not or are living a christian life or not) attend mass while on vacation (yes because they believe it is a mortal sin to miss if it’s possible to attend) while most protestants i know do not because they are very partial to their church. protestants on the other hand, study their bibles far more than catholics (i think we would all agree on this) and if they are on vacation they are probably still having their “quiet time”.
Q
quasimodo
Guest
There are hypocrites in very church. There is only one that is any of my business.
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bengal_fan
Guest
very well said
J
Jennifer123
Guest
I wanted to clarify a point I made above. I realized my mental edit button wasn’t working this morning after I had posted!!Don’t want to belabor this too much, I know I’m thankful you’re reaching out towards truth!!!
I meant to observe the differences in Sunday worship b/t Protestants and Catholics and how that could lead to a distortion as to how we Catholics aren’t very welcoming - leading to a possible assumption that we aren’t living the life of Christ…
I meant to say that as Catholics we worship on Sunday in Mass reaching out to God in worhio. I didn’t mean to imply that Protestants don’t do the same, it’s just that it’s more of a horizontal relationship with the focus being reaching out to each other in fellowship.
Okay - sorry if I happened to imply that Protestants don’t worship God on Sunday!!!
J
Jennifer123
Guest
I think it’s true too if not b/c we fear mortal sin, it’s that it’s so much easier. The liturgy is the same, the communion is the same, being that we are “one body”. (For the most part - there may be subtle differences, but the Mass as a whole is the same 'round the world).
I think the Protestant experience is waaay different in that aspect. I know my relatives don’t go to another church when visiting us - they are comfortable with their service at their church. Anything else is uncomfortable, they may not agree with the service, they don’t know anyone, etc…
H
hlgomez
Guest
Bengal,
You consider singing to God as worship? True, but there is more higher worship than that—the highest of all worship–the sacrifice of the mass. There is nothing like it, that’s why it is considered a mortal sin to miss the mass on the grounds that it’s a violation of the first and 2nd of the 10 Commandments.
Do you have a mass like the Catholic Church? Certainly you don’t.
You consider singing to God as worship? True, but there is more higher worship than that—the highest of all worship–the sacrifice of the mass. There is nothing like it, that’s why it is considered a mortal sin to miss the mass on the grounds that it’s a violation of the first and 2nd of the 10 Commandments.
I agree with you, BUT do you all agree in what you believe? Look around you and see how many “bible believing” church you have made for yourselves.
B
bengal_fan
Guest
settle down hl,
did you read the rest of this thread or are you attacking me based on a single post that actually was supporting one of your catholic sisters. we are not here to debate protestant and catholic. we are here talking about what you as catholics are doing to spur your brothers and sisters on towards love and good deeds and to bring others into the church. your attitude (while it might not have been meant to do this) was very angry. yes, self-interpretation has caused a multitude of denominations to spring up. but you have to admit that there are a great number of catholics (and many who publish books, write in magazines, and more deplorably teach at catholic universities) who have fallen into the same trap. and even though they have not officially left the church, if this was 1530ad they would have been excommunicated faster that you can say “martin luther”. so don’t go all high and mighty on me.
wow, that was the harshest post i’ve done so far. it won’t be the norm but i felt very attacked for no good reason.
did you read the rest of this thread or are you attacking me based on a single post that actually was supporting one of your catholic sisters. we are not here to debate protestant and catholic. we are here talking about what you as catholics are doing to spur your brothers and sisters on towards love and good deeds and to bring others into the church. your attitude (while it might not have been meant to do this) was very angry. yes, self-interpretation has caused a multitude of denominations to spring up. but you have to admit that there are a great number of catholics (and many who publish books, write in magazines, and more deplorably teach at catholic universities) who have fallen into the same trap. and even though they have not officially left the church, if this was 1530ad they would have been excommunicated faster that you can say “martin luther”. so don’t go all high and mighty on me.
wow, that was the harshest post i’ve done so far. it won’t be the norm but i felt very attacked for no good reason.
1
1962Missal
Guest
I know that many protestants complain of the coldness and impersonal feeling at many Catholic churches. To offer this as an antidote.
Evangelical is not Enough
by Thomas Howard
Dr. Howard explains the reasons behind the absence of familiarity and overt fellowship in liturgical worship.
Justin
Evangelical is not Enough
by Thomas Howard
Dr. Howard explains the reasons behind the absence of familiarity and overt fellowship in liturgical worship.
Justin
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bengal_fan
Guest
have read and enjoyed the book. i am not talking about familiarity with worship. i am talking about being a body. most of the catholics i know go to church and leave and never interact (or seldom interact with anyone they don’t already know) with the people they have just “broken bread” with (see Acts 2). they should be committed to one another. if there is a need, it should be met by the church (isn’t this something that conservative politicians believe?). and protestant churches seem to do this a little better. so how do we foster this Acts 2 attitude?
J
Jennifer123
Guest
In light of cultural differences I’ve tried to put across - I think this is true. Being a Protestant minister - what advice could you give to us Catholics who want to minister in this area? What are your ideas?
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bengal_fan
Guest
jennifer,
only because you are beating me by one post (67-66) am i going to respond. just kidding, i appreciate the opportunity. first off, know that i now work for a parachurch organization that doesn’t deal with the things that divide denominations. we are committed to sharing the basics of Christianity and encouraging participation in one’s denomination. i think though, we need more catholic involevement in these organizations that are open to that. that way, catholics won’t be led from their church and might just come to understand what their church really teaches. so one thing i would recommend is that more catholics engage in organizations such as these. i would be happy to share mine with you privately as some people might have had a bad experience with certain individuals in mine and written it off totally when our staff is made up of about 15-20% catholics and have a deep desire not to “sheep steal”. if anyone else wants to know also, i would be happy to talk about it but i don’t want to hear about specific instances where a “paid staff or volunteer did such and such wrong and made my little billy leave the catholic church”. while i’m sure it’s happened (and that some one might have left one protestant denomination for another which many people have problems with) i don’t want to hear about it because it is against the policies of the organization as a whole. anyway, getting involved with these groups can be good. also, setting up a welcome/greeter program would be good. having people outside to greet people as they come in and leave (i know some priests do this after mass but i think making folks feel welcome from the start is best). also, instead of one big missal, printing one for each sunday (i don’t think this would be necessary for daily mass and could use the regular missal for that) that also had the protocol listed for non-catholics would be helpful. this would make some one feel more welcome even though they can’t participate in all of the mass, they would know and there would be no confusion. bible study groups within the congregation would be huge. evangelism! there is a church in cincinnati that has really thrown itself into “servant evangelism” which is where people go out and “show God’s love in a practical way”. this has varied from cleaning toilets in businesses (serving the people who work there), handing out cokes at the baseball games, to paying for everyone’s gas at a gas station for 2 hours on a saturday. all of this is done in the name of Jesus, and with an invitation to the church. there is no real active preaching, but the people are open to answering questions. the church is committed to teaching other churches in the area how to do it too. so much so that they print up cards with the other churches (Christian church i should specify, no unitarian, mormon or jw) info on them. they have even done this for a few catholic churches and those churches have really run with it! i think the best witness though is to the people you have a relationship with. and i am sure you can all think of a friend you have in church that is not really living or enjoying their faith. well, go after that person with all the love you have. open your homes, your wallets and your lives to them. i also think that adults who really and truly befriend the youth of a church can be some of the most influential people in the world. your church doesn’t have a youth program? start one. organize a trip to the stuebenville conferences, or just to the local mall. really be friends with them, not just a mentor although that becomes a part of it, but teens are smart enough to know if they are just a project to you or truly a friend. these are just a few suggestions, i’ll have more for you at another time.
only because you are beating me by one post (67-66) am i going to respond. just kidding, i appreciate the opportunity. first off, know that i now work for a parachurch organization that doesn’t deal with the things that divide denominations. we are committed to sharing the basics of Christianity and encouraging participation in one’s denomination. i think though, we need more catholic involevement in these organizations that are open to that. that way, catholics won’t be led from their church and might just come to understand what their church really teaches. so one thing i would recommend is that more catholics engage in organizations such as these. i would be happy to share mine with you privately as some people might have had a bad experience with certain individuals in mine and written it off totally when our staff is made up of about 15-20% catholics and have a deep desire not to “sheep steal”. if anyone else wants to know also, i would be happy to talk about it but i don’t want to hear about specific instances where a “paid staff or volunteer did such and such wrong and made my little billy leave the catholic church”. while i’m sure it’s happened (and that some one might have left one protestant denomination for another which many people have problems with) i don’t want to hear about it because it is against the policies of the organization as a whole. anyway, getting involved with these groups can be good. also, setting up a welcome/greeter program would be good. having people outside to greet people as they come in and leave (i know some priests do this after mass but i think making folks feel welcome from the start is best). also, instead of one big missal, printing one for each sunday (i don’t think this would be necessary for daily mass and could use the regular missal for that) that also had the protocol listed for non-catholics would be helpful. this would make some one feel more welcome even though they can’t participate in all of the mass, they would know and there would be no confusion. bible study groups within the congregation would be huge. evangelism! there is a church in cincinnati that has really thrown itself into “servant evangelism” which is where people go out and “show God’s love in a practical way”. this has varied from cleaning toilets in businesses (serving the people who work there), handing out cokes at the baseball games, to paying for everyone’s gas at a gas station for 2 hours on a saturday. all of this is done in the name of Jesus, and with an invitation to the church. there is no real active preaching, but the people are open to answering questions. the church is committed to teaching other churches in the area how to do it too. so much so that they print up cards with the other churches (Christian church i should specify, no unitarian, mormon or jw) info on them. they have even done this for a few catholic churches and those churches have really run with it! i think the best witness though is to the people you have a relationship with. and i am sure you can all think of a friend you have in church that is not really living or enjoying their faith. well, go after that person with all the love you have. open your homes, your wallets and your lives to them. i also think that adults who really and truly befriend the youth of a church can be some of the most influential people in the world. your church doesn’t have a youth program? start one. organize a trip to the stuebenville conferences, or just to the local mall. really be friends with them, not just a mentor although that becomes a part of it, but teens are smart enough to know if they are just a project to you or truly a friend. these are just a few suggestions, i’ll have more for you at another time.
- Status