Expert: homosexuality clearly a factor in new priest abuse data

[Robertanthony]

By definition? “Homo” simply means “same” as in attracted to people of the same gender**/age**, it says nothing about age. ".

Erratum. Mea culpa maxima. No “/age” belongs there. You can either blame it on me being tired when I wrote that or EmperorNapoleon’s persuasive/hypnotic powers.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

You have got to be kidding. Are we going down this road again?.

Yes, we are. The zealous fingerpointing in this thread at homosexuals has no scientific backing so there is no other explaination.

By your own admission, you’re an agnostic, so I’ll kindly remind you that this is a Catholic forum and Catholics are taught that homosexuality is disordered but not a sin per se unless homosexual activity occurs.

What Catholics regard as disordered has no bearing on this subject matter.

I don’t want to scapegoat homosexuals, but 81% of the abuses were homosexual acts (by definition at least, I hope you don’t entertain the frivolous thought of challenging that).And a homosexual could be defined as someone who engages in homosexual acts. Granted some might have been bisexuals or “gender-neutral” hebephile, but certainly not 99% of the 81%.

Indeed I shall challenge it. Sexual preference is not as black and white, between heterosexual and homosexual, as you seem to believe it is and it reders your assessment woefully incorrect. The following categories are assigned to sexual preference in the scientific community:

Fixated Heterosexual - Exclusively for adults of the opposite-sex
Fixated Bisexual - Exclusively for adults of both sexes
Fixated Homosexual - Exclusively for adults of the same-sex

Regressed Heterosexual - For adults and children of the opposite sex
Regressed Bisexual - For adults and children of the both sexes
Regressed Homosexual - For adults and children of the same sex

Fixated Hebephile - Exclusively for post-pubescent children with no regard to gender.
Opposite-sex attracted Hebephile - Exclusively for post-pubescent children of the opposite sex though the gender is a secondary factor.
Same and opposite-sex attracted Hebephile - For post-pubescent children of both sexes though the gender is a secondary factor.
Same-sex attracted Hebephile Exclusively for post-pubescent children of the same sex though the gender is a secondary factor.

Hebephelia is the primary sexual orientation represented in these crimes, Given the indisputible fact that same-sex hebephilia is exceedingly rare in the general population and the common gender segregation in Catholic institutions it was, in all probability, the fixated hebephiles which commited the vast majority of these crimes.

…based on one study. Well-done studies are great as they can add to the pre-existing knowledge but don’t go making ex cathedra statements based on one study.

Based on multiple studies. Groth and Birnbam, Jenny et al, Groth & Gary, etc

 

[Kolbe300]

Pax et Bonum, you posted a lengthy article about homosexual pedophiles. I thought this wasn’t about pedophilia? What am I missing here?

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

My error-I was tired and on a roll.I should not have included that.My apologies.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

Yes, we are. The zealous fingerpointing in this thread at homosexuals has no scientific backing so there is no other explaination.

What Catholics regard as disordered has no bearing on this subject matter.

Indeed I shall challenge it. Sexual preference is not as black and white, between heterosexual and homosexual, as you seem to believe it is and it reders your assessment woefully incorrect. The following categories are assigned to sexual preference in the scientific community:

Fixated Heterosexual - Exclusively for adults of the opposite-sex
Fixated Bisexual - Exclusively for adults of both sexes
Fixated Homosexual - Exclusively for adults of the same-sex

Regressed Heterosexual - For adults and children of the opposite sex
Regressed Bisexual - For adults and children of the both sexes
Regressed Homosexual - For adults and children of the same sex

Fixated Hebephile - Exclusively for post-pubescent children with no regard to gender.
Opposite-sex attracted Hebephile - Exclusively for post-pubescent children of the opposite sex though the gender is a secondary factor.
Same and opposite-sex attracted Hebephile - For post-pubescent children of both sexes though the gender is a secondary factor.
Same-sex attracted Hebephile Exclusively for post-pubescent children of the same sex though the gender is a secondary factor.

Hebephelia is the primary sexual orientation represented in these crimes, Given the indisputible fact that same-sex hebephilia is exceedingly rare in the general population and the common gender segregation in Catholic institutions it was, in all probability, the fixated hebephiles which commited the vast majority of these crimes.

Based on multiple studies. Groth and Birnbam, Jenny et al, Groth & Gary, etc

“What Catholics regard as disordered has no bearing on this subject matter.”
It sure as heck does.You are on a Catholic forum and Church teaching describes homosexual genital sex let alone any kind of hebephelia as intrinsically disordered.If you don’t like it-tough.Active homosexual sex is sinful as is active extra-marital heterosexual sex.I posted numerous studies with links that you blithely ignored because they are contra indicative of your agenda.You quote a study with no links.
And you have the chutzpah to refer to our argumentation as unscientific?You speak as an expert(I suspect apologist)and I have asked you for your qualifications and am met with deafening silence.

Just take a look at the latest scandal to hit the Church and tell me that isn’t homosexual hebephelia:

GENOA) — The latest sex-abuse case to rock the Catholic Church is unfolding in the archdiocese of an influential Italian Cardinal who has been working with Pope Benedict XVI on reforms to respond to prior scandals of pedophile priests.

Father Riccardo Seppia, a 51-year-old parish priest in the village of Sastri Ponente, near Genoa, was arrested last Friday, May 13, on pedophilia and drug charges. Investigators say that in tapped mobile-phone conversations, Seppia asked a Moroccan drug dealer to arrange sexual encounters with young and vulnerable boys. “I do not want 16-year-old boys but younger. Fourteen-year-olds are O.K. Look for needy boys who have family issues,” he allegedly said. Genoa Archbishop Angelo Bagnasco, who is the head of the Italian Bishops Conference, had been working with Benedict to establish a tough new worldwide policy, released this week, on how bishops should handle accusations of priestly sex abuse.
…

Read more: time.com/time/world/artic…#ixzz1Nmw9GmcQ

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It should read hebephelia not pedophelia-Hebephilia refers to the sexual preference for individuals in the early years of puberty (generally ages 11–14, though onset of puberty may vary).

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

“The zealous fingerpointing in this thread at homosexuals has no scientific backing”

Certainly none that agrees with your now quite apparent agenda.If you were debating in front of an audience you’d be laughed out of the room.

 

[po18guy]

“The zealous fingerpointing in this thread at homosexuals has no scientific backing”

Certainly none that agrees with your now quite apparent agenda.If you were debating in front of an audience you’d be laughed out of the room.

Your opponent thus identifies his deity as science. What does he mean, claiming agnostic? He’s a Scientific American thumping believer!

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

Your opponent thus identifies his deity as science. What does he mean, claiming agnostic? He’s a Scientific American thumping believer!

Lousy unscientific science at that.I think he gets his stuff from Psychology Today-purveyor of the latest Pop “Science”.

This horse is dead,N.E.;please stop beating it.You are in the wrong venue.Unlike you we submit to the teachings of the Church which are based on Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition and the Authority given Her by Christ.We also submit to common sense.

 

[po18guy]

Lousy unscientific science at that.I think he gets his stuff from Psychology Today-purveyor of the latest Pop “Science”.

This horse is dead,N.E.;please stop beating it.You are in the wrong venue.Unlike you we submit to the teachings of the Church which are based on Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition and the Authority given Her by Christ.We also submit to common sense.

Not to mention the original Napolean was a law unto himself, and actively sought to destroy the Church, kidnapping the Pope, among other abuses. The Pope did not die in exile - Napolean did, a lonely and broken man.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

Not to mention the original Napolean was a law unto himself, and actively sought to destroy the Church, kidnapping the Pope, among other abuses. The Pope did not die in exile - Napolean did, a lonely and broken man.

QUITE ironic.:thumbsup:

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

It sure as heck does.).

No it doesn’t. Morality isn’t the subject of this thread.

I posted numerous studies with links that you blithely ignored because they are contra indicative of your agenda.

I ignored it because they don’t support the figures the author presented. The authors of those studies lumped bisexual offenders in with same-sex attracted offenders. Its the oldest trick in the book; dont like the results? Just use the old “bisexual correction” to artificially inflate the number of same-sex attracted offenders in the study.

You quote a study with no links.

Here ya go.

And you have the chutzpah to refer to our argumentation as unscientific?You speak as an expert(I suspect apologist)and I have asked you for your qualifications and am met with deafening silence…

I’m scientifically literate. Thats the only qualification I need.

Just take a look at the latest scandal to hit the Church and tell me that isn’t homosexual hebephelia.

“Homosexual Hebephelia” is a contradiction of terms.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ “Nothing new here-move along…move along…”

Now you are becoming circuitous and becoming a bit of a bore.This is like arguing with my sixteen year old.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

Morality isn’t the subject of this thread.

You are quite correct IMMORALITY is.

 

[Robertanthony]

Same-sex attracted Hebephile Exclusively for post-pubescent children of the **same sex **though the gender is a secondary factor.

Do you sometimes pause to think instead of using scientific jargon that you don’t understand. “Exclusively” means “no other than” yet you write “gender is a secondary factor”. Coming from you I don’t see coherence, I see confusion and a stubborn will to push your agenda despite reality. “Homosexual” means just that “same” “sex”. It doesn’t matter if someone is 100% or 75% homosexual (doesn’t work that way except in Kinsey’s mind) a sexual act betwwen two people of the same sex/gender is a homosexual act. Still wondering what an agnostic gay apologist is doing in a Catholic forum?

 

[RobbyS]

Yes, prison populations are overrepresented and so there is a typical methodological issue of generalization to the overall population. Also, there is the problem of self-selection, as in most survey studies, in that those who volunteer as participants may already have a particular bias. I’m always wary of survey research for these reasons, as well as the definitional criteria and the content and wording of the questions. The researcher who uses this method has to be attentive to the pitfalls. Still, Kinsey’s findings are intriguing since they show that sexuality is much more complicated than what had been previously believed by psychologists and psychiatrists. The continuum notion of sexual attraction is one such finding: that is, the relatively simple division into heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual was found to be inadequate.

I have always been uncomfortable with the term “heterosexual,” which seems to me an artificial term that helps create the illusion that there exists a distinct natural group know as “homosexuals.” If it exists, it is largely a matter of self-identification, of self-image. Of course in general terms, lust is pretty indiscriminate. The list of sexual objects is pretty long.

 

[po18guy]

I have always been uncomfortable with the term “heterosexual,” which seems to me an artificial term that helps create the illusion that there exists a distinct natural group know as “homosexuals.” If it exists, it is largely a matter of self-identification, of self-image. Of course in general terms, lust is pretty indiscriminate. The list of sexual objects is pretty long.

Good point. In biology, among living creatures, there is only sexual and asexual reproduction. And, the use of reproductive organs is biologically intended for furtherance of the species. Those of us who choose to reproduce are merely “sexual”. All other use of one’s reproductive system is a disorder of one type or another. Having said this, since we are all fallen creatures, we each have our own disorders. However, I will not join or form a pressure group to press for acceptance of my particular disorder. I am called to recognize it and combat it.

Moving from the methodology of reproduction to the methodology of sensory pleasure, perhaps there are only homopleasurists, heteropleasurists and bi-pleasurists…

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

“Exclusively” means “no other than” yet you write “gender is a secondary factor”.

The primary factor for hebephiles is the age of their victim and, for hebephiles with a gender preference, the gender is secondary. Hebephiles have no adult relationships so if given the choice between an adult male or female and nothing at all they will choose nothing. Exclusively for post-pubescent children and the secondary gender factor is not a contradiction of terms,.

It doesn’t matter if someone is 100% or 75% homosexual (doesn’t work that way except in Kinsey’s mind) a sexual act betwwen two people of the same sex/gender is a homosexual act.

Wrong. The classification of the act depends entirely on the orientation of those performing it. There’s no such thing as a 75% homosexual. A sexual act between two people of the same-sex is either a bisexual, homosexual, or fixated (depending on the age) act.

 

[Robertanthony]

Same-sex attracted Hebephile Exclusively for post-pubescent children of the same sex though the gender is a secondary factor.

If I were to poll people and ask if this sentence makes sense or if the last part clearly is at odds with the 1st part, what would the result be? But you don’t seem too impressed with percentages and would be quick to call it a sophism, because it’s easier to do that to defend an indefendable position than to reconsider position, especially if one has an agenda. I presume if we were to discuss agnosticism, you’d come up with an outlandish definition of it (that strangely no-one but you has ever heard) and always find a convenient way out of any discussion by redefining terms. Reality is what it is even if it makes you cringe or gives ammunitions to ill-willed people. You want to protect a minority that is at times victimized but at the expense of reality.

 

[Pax_et_Bonum]

Gibberish meant to obfuscate and confuse the issue.Pretentious and pseudo articulateness never wins an argument.It just illustrates how bereft of value your argumentation is.The Emperor wears no clothes.

 

[1holycatholic]

The political and historical context of the early Catholic Church has changed significantly. Once it was a prudent idea, that priest should not get married, but today I don’t think this way too much any more. If a priest wants to get married - God Bless him. Personally I garner better insight into my family and marriage talking with our married Deacon. He knows firsthand where I am coming from and often times he’s been there/done that. I have always studied the Bible but for me it did not truly come alive until I got married. Once I became a Daddy, well the illumination was blinding. I like the way the Orthodox Church approaches it… why can’t we be the same? It’s been said before, St. Peter was married, nuff said.

Clergy in Eastern Orthodoxy can’t get married.