'Extra/other doctrines"?

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Uh, Ok. I am not going to go there, but for the record, I disagree.

Indulgences and treasury of merit?
**Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord hath anointed me: he hath sent me to preach to the meek, to heal the contrite of heart, and to preach a release to the captives, and deliverance to them that are shut up.

Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.**

We’ll have to pick it up again tomorrow. The city of Angels is 3 hours behind me…
 
**Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord hath anointed me: he hath sent me to preach to the meek, to heal the contrite of heart, and to preach a release to the captives, and deliverance to them that are shut up.

Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.**

We’ll have to pick it up again tomorrow. The city of Angels is 3 hours behind me…
No problem.

Is there a source I can confirm that these scriptural choices you are giving me are somehow offically authorized, or are these just off the top of your head?
 
What is the GOOD NEWS message from our Lord Jesus Christ, if not that we were again redeemable to become again GOD’S spiritual children…both Jew and Gentile? He preached the news, as the WORD (Son of GOD) about how humanity is to live within GOD’S LAWS towards the PATH OF RETURN, after Death…we were to strive in living so we would become IMMORTAL in SPIRIT…What do you believe was his message and teaching? Regarding Indulgences…I stand back and ask myself how Jesus Christ would have reacted to this…per definition: “Remission of a debt or tax; Release from captivity or punishment; Remission of a temporal punishment due to sin; The guilt of which has been forgiven”…As this was not something Christ and the Apostles either preached or practiced, I find it hard to believe this would be acceptable in their eyes now…I want to know your opinions of the DEAD SEA SCROLLS and the ESSENES…
 
I’m not sure I understand your question or point. Transubstantiation is the change of bread and wine into the body and blood.

We both know the scriptures referencing the bread and wine that Christ said, ‘This is my body…this is my blood.’ If you’re looking for an argument of transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation, scriptures do not reflect that Christ told us, ‘This is my body, with the bread…this is by blood with the wine.’ Either way, I think we’d both have to agree with each other’s belief, in that it is from an interpretation of scriptures and not something that is ‘extra’ or non-Biblical. 🤷

You want us to understand Jesus is being literal when He stood before His disciples with the bread and wine; you want us to believe these elements became His Body and His Blood. Ror that to happen, some of His Flesh and some of His Blood would have to leave His Body (still not crucified) and that doesn’t make sense (not that God has to make sense to me). It would be doing something prohibited by the Law - eating human flesh and drinking human blood.​

Then there’s the verse where Jesus told His disciples to cut off their hands and poke out their eyes if they cause the disciple to sin. Sounds literal to me. Do you know anyone who has obeyed those commands by the Lord? I hope not. Of course Jesus was illustrating how bad sin is. BTW, I don’t think the eye or hand can cause us to sin; it’s our wicked heart (mind) that causes us to sin.
 

You want us to understand Jesus is being literal when He stood before His disciples with the bread and wine; you want us to believe these elements became His Body and His Blood. Ror that to happen, some of His Flesh and some of His Blood would have to leave His Body (still not crucified) and that doesn’t make sense (not that God has to make sense to me). It would be doing something prohibited by the Law - eating human flesh and drinking human blood.​

Then there’s the verse where Jesus told His disciples to cut off their hands and poke out their eyes if they cause the disciple to sin. Sounds literal to me. Do you know anyone who has obeyed those commands by the Lord? I hope not. Of course Jesus was illustrating how bad sin is. BTW, I don’t think the eye or hand can cause us to sin; it’s our wicked heart (mind) that causes us to sin.
Christ did speak symbolically about food and each time explained what He meant.

**Joh 4:31 In the mean time, the disciples prayed him, saying: Rabbi, eat.
Joh 4:32 But he said to them: I have meat to eat which you know not.
Joh 4:33 The disciples therefore said one to another: Hath any man brought him to eat?
Joh 4:34 Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, that I may perfect his work.

Mat 16:5 And when his disciples were come over the water, they had forgotten to take bread.
Mat 16:6 Who said to them: Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Mat 16:7 But they thought within themselves, saying: Because we have taken no bread.
Mat 16:8 And Jesus knowing it, said: Why do you think within yourselves, O ye of little faith, for that you have no bread?
Mat 16:9 Do you not yet understand, neither do you remember the five loaves among five thousand men, and how many baskets you took up?
Mat 16:10 Nor the seven loaves, among four thousand men, and how many baskets you took up?
Mat 16:11 Why do you not understand that it was not concerning bread I said to you: Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then they understood that he said not that they should beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.**

In John 6, Christ spoke about eating His flesh and drinking His blood. When His disciples found the teaching hard, He did not explain any symbolism.

Joh 6:60 (6:61) Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard; and who can hear it?
Joh 6:61 (6:62) But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?


When many of His disciples left Him and walked with Him no more, Christ did not stop them and explain any symbolism, He turned to His Apostles and asked them a question.

Joh 6:66 (6:67) After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 (6:68) Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?


The Bible has several examples of eating flesh and drinking blood and each time it was symbolically representing ‘assaulting’. We know Christ was not telling His disciples and Apostles to ‘assault’ Him.

**Psa 14:4 Shall not all they know that work iniquity, who devour my people as they eat bread?

Isa 9:18 For wickedness is kindled as a fire, it shall devour the brier and the thorn: and shall kindle in the thicket of the forest, and it shall be wrapped up in smoke ascending on high.
Isa 9:19 By the wrath of the Lord of hosts the land is troubled, and the people shall be as fuel for the fire: no man shall spare his brother.
Isa 9:20 And he shall turn to the right hand, and shall be hungry: and shall eat on the left hand, and shall not be filled: every one shall eat the flesh of his own arm: Manasses Ephraim, and Ephraim Manasses, and they together shall be against Juda.

Isa 49:26 And I will feed thy enemies with their own flesh: and they shall be made drunk with their own blood, as with new wine: and all flesh shall know, that I am the Lord that save thee, and thy Redeemer the Mighty One of Jacob.

Mic 3:3 Who have eaten the flesh of my people, and have flayed their skin off them: and have broken, and chopped their bones as for the kettle, and as flesh in the midst of the pot.

2Sa 23:15 And David longed, and said: O that some man would get me a drink of the water out of the cistern, that is in Bethlehem, by the gate.
2Sa 23:16 And the three valiant men broke through the camp of the Philistines, and drew water out of the cistern of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and brought it to David: but he would not drink, but offered it to the Lord,
2Sa 23:17 Saying: The Lord be merciful to me, that I may not do this: shall I drink the blood of these men that went, and the peril of their lives? therefore he would not drink. These things did these three mighty men.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And I wondered, when I had seen her, with great admiration.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest in the beast: These shall hate the harlot and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and shall burn her with fire.**
 
Christ did speak symbolically about food and each time explained what He meant.

**Joh 4:31 In the mean time, the disciples prayed him, saying: Rabbi, eat.
Joh 4:32 But he said to them: I have meat to eat which you know not.
Joh 4:33 The disciples therefore said one to another: Hath any man brought him to eat?
Joh 4:34 Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, that I may perfect his work.

Mat 16:5 And when his disciples were come over the water, they had forgotten to take bread.
Mat 16:6 Who said to them: Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Mat 16:7 But they thought within themselves, saying: Because we have taken no bread.
Mat 16:8 And Jesus knowing it, said: Why do you think within yourselves, O ye of little faith, for that you have no bread?
Mat 16:9 Do you not yet understand, neither do you remember the five loaves among five thousand men, and how many baskets you took up?
Mat 16:10 Nor the seven loaves, among four thousand men, and how many baskets you took up?
Mat 16:11 Why do you not understand that it was not concerning bread I said to you: Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then they understood that he said not that they should beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.**

In John 6, Christ spoke about eating His flesh and drinking His blood. When His disciples found the teaching hard, He did not explain any symbolism.

Joh 6:60 (6:61) Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard; and who can hear it?
Joh 6:61 (6:62) But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?


When many of His disciples left Him and walked with Him no more, Christ did not stop them and explain any symbolism, He turned to His Apostles and asked them a question.

Joh 6:66 (6:67) After this, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 (6:68) Then Jesus said to the twelve: Will you also go away?


The Bible has several examples of eating flesh and drinking blood and each time it was symbolically representing ‘assaulting’. We know Christ was not telling His disciples and Apostles to ‘assault’ Him.

**Psa 14:4 Shall not all they know that work iniquity, who devour my people as they eat bread?

Isa 9:18 For wickedness is kindled as a fire, it shall devour the brier and the thorn: and shall kindle in the thicket of the forest, and it shall be wrapped up in smoke ascending on high.
Isa 9:19 By the wrath of the Lord of hosts the land is troubled, and the people shall be as fuel for the fire: no man shall spare his brother.
Isa 9:20 And he shall turn to the right hand, and shall be hungry: and shall eat on the left hand, and shall not be filled: every one shall eat the flesh of his own arm: Manasses Ephraim, and Ephraim Manasses, and they together shall be against Juda.

Isa 49:26 And I will feed thy enemies with their own flesh: and they shall be made drunk with their own blood, as with new wine: and all flesh shall know, that I am the Lord that save thee, and thy Redeemer the Mighty One of Jacob.

Mic 3:3 Who have eaten the flesh of my people, and have flayed their skin off them: and have broken, and chopped their bones as for the kettle, and as flesh in the midst of the pot.

2Sa 23:15 And David longed, and said: O that some man would get me a drink of the water out of the cistern, that is in Bethlehem, by the gate.
2Sa 23:16 And the three valiant men broke through the camp of the Philistines, and drew water out of the cistern of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and brought it to David: but he would not drink, but offered it to the Lord,
2Sa 23:17 Saying: The Lord be merciful to me, that I may not do this: shall I drink the blood of these men that went, and the peril of their lives? therefore he would not drink. These things did these three mighty men.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And I wondered, when I had seen her, with great admiration.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest in the beast: These shall hate the harlot and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and shall burn her with fire.**

I may have missed it but did you speak to the issue of cutting off the hand and plucking out the eyes that cause sin? Did Jesus expain the symbols after commanding His disciples to do so?​

Assaulting His Body: the disciples of Jesus as all humanity assaulted Jesus with our sin as He had to die a horrible death to pay for us.
 
It would be doing something prohibited by the Law - eating human flesh and drinking human blood.
The drinking of blood of an sacrificial animal was prohibited, because of the many false Gods. Pagans believed that drinking the blood of a sacrificial animal gave them the ‘essence’ of that animal. For example, Romans would drink the blood of a sacrificed bull, before a battle, thinking they would have the strength of that animal.

Christians want the essence of Christ within themselves. With the new and everlasting covenant, Christ gives us this opportunity. We receive Him body, blood, soul and divinity through the Eucharist.

Paul taught the Church of Corinth what the Eucharist truly was and the consequences of not believing.

1Co 10:16 The chalice of benediction which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

1Co 11:27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.


Christ appeared to the two that walked to Emmaus.

Luk 24:16 But their eyes were held, that they should not know him.

Christ revealed Himself to them.

**Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread and blessed and brake and gave to them.
Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened: and they knew him. And he vanished out of their sight.

Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way: and how they knew him in the breaking of bread.**

The earliest Church fathers wrote about the belief. St. Ignatius wrote his about the same time St. John had written ‘Revelations’.

**Ignatius of Antioch
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).
. . . and are now ready to obey your bishop and clergy with undivided minds and to share in the one common breaking of bread – the medicine of immortality, and the sovereign remedy by which we escape death and live in Jesus Christ for evermore (Letter to the Ephesians 20 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration * and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus
He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood) from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receive the Word of God and become the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported) how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life — flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord and is in fact a member of him? (Against Heresies 5:2 [A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria
“Eat my flesh)” [Jesus] says, “and drink my blood.” The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).***
 
**Isa 61:1 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord hath anointed me: he hath sent me to preach to the meek, to heal the contrite of heart, and to preach a release to the captives, and deliverance to them that are shut up.

Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.**

We’ll have to pick it up again tomorrow. The city of Angels is 3 hours behind me…
do I understand indulgence correctly. lets say I was Catholic and had sex outside of marriage and I want to be free of this guilt how would an indulgence be used?
 

ProdicalSon, IMO, the Holy Spirit is the Essence of Jesus.​

This doesn’t add up with the idea of why Mary had to be sinless. We are told that if Mary is the ark of the covenant which had to be sinless to hold the Presence of God, she must be sinless. Now you are telling me the real Presence of Jesus lives in you and me sinner through communion.
 
I have no problem with that, though we differ on what limits the size and scope of Christs church.
The size of the Church is all nations and the scope is under Christ’s own authority.

One has to wonder what limits there are on those that hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven, with the authority to bind and loose on earth with a promise it would be bound and loosed in heaven?
 
What is the GOOD NEWS message from our Lord Jesus Christ, if not that we were again redeemable to become again GOD’S spiritual children…both Jew and Gentile? He preached the news, as the WORD (Son of GOD) about how humanity is to live within GOD’S LAWS towards the PATH OF RETURN, after Death…we were to strive in living so we would become IMMORTAL in SPIRIT…What do you believe was his message and teaching? Regarding Indulgences…I stand back and ask myself how Jesus Christ would have reacted to this…per definition: “Remission of a debt or tax; Release from captivity or punishment; Remission of a temporal punishment due to sin; The guilt of which has been forgiven”…As this was not something Christ and the Apostles either preached or practiced, I find it hard to believe this would be acceptable in their eyes now…I want to know your opinions of the DEAD SEA SCROLLS and the ESSENES…
You are Catholic but dont believe in indulgences?
 

ProdicalSon, IMO, the Holy Spirit is the Essence of Jesus.​

This doesn’t add up with the idea of why Mary had to be sinless. We are told that if Mary is the ark of the covenant which had to be sinless to hold the Presence of God, she must be sinless. Now you are telling me the real Presence of Jesus lives in you and me sinner through communion.
We, Protestants and Catholics, believe Christ forgives sins, which cleanses us through His sacrifice.

Catholics should go to confession, with contrite hearts, prior to receiving communion so as to avoid receiving Him unworthily, for we discern that we are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.

At every Mass, Catholics recite the Confiteor.

I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do;
and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
 
do I understand indulgence correctly. lets say I was Catholic and had sex outside of marriage and I want to be free of this guilt how would an indulgence be used?
The quote below is from the Catholic Encyclopedia.
**An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God’s justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints, and for some just and reasonable motive. Regarding this definition, the following points are to be noted:
•In the Sacrament of Baptism not only is the guilt of sin remitted, but also all the penalties attached to sin. In the Sacrament of Penance the guilt of sin is removed, and with it the eternal punishment due to mortal sin; but there still remains the temporal punishment required by Divine justice, and this requirement must be fulfilled either in the present life or in the world to come, i.e., in Purgatory. An indulgence offers the penitent sinner the means of discharging this debt during his life on earth.
•The satisfaction, usually called the “penance”, imposed by the confessor when he gives absolution is an integral part of the Sacrament of Penance; an indulgence is extra-sacramental; it presupposes the effects obtained by confession, contrition, and sacramental satisfaction. It differs also from the penitential works undertaken of his own accord by the repentant sinner — prayer, fasting, alms-giving — in that these are personal and get their value from the merit of him who performs them, whereas an indulgence places at the penitent’s disposal the merits of Christ and of the saints, which form the “Treasury” of the Church.**
 
Dokimas, I have posted the following on other threads and am re-posting it here incase you haven’t had the opportunity to consider it.

The Passover meal was part of the covenant from God and men. It required an active participation. In reading Exodus 12:17, we see this was to be done perpetually, for ever. To reject the Last Supper as the adjustment to, or replacement of, or more specifically a fulfillment of, the covenant command of God, means we should still be celebrating the Passover meal as prescribed by God.

We know from Jeremiah 31:31, a new covenant was prophesied. This prophesy was brought to mind in the New Testament, in a letter from St. Paul to the Hebrews 8:7 – 12.

The prescription of the Passover meal was detailed and clear from the Lord, as written in Exodus 12.

A lamb without blemish was to be slaughtered at twilight, eaten with unleavened bread, the lamb’s blood was to be sprinkled on the doorposts with hyssop, none of the lamb’s bones were to be broken, and this ordinance was to be celebrated perpetually.

The Jewish Passover meal consisted of:
  1. The Festival Blessing – Drink from the 1st cup of wine.
  2. Passover Narrative and Little Hallel (Psalms 113) – Drink from 2nd cup of wine.
  3. Main Meal: roasted lamb, unleavened bread, and bitter herbs and spices – Drink from 3rd cup of wine.
  4. Great Hallel (Psalms 114 – 118) and the drinking of the 4th cup of wine, and closed when presiding priest or host says the phrase, “TEL TELESTI” which is interpreted as “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
Now let’s look at the Lord’s Supper that occurred during the celebration of the Passover, or Seder, meal.

3 of the Gospel authors told us about the Lord’s Supper. Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote about it. All 3 say He gave the cup, of the new covenant, to the Apostles and told them to drink, but it does not tell us that Christ, the High Priest, drank of the cup. Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18, tells us that, during the Passover meal, Christ announced He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until he drank it in the Kingdom of God. After making this announcement, Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26 tell us, “Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.” After singing a hymn, the great Hallel, they went out to the garden, without the High Priest closing the celebration, not only not closing the celebration, but declaring He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until He drank it in the Kingdom of God. He did not say, “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
In the garden, our Lord prayed to the father to let this cup be passed from Him, if it was the Father’s will. Matthew 22:44 tells us that Christ prayed this 3 times. What cup was Christ praying be passed from Him? Was it the 4th cup that closed the Passover meal, which was fulfilled with the Lord’s Supper?

When God made the covenant with Moses, Moses asked who to tell had told him of the covenant, Exodus 3:13 – 14. God told Moses, “I am, who I am.”

When Christ was arrested in the garden, He asked who they were looking for and they replied, “Jesus of Nazareth”. In John 18:5, Jesus told them, “I AM he”. When those arresting Him heard this, they went backward and fell to the ground (John 18:6).

Mark 15:22 – 24 told us that Christ was offered wine drugged with myrrh, but He did not drink it.

John 19:28 – 30 explains that Our Lord, aware that everything was now finished, in order that scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst”. Hearing this, they took a sponge and dipped it in common wine, sour wine, fruit of the vine, and held it up to His mouth with hyssop. After taking the wine, our Lord said, “It is finished”, bowed His head and gave up the spirit.

John 19:33 – 38 told us that our Lord’s legs were not broken, so that scripture might be fulfilled.

Mark 15:33 – 34 tells us the time the Lamb of God death, which was twilight, the same time Moses was instructed to slaughter the sacrificial lamb.

Christ came to fulfill the law, and it was fulfilled with the new covenant. A covenant of God and men, that requires participation of those being set free.
 
I may have missed it but did you speak to the issue of cutting off the hand and plucking out the eyes that cause sin? Did Jesus expain the symbols after commanding His disciples to do so?
Jesus uses an hyperbole with His teaching, that you’ve referenced.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than thy whole body be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body go into hell.

Unlike the real presence, or Eucharist, the above teaching lacks supporting documention of the early Church as being practiced by the early Christians.
 
We, Protestants and Catholics, believe Christ forgives sins, which cleanses us through His sacrifice.

Catholics should go to confession, with contrite hearts, prior to receiving communion so as to avoid receiving Him unworthily, for we discern that we are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.

At every Mass, Catholics recite the Confiteor.

I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do;
and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
Mobsters were know to be supporters of the local CC. They ‘confessed’ their sins (do you really think they told the priest they murdered, stole from the poor, lied, extorted), then they went to take communion. If that was the real Presence of the Lord and they weren’t struck like Uzzah was struck, I’d be mad if I were Uzzah. (Not that God has to be fair according to my understanding but I hope you get my meaning.)
 
Jesus uses an hyperbole with His teaching, that you’ve referenced.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than thy whole body be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body go into hell.

Unlike the real presence, or Eucharist, the above teaching lacks supporting documention of the early Church as being practiced by the early Christians.

The only reason one is hyperbole and the other isn’t is sacred tradition (early practice of 2nd century or later church members)?​

If we could find any early fathesr that cut off their hands, would that mean we’ve missed an (name removed by moderator)ortant teaching?
 
Mobsters were know to be supporters of the local CC. They ‘confessed’ their sins (do you really think they told the priest they murdered, stole from the poor, lied, extorted), then they went to take communion. If that was the real Presence of the Lord and they weren’t struck like Uzzah was struck, I’d be mad if I were Uzzah. (Not that God has to be fair according to my understanding but I hope you get my meaning.)
Dokimas, that is an objection ‘card’ often played by many Protestants. Jim Jones was a Protestant preacher. Jim Baker was a Protestant preacher. Jimmy Swaggert was a Protestant preacher. Are we to discern all of Protestantism by those that appeared ot have served Him less than perfectly? Are there any perfect people, who serve Him or not, on this earth?

Judas betrayed Christ, Peter denied Him 3 times, Thomas doubted Him; do we question Christ, or His teachings, because of those sins?

Christ built a Church and gave authority to, appointed/ordained, men of the Church, knowing all men and that none were sinless.

I don’t know what those Mobsters confessed, with a contrite heart. I can’t say if they received the body, blood, soul and divinity unworthily or not. There is only one that can see what’s in everyone’s heart.

We can only judge ourselves, so that we are not judged.

1Co 11:31 But if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
 
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