Extraordinary Ministers

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PS: At my “novus ordo” parish, it would be difficult to fit any more people in to the Church on Sundays than already come. Attendance here is excellent, and there would be no reason for our parish priest to be “jealous” of our local TLM parish, even if they did pack their whole church - I’ve never seen them do that, but I don’t go there regularly.

I go about once a month to the TLM, and any time I’ve gone, I’ve never had to worry about getting a good seat.
 
What makes me sad is the view some people have on how “holy” something is if a lay person is involved. Did Jesus not give the power to move a mountain with just a mustard seed of faith to all who believe in him? If he has granted this power to us, his children…then don’t you think that those who believe in him can act as a “helper” of the church in passing out the Eucharist?

And for those who think some EM’s are getting a “big” head…I ask you…did Jesus not love all of God’s children? Should we not too love all, even though they may have arrogance. Eucharistic ministry is a great way for some to become involved in the church. It is used for two reason, to help overburdened priests, and to allow the community to become part of the celebration of mass. If you sit in church and start to think negative thoughts about an EM, why not first think of your own sins and what you can do to correct them before casting stones?

I say these words with love and compassion for all of God’s creatures.
 
I personally don’t find EMHC that jarring. I’m a convert though so maybe I’m missing something. I do get a little annoyed when father always asks for ministers of communion to come up…its just a little too routine. The intruction from JPII would indicate this shouldn’t happen.

As with many other things if we would just follow the rubrics the Mass would be a lot more meaningful. 😃
 
What makes me sad is the view some people have on how “holy” something is if a lay person is involved. Did Jesus not give the power to move a mountain with just a mustard seed of faith to all who believe in him? If he has granted this power to us, his children…then don’t you think that those who believe in him can act as a “helper” of the church in passing out the Eucharist?

And for those who think some EM’s are getting a “big” head…I ask you…did Jesus not love all of God’s children? Should we not too love all, even though they may have arrogance. Eucharistic ministry is a great way for some to become involved in the church. It is used for two reason, to help overburdened priests, and to allow the community to become part of the celebration of mass. If you sit in church and start to think negative thoughts about an EM, why not first think of your own sins and what you can do to correct them before casting stones?

I say these words with love and compassion for all of God’s creatures.
So if an EM commits a liturgical abuse, that’s just OK because Jesus loves us?

The Episcopal Church is that way

<==========
 
So if an EM commits a liturgical abuse, that’s just OK because Jesus loves us?
He never said anything like that.
The Episcopal Church is that way
<==========
Wow. That’s an incredibly rude thing to say to someone. I thought priests were supposed to heal the spiritually wounded and bind up the broken hearted - not chase people out of the church. :nope:

PS: By the way, maybe you would prefer to be an Episcopalian. They don’t have EMHCs, as far as I know, and they conduct their services in Latin.
 
He never said anything like that.

Wow. That’s an incredibly rude thing to say to someone. I thought priests were supposed to heal the spiritually wounded and bind up the broken hearted - not chase people out of the church. :nope:

PS: By the way, maybe you would prefer to be an Episcopalian. They don’t have EMHCs, as far as I know, and they conduct their services in Latin.
I’m not sure what Episcopal Church you’ve seen, but the present day episcopal church ordains women, does not conduct services in latin.

Anyway, saying that we should ignore the arrogance. Which, by the way, we are talking beyond arrogance to blatant liturgical abuse (removing/replacing communion in the tabernacle) so no, we should not just sit back and pray over our own sins. The program of EMHCs needs revamping.
 
I’m not sure what Episcopal Church you’ve seen, but the present day episcopal church ordains women, does not conduct services in latin.
Women speak Latin, too. 😉
Anyway, saying that we should ignore the arrogance. Which, by the way, we are talking beyond arrogance to blatant liturgical abuse (removing/replacing communion in the tabernacle) so no, we should not just sit back and pray over our own sins. The program of EMHCs needs revamping.
By what definition is it “arrogant” to obey one’s priest, whether one is male or female? The only times I’ve ever seen EMHCs open the Tabernacle was when the priest gave them the key and specifically told them to do so.

What are they supposed to do, if they are given a direct command by the priest?

Furthermore, I have never heard of anyone appointing himself or herself to be an EMHC - this comes only by invitation of the Bishop.
 
Women speak Latin, too. 😉

By what definition is it “arrogant” to obey one’s priest, whether one is male or female? The only times I’ve ever seen EMHCs open the Tabernacle was when the priest gave them the key and specifically told them to do so.

What are they supposed to do, if they are given a direct command by the priest?

Furthermore, I have never heard of anyone appointing himself or herself to be an EMHC - this comes only by invitation of the Bishop.
By the definition that an EMHC going into the tabernacle is a LITURGICAL ABUSE.
 
By the definition that an EMHC going into the tabernacle is a LITURGICAL ABUSE.
If it is, then someone needs to tell the priests about this.

Again - answer my question - What are they supposed to do, if they are given a direct command by the priest?

Should they stand there in the middle of Mass and argue with the priest?
 
So if an EM commits a liturgical abuse, that’s just OK because Jesus loves us?

The Episcopal Church is that way

<==========
The answer to your question is, No, it is not OK as you put it, but yes, they should be forgiven. It saddens my heart that you feel the way you do. Mass is a joyous occasion that should be celebrated and enjoyed by all. People need to feel that they are part of it and not just observers. I am in my discerning period about my vocation for the priesthood. I hope and pray that I may be accepting of all people and will encourage the laiety’s role in participation.

By the way, If you want to quote me, please use words that I have said. I do not remember stating that an abuse of the most precious sacrament was as you put it, “OK.”

May God Bless you in your studies.
 
If it is, then someone needs to tell the priests about this.

Again - answer my question - What are they supposed to do, if they are given a direct command by the priest?

Should they stand there in the middle of Mass and argue with the priest?
Well, it states clearly in the GIRM that only the priest is supposed to do that.

And your question is, if a priest tells you to commit a liturgical abuse that you are aware is a liturgical abuse, what are you supposed to do?

NOT DO IT

You should remind hte priest that what you are being requested to do is a violation of Canon Law, and if he insists, then you remove yourself.

If the priest tells you to just go ahead and give the homily, would you?
 
Allow me to weigh in on the matter briefly, admittedly without having read every word posted above (in fact, not most of them).

My take on the EMHCs is that there are circumstances in which they perform a necessary function. That necessity is intensified by the fact that the number of priests is declining. There are some places in which, indeed, the people think that EMHCs are a necessity, whereas priests are not. I’ll cite an example given to me by a fellow seminarian: A woman asked her bishop who was making a visit to a parish to speak with the catechists there, “Bishop, isn’t it possible to devise a way for there to be churches without priests? I mean, couldn’t we just have someone from the audience get up and do the Gospel, and distribute Communion?”

That is precisely the senitment that too often goes in tandem with a plethora of EMHCs and which is dangerous to the future of the Church. At my former parish, it was routine to schedule no less than five EMHCs at every Mass. One cannot, in my opinion, be an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion if you’re on a schedule. It’s more a matter of the priest saying, “Gee willikers, I don’t think I can get this all done by myself. Better have someone help me.”

The idea of having people deputed by a bishop to do this under specific circumstances has been advanced, and I do not think it would be unwise. After all, if someone is going to be performing a function Ordinarily performed by a priest, they may as well have a wee bit of training and the approval of the man responsible for such things, no?

And as for EMHCs opening the tabernacle, Francis Card. Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, made it perfectly clear in an interview he gave to EWTN that only those who can be considered Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are to open the tabernacle, under normal circumstance. OMHCs would be bishops, priests, and deacons, in general.

If a priest tells me to something at Mass, his being a priest does not of necessity mean that the thing he’s asking me to do ought to be done. Exempli gratia: If a priest told me to strip down to my skivees and do the “funky chicken” after Communion, I would respectfully decline. And that is not even specifically prohibited by a law (just common sense). Much less would I do something that is specifically prohibited, such as open the tabernacle when I am not supposed to.

This attitude that whatever a priest says goes is what gave rise to Star Trek Masses and clown Masses and Rocky Horror Picture Show Masses in decades past. Priests are not infallible, and even the pope’s infallibility is limited to specific times. If you’re looking for someone whose word you can trust always, at every time, in every place, no matter what it might be, then you are looking for God. Generally, God does not direct people to do this or that little action during the Mass.

Now, I have said numerous times, “under usual circumstance” or something to that effect. What I mean, simply, is that if your priest happens to be in a wheelchair or in some other way unable to distribute Communion, I would not, myself, have a problem seeing someone else do it, though this ought to be rare and unexpected.
 
I’ve seen priests commit just as many liturgical abuses as EMsHC. Funnily enough those parishes with highly orthodox priests tend to have well-trained and reverent EMsHC as well, so I think we can see which is the chicken and which the egg in such cases. At least EMsHC don’t preach error and/or heresy from the pulpit or advise it in the confessional 😦
 
You should remind hte priest that what you are being requested to do is a violation of Canon Law, and if he insists, then you remove yourself.
OH, so we should teach our superiors how to do their job? :rolleyes:

If I did that at work, I’d get fired.

It says in your sig that you’re a veteran. How well do you think it would have gone over, disobeying orders and teaching your superior officers how to do their job in the middle of a battle?

A priest is much more holy than a boss or a military commander, though.
If the priest tells you to just go ahead and give the homily, would you?
It’s not something he’s likely to ask. If he did, I’d assume he was joking.
 
I’ve seen priests commit just as many liturgical abuses as EMsHC. Funnily enough those parishes with highly orthodox priests tend to have well-trained and reverent EMsHC as well, so I think we can see which is the chicken and which the egg in such cases. At least EMsHC don’t preach error and/or heresy from the pulpit or advise it in the confessional 😦
No, but apparently if their priest told them they could, they would obey him before canon law.

👍 Hooray, Liturgical Abuse!
 
How are lay people supposed to know canon law? If you can’t obey your priest, then you might as well be Protestant, picking and choosing which written words to obey, instead of the living authority.
 
How are lay people supposed to know canon law? If you can’t obey your priest, then you might as well be Protestant, picking and choosing which written words to obey, instead of the living authority.
…you read it…
 
And how about the law that says that only canon lawyers and ordained clergy are allowed to interpret and apply canon law?

Or do we just ignore that one, for convenience?
If you knowingly commit a liturgical abuse, you are in the wrong. Period.
 
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