Explosive Revelations about Homosexual Teachers in Canadian Catholic Schools

[Cari]

if a priest would talk about anti-homosexuality or campaign against homosexuality during homily, do you think the family members of a gay/lesbian who understand and accept his/her condition would attend the next sunday mass?

There is a difference between accepting your child and accepting the sins of your child. If the family memebers in the scenario were faithful to Church teachings, then yes, I think they would attend next Sunday’s Mass, as they understand that the church does not view homosexuals as sinful, but rather the homosexual act.

**if god did not create homosexuals/bisexuals, there wouldn’t have been any. **

God did not create death, yet it exists. God did not create murder, yet we have it. God did not create infidelity, spousal abuse, or any one in the long list of humanity’s sins. God created the person, our fallen nature created the willingness to act on sin.

LGBs exist because it’s a natural phenomenon.

There are plenty of studies to prove both sides to the “being homosexual is genetic” arguement. Check out the head scientist on the Human Genome project’s findings.
lifesite.net/ldn/2007/mar/07032003.html However, it could be argued that having a short temper is a natural phenomenon- does that make acts committed out of anger something society should accept?

heterosexuals don’t fall for species of their kind easily or naturally just as lesbians and gays don’t have the tendency to be attracted to opposite gender.

I don’t understand…what does falling “for species of their kind” mean?

wanting heterosexuals to understand this human nature is like asking an ordinary person to explain why skunks stink while other mammals don’t.

Why skunks stink: theanswerbank.co.uk/Article1402.html

I know that wasn’t your point, I just wanted to find the answer. However, all people have the chance to understand this particular aspect of human nature through the Church’s teachings. The homosexual act exists, like all sexual acts outside of the marital embrace, because of sin. Just like premarital sex, masturbation, adultry, and lustful, contraceptive sex within marriage, the gift of human sexuality can be corrupted and warped by sin. It is a hard teaching, but it is a hard teaching that applies to ALL humans, homosexual, straight, married or single. Just check out some of the threads about contraception within marriage!

homosexuality is not a disease to be treated but a phenomenon that is supposed to be explained so that people may understand, appreciate, and live it.

Homosexuals need to be understood and appreciated, as do all of God’s people. Homosexuality, however, is a sin, and as Christians we are not called to appreciate and live in sin, but rather turn from it.

do we have to remind ourselves that every living organism is unique in some way as a result of diversity in nature? even wild animals are given welfare. so why shouldn’t we accept homosexuals and give them the right to live they way it’s supposed to be?

“The way it’s supposed to be” according to whose plan? Human plans? As a Catholic, I will try to live according to God’s plan. Will I mess up? Yes. Will I fall into sin? I’ll try not to, but I will. Will I repent of that sin, confess, and ask for the grace to avoid it in the future? Yes. Should I revel in my sin, refusing to view it as such, and demanding that the rest of society accept and embrace my sinful acts? No.

do homosexuals have to change to be accepted in the community? why should a person live with a man/woman he/she doesn’t love at all?

All people are called to overcome their sinful nature, not just homosexuals. We are all called to change to fall into line with God’s plan. All of us. It is a struggle for me to live faithfully to the Church’s teachings on contraception within marriage, yet I do it, with the abundant grace of God. It is a struggle for some to overcome their addiction to pornography, yet they do it, with the abundant grace of God. All of us have crosses we are asked to bear, not just homosexuals.

And not all people, not even all hetrosexual people, are called to marriage. So you’re right, a person shouldn’t live with a spouse he doesn’t love at all. That would also be counter to God’s plan.

 

[maphie]

the church does not view homosexuals as sinful, but rather the homosexual act.

• so what’s the big deal about not wanting homosexuals to teach in catholic schools? they shouldn’t have been hired in the first place… but still, there are many homosexual teachers in catholic schools. they are not terminated because they are not doing any immoral acts.

All people are called to overcome their sinful nature, not just homosexuals

see? everyone has a sinful nature… it’s not just fair to blame all sinful acts to homosexuals. the first sinners are actually heterosexuals as it is stated in the bible.

All people are called to overcome their sinful nature, not just homosexuals. We are all called to change to fall into line with God’s plan. All of us. It is a struggle for me to live faithfully to the Church’s teachings on contraception within marriage, yet I do it, with the abundant grace of God. It is a struggle for some to overcome their addiction to pornography, yet they do it, with the abundant grace of God. All of us have crosses we are asked to bear, not just homosexuals.

you are making it clear that not only homosexuals commit sins but also heterosexuals. i hope this is clear to others. there’s nothing to argue about this. immorality depends on a person and not the sexual orientation.

btw, if straight men don’t like men, gays don’t like women. should you stop people from falling in love because it’s not right as the church suggests, repress their feelings because the church wants it, let them live in solitude while they can be happy with another person?

 

[Cari]

• so what’s the big deal about not wanting homosexuals to teach in catholic schools? they shouldn’t have been hired in the first place… but still, there are many homosexual teachers in catholic schools. they are not terminated because they are not doing any immoral acts.

see? everyone has a sinful nature… it’s not just fair to blame all sinful acts to homosexuals. the first sinners are actually heterosexuals as it is stated in the bible.

you are making it clear that not only homosexuals commit sins but also heterosexuals. i hope this is clear to others. there’s nothing to argue about this. immorality depends on a person and not the sexual orientation.

Maphie,

I think we are both agreeing on a lot of important issues, the first being that it’s not fair nor logical to blame all sinful acts on homosexuals. I don’t think anyone’s posts alluded to this. However, I think we both got sidetracked from the OP’s point. If I understand it correctly, the original point was about homosexual teachers in Canadian Catholic schools.
Since the legalization of homosexual “marriage” in Canada, a whole slew of other issues and problems has come to light. The one in question being about the promotion of a concept (homosexual “marriage”), contrary to Church teachings, being brought to light in Canadian Catholic schools.

The question being, how does one reconcile the laws of the State (legally recognized homosexual “marriage”) with the laws of the Church? Particularly in the case of teachers who had positions in Catholic schools before the change in Canada’s laws.

That was the original topic. I apologize if my comments have hijacked the thread. I agree with you 100%, Maphie, that homosexuals and hetrosexuals have sinful natures.

• so what’s the big deal about not wanting homosexuals to teach in catholic schools? they shouldn’t have been hired in the first place… but still, there are many homosexual teachers in catholic schools. they are not terminated because they are not doing any immoral acts.

The big deal, to bring this back (I hope) the the original topic, is about allowing homosexuals, in a country that now recognizes their lifestyle and “marriages” as legally protected, to teach children in a setting where those very things are considered sinful. It is a clash of secular morality vs. religious morality.

As for the termination due to immoral acts, I think another poster mentioned morality clauses in teaching contracts.

Sorry for the tangent on this thread!
C

 

[maphie]

Would you have the same opinion about somebody who volunteered at an abortion clinic? How about somebody that was an athiest?

why did you ask these questions? is your answer yes? abortionists and athiests are absolutely different from being homosexuals. y do you have to include these things?

(assuming they were active homosexuals)

you don’t even know them, yet you suspect them to be sinners… who are you to judge? do you think pettiness makes you a perfect christian?

 

[maphie]

thanks cari for making things clear… i appreciate everything you said.

administrators definitely would not hire a person who does not conform with the school’s moral turpitude… so let us give everyone the chance to pursue his/career or passion in life as long as they are not doing anything bad in the eyes of the church…

 

[Adonis33]

why did you ask these questions? is your answer yes? abortionists and athiests are absolutely different from being homosexuals. y do you have to include these things?

you don’t even know them, yet you suspect them to be sinners… who are you to judge? do you think pettiness makes you a perfect christian?

I incuded all those things because they are all offenseve to God.

By the way - thanks for the personal attack. I notice you keep harping about people being “judgemental”, yet the only person doing the insulting on this thread is you. Speaking of hypocricy…

 

[Adonis33]

thanks cari for making things clear… i appreciate everything you said.

administrators definitely would not hire a person who does not conform with the school’s moral turpitude… so let us give everyone the chance to pursue his/career or passion in life as long as they are not doing anything bad in the eyes of the church….

That’s the point! Living a homosexual lifestyle goes against Catholic teaching.

 

[maphie]

"thanks for the personal attack" im sorry if you feel this way… i didn’t mean to insult anyone. but i believe truth hurts.

i’ve nothing else to say since you finally agreed:
That’s the point! Living a homosexual lifestyle goes against Catholic teaching.

i hope i’m getting your statement right. being is different from doing so it is not fair to treat all homosexuals as sinners if they’re not doing any crime…homosexuality is never a sin and homosexuals are not offensive to god. it’s the bad things people (of any gender and sexual orientation) do which is not appealing to god.

 

[Adonis33]

"thanks for the personal attack" im sorry if you feel this way… i didn’t mean to insult anyone. but i believe truth hurts.

i’ve nothing else to say since you finally agreed:
That’s the point! Living a homosexual lifestyle goes against Catholic teaching.

i hope i’m getting your statement right. being is different from doing so it is not fair to treat all homosexuals as sinners if they’re not doing any crime…homosexuality is never a sin and homosexuals are not offensive to god. it’s the bad things people (of any gender and sexual orientation) do which is not appealing to god.

Wow “but the truth hurts” - You certainly have not been expressing any Catholic truths, so I have no idea what “truth” you are referring to.

I don’t know how you define Homosexuality - But here is a definition:

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty /ˌhoʊhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/...ico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngti, or, especially Brit., -ˌsɛkshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hoh-m*uh-sek-shoo-al-i-tee, or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one’s own sex.
[Origin: 1890–95; http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=homo-”]homo- + sexualityhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

I bolded the important part for you - Homosexuality is the desire **or **behavior.

I think we have gotten a little away from the OP.

 

[maphie]

I have no idea what “truth” you are referring to.

the truth that you think you’re personally attacked when you quoted me talking about your suspicion because you assume all my teahcers were active homosexuals. if it isn’t true (that you think they are like that and because you kept on talking about the sins a person can do), you wouldn’t have reacted…i was just expressing my opinion and you felt insulted? i have nothing against you. i respect what you believe in…i was just asking… so don’t feel you are attacked if somebody says “who are you to judge homosexuals?” because you really don’t know how good or bad they are.
“assuming” means accepting without verification or proof (sage dictionary) do you treat people based on your assumptions?

i was very clear from the start about some homosexuals who could teach because they can and they also have decent lives. then you focused on all kinds of sins. why are you preoccupied about people’s sins? you must be a saint if you have not committed a single sin… perhaps you can send your bibliography to the church that they may recognize you as a perfect being. i don’t know if you are listening to a priests’ prayer during the mass, “look not at our sins but on the faith of your church…” it means that people may commit sins but what important is that they repent and do good things, live in accordance with the wil of god… do you need to overemphasize and reiterate that they have sinned and they are sinners and they are committing sins you are not and you are perfect and you are not doing anything wrong?

we don’t have to talk about sins… i was talking about homosexuals who like to teach because they want to help others. again and again… i’d say there are many homosexuals who teach in catholic schools. they are in catholic schools because they are qualified and follow the moral standards of the school…
as cari said: “it’s a clash of secular morality vs. religious morality.” so it depends on the school administrators to decide… if they find a person promiscous and harassing children and other people, then they should not hire homosexuals for that.

 

[maphie]

God did not create death, yet it exists. God did not create murder, yet we have it. God did not create infidelity, spousal abuse, or any one in the long list of humanity’s sins. God created the person, our fallen nature created the willingness to act on sin.

"for everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible,… everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him." – Colossians 1:16

 

[goofyjim]

Wow “but the truth hurts” - You certainly have not been expressing any Catholic truths, so I have no idea what “truth” you are referring to.

I don’t know how you define Homosexuality - But here is a definition:

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty /ˌhoʊhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/...ico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngti, or, especially Brit., -ˌsɛkshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hoh-m*uh

-sek-shoo-al-i-tee, or, especially Brit., -seks-yoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one’s own sex.
[Origin: 1890–95; http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=homo-”]homo- + sexualityhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

I bolded the important part for you - Homosexuality is the desire **or **behavior.

I think we have gotten a little away from the OP.

I find it sinful in the behavior but not in the desire.

 

[jdnation]

"for everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible,… everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him." – Colossians 1:16

You are confused here. Everything was created by God. But since the Fall in the Garden of Eden nature and man has become corrupted and fallen. Therefore even if homosexual inclinations are natural then they are as natural as any other sin and temptation. God will allow these mistakes and corruptions to exist until the day He judges the world and restores it to it’s original state. Homosexuals are not some special group of people and their behavior is as bad as contraception, masturbation or beastiality. All those behaviors and sexual practices prevent the conception of life and only further selfish pleasure. God the Creator of the world has given us laws about how the original state of creation as He intended it should function. You, on the other hand are a simple human being who is falliable and unable to grasp the full scope of the world or what you are attempting to criticize. Who should I listen to? God who created the world and His instructions given to man and His Church? Or you, whoever you are…? Not that I want to be rude, but these are things you should seriously consider.

 

[Holly3278]

School is not the place for teachers to be outing themselves. Homosexuals shouldn’t even be allowed to teach our children. They don’t need to be around our children! Disgusting!

 

[goofyjim]

School is not the place for teachers to be outing themselves. Homosexuals shouldn’t even be allowed to teach our children. They don’t need to be around our children! Disgusting!

As long as they are not outing themselves I see no reason why they cannot teach in other capacities such as English, Math or Science.

 

[jdnation]

As long as they are not outing themselves I see no reason why they cannot teach in other capacities such as English, Math or Science.

Agreed, however, do realize that it isn’t anything new for certain groups of people to infiltrate organizations and attempt to stir up trouble and cause controversy from the inside. It’s an old and incredibly effective tactic.

Even if this is not their motive, knowing human beings, they may feel motivated to spread their point of view that is contrary to Catholic teachings in private with students or even with their class as a whole in public. Many Catholic students from my personal experience already succumb to heretic ideas and immoral justifications and are just plain ignorant about Catholicism and we certainly don’t need to risk having teachers who live and believe in their lifestyles that are contrary to Christian morality. Despite their sincereity not to let their personal beliefs get in the way of their teaching math or science etc. It is still incredibly risky.

This is much the same argument as allowing homosexuals, or alcoholics or anyone with a troubling history into the priesthood. Even if they are sincere, you take the risk, they, being human, fail, scandals occur, and the faith as a whole is lambasted by the media, and that makes the Church’s job and reputation that much more difficult.

Therefore it is necessary to restrict certain people from certain positions, particularly when young impressionable rebellious children are involved. Yes this IS discrimination, but practical discrimination. We discriminate all the time and for good reasons, and this is one of them. To be a fighter pilot in the air force demanded that pilots have 20/20 perfect vision (I don’t know what it’s like now in this age of laser surgery and contact lenses but I believe perfect vision is much preferred). The Air Force is not going to place the security of the nation and a multi-million dollar state of teh art aricraft into the hands of a person who does not meet their requirements. Even astronaughts go through rigirous testing. These are extreme examples, yes, but we should also apply the same amount of dedication for who we choose to raise our children in proper faith and morality that could decide their eternal salvation.

But I call not for discrimination of a person who is homosexual, but discrimination against those who do not believe or profess in Catholic morality from teaching in Catholic Schools as greatly as possible. A homosexual who professes the Catholic faith and attempts to live by it by abstaining from same-sex relations is perfectly fine. Having severe penalties against those who are given teaching positions but speak out against or undermine Catholic morality is also a good idea.

 

[maphie]

i’m talking about the existence of LGBs and not the immoral acts…

Homosexuals are not some special group of people and their behavior is as bad as contraception, masturbation or beastiality.

so you think you’re special? aren’t these behaviors also done by heterosexuals? isn’t contraception practiced by heterosexuals who cannot control themselves, etc. etc…?

anyone can commit sins… it depends on the person… not sexual orientation…

 

[maphie]

School is not the place for teachers to be outing themselves. Homosexuals shouldn’t even be allowed to teach our children. They don’t need to be around our children! Disgusting!

did anyone force you to enrol your child in a school with LGB teachers? duh!

no place is perfect for anywho… no face is perfect for anywho, no profession is perfect for anywho… no body is perfect for anywhoo…

just make sure no one’s a homo/bi in your clan…

 

[maphie]

Many Catholic students from my personal experience already succumb to heretic ideas and immoral justifications and are just plain ignorant about Catholicism and we certainly don’t need to risk having teachers who live and believe in their lifestyles that are contrary to Christian morality.

who runs those schools? priests? nuns? phd teachers? are all of them in those schools you’re talking about LGBs and no one’s straight?

 

[maphie]

Many Catholic students from my personal experience already succumb to heretic ideas and immoral justifications and are just plain ignorant about Catholicism and we certainly don’t need to risk having teachers who live and believe in their lifestyles that are contrary to Christian morality.

who runs those schools? priests? nuns? phd teachers? are ALL OF THEM or at least majority in those schools you’re talking about LGBs and no one’s straight?

my teachers were gay (2 of them) but they didn’t teach us immorality… do we really have to accuse them? i saw worse things from some of the straight teachers i had… gossip, laziness, working without liking what they are doing, insulting and punishing a student in front of the class… one hetero teacher even married thrice…

But I call not for discrimination of a person who is homosexual, but discrimination against those who do not believe or profess in Catholic morality from teaching in Catholic Schools as greatly as possible.

how could they be admitted if they’re not catholics? are you saying that catholic school administrators are wrong when they hire LGB teachers?

A homosexual who professes the Catholic faith and attempts to live by it by abstaining from same-sex relations is perfectly fine. Having severe penalties against those who are given teaching positions but speak out against or undermine Catholic morality is also a good idea.

ditto. END OF DISCUSSION