Extreme disruptions during Mass

[Kathrine]

Children learn by example. Leaving every time that they do something wrong teaches them that if they scream, they will get what they want. Parents with unruly children probably know this. Every place - home, work, school, going out with friends/family, AND Mass - are perfect times to show children how they ought to act… BY EXAMPLE.

It might be hard for you to focus on Mass with someone screaming, but maybe you ought to offer that burden up to God. If it’s a large parish with 20+ kids (or more in this case) don’t expect any mass to be quite.

I certainly wouldn’t leave in the middle of mass and rob myself or my children from the graces that one receives for someone elses peace of mind. And no one should be expected to.

Obviously there are extreme circumstances where you might HAVE to remove the child, for everyone’s sanity… but like I said, you cave once, twice… three times, and eventually it will become habitual and they’re just going to scream even louder.

Also, have you perhaps considered that this child might have a developmental disability? He probably doesn’t, but it’s possible. Again, should the parent rob themselves and their child from the graces received, just so you can have quite time? I’m certain there are places and times around town, where you could go and pray quietly.

 

[Apryl]

You did. Mass at its “fullest” means putting up with stuff like this. But as I suggested, a one-time incident is just that. If it looks like it’s going to be a regular thing, someone whose job it is to handle these things really ought to approach the parents. If this kid is really off the chart behavior-wise, maybe there is something wrong with him/her.

Did our parents have to put up with stuff like this 20, 30, 40 years ago? When did it become a part of the mass?

Years ago, there was no ‘Mom stay with the baby, and then Dad stay with the baby’, and people attended mass every week.

What changed?

 

[happymommy]

If your brat “does not have the ability to focus and listen to anything at that age” THEN LEAVE HER THE HECK HOME UNTIL SHE DOES. Mass is not a three ring circus in which we all show up to see your child perform.

I don’t think that is very nice and not a very Christian like attitude. Jesus said let the children come to me! Not just the one’s who will sit quietly. I think people should have respect for those around them, but there is no reason to call the child a brat. Sounds to me like it’s the parents fault they act like that not the child. Put blame were it is due.

 

[ChristIsLord]

Uhhh forget it, the Catholic Church is overall very un-child friendly. Most do not have cry rooms, and the people are overall impatient and unfriendly concerning children. This is a major reason why we don’t see people coming to the Mass as a family anymore, you have bits and bites, but not many families anymore, it’s not worth the trouble to bother people who shoot you a look of death because your daughter is being disruptive.

it is strange how considerably more friendly and accomodating the Lutherans are than the Catholics.

 

[Apryl]

Nothing.

Children grow up. You spent an hour hearing a child scream, when you say you have kids of your own. I don’t (I’m 23) but I can tell you that you sound like an “old biddle.”

I too used to get upset at kids during Mass. Then I realized if every family left their kids at home, this wouldn’t be a church or a Mass. Just a group of self-centered adults.

Then I also realized the sound of children is a beautiful thing, when I considered how many are aborted every day.

We used to have a family where, honest to God, the baby would start crying as soon as Father started the Preface to the Eucharistic Prayers. This baby would cry, week after week, until the Lord’s Prayer. I think the baby didn’t like the sound of the priest’s voice.

They don’t attend our church now. They were never chastised for it, either - least I know I didn’t do it. But amazing… the memories of that still linger with me. It was horrible.

That baby would cry louder and louder, as if trying to drown out the priest.

I often wondered if the parents did that on purpose.

 

[Kathrine]

Did our parents have to put up with stuff like this 20, 30, 40 years ago? When did it become a part of the mass?

Years ago, there was no ‘Mom stay with the baby, and then Dad stay with the baby’, and people attended mass every week.

What changed?

I’m sure they kept the children in Mass. Corrected them as much as possible at the time, and then corrected them further at a later time. How do I know? Because my great-grandmother told me and my father told me.

Their response to questions like this is… this is how it’s always been. You take it with stride and offer it up.

 

[TurboVW]

Uhhh forget it, the Catholic Church is overall very un-child friendly. Most do not have cry rooms, and the people are overall impatient and unfriendly concerning children. This is a major reason why we don’t see people coming to the Mass as a family anymore, you have bits and bites, but not many families anymore, it’s not worth the trouble to bother people who shoot you a look of death because your daughter is being disruptive.

it is strange how considerably more friendly and accomodating the Lutherans are than the Catholics.

Hmmm…

Well, since we don’t have huge new churches with cry-rooms and can’t afford to build on additions in many cases, I believe you are in the wrong.

Many non-Catholic faiths are incrediably and overtly friendly for this very reason. Catholics know to focus on Holy Hour, not Happy Hour.

 

[wifenmommy]

Nothing.

Children grow up. You spent an hour hearing a child scream, when you say you have kids of your own. I don’t (I’m 23) but I can tell you that you sound like an “old biddle.”
Ok, I suppose hearing a child SHRIEK TO THE TOP OF THIER LUNGS FOR AN HOUR is perfectly acceptable to you~I am by far a biddie, I am a young mother that cares for other children…
I too used to get upset at kids during Mass. Then I realized if every family left their kids at home, this wouldn’t be a church or a Mass. Just a group of self-centered adults.I never said leave them at home, just take them to the cry room until they sttle down

Then I also realized the sound of children is a beautiful thing, when I considered how many are aborted every day.Point taken. BUT YOU sit through a Mass with this child and get back to me, lets see how patient and calm you are at the end…

 

[wifenmommy]

Hmmm…

Well, since we don’t have huge new churches with cry-rooms and can’t afford to build on additions in many cases, I believe you are in the wrong.

Many non-Catholic faiths are incrediably and overtly friendly for this very reason. Catholics know to focus on Holy Hour, not Happy Hour.

The Church we attend is not new by far…we have a cry room. If your church does not have a cry room and you KNOW you have a rowdy kid, would it be hard to expect someone to sit near an exit so they may take a step outside until the childs screams are at a reasonable level?

 

[happymommy]

Did our parents have to put up with stuff like this 20, 30, 40 years ago? When did it become a part of the mass?

Years ago, there was no ‘Mom stay with the baby, and then Dad stay with the baby’, and people attended mass every week.

What changed?

People changed their thinking so that mass is to be all about them! What they can get out of it instead of leading their children in their journey of faith! I’ve said this before, my number one goal as a mother, is salvation for my children through Jesus Christ, if I fail with that, I have failed my children. This is something I take very seriously. Our children have been in mass every week since they were born. They know their faith, they respect it and they love it. They think of questions to ask Father every week. He calls them his little theologians. They love to go to RE. I think that is because of the importance my husband and I place on it.

 

[ChristIsLord]

Hmmm…

Well, since we don’t have huge new churches with cry-rooms and can’t afford to build on additions in many cases, I believe you are in the wrong.

Many non-Catholic faiths are incrediably and overtly friendly for this very reason. Catholics know to focus on Holy Hour, not Happy Hour.

The fact that especially on the east coast with older Churches they don’t have cry rooms (since I keep reading this as an option, I’ve never seen one in a Catholic Church) is why they came up with the Family Mass in the first place. But instead you get all the old biddies going trying to get Mass in before McDonalds stops serving breakfast making faces at the kids all Mass long, it’s a shame. You shouldn’t be allowed into family Mass unless you have kids, that would solve 99.9% of the complaining and problems.

 

[Kathrine]

Apryl and Wifenmommy -

Get over yourselves. Mass is not just for you. It is not just for the quite, the contemplative, the reverent, or the Saints. It’s for everyone, the loud, the obnoxious, young and old, and for the sinners.

Your problems aren’t caused by the loud children in the back pew, it’s your pride.

It’s not about what you get out of it… it’s what is given.

 

[Nepenthe]

Heh, well, even though I was not raised Catholic or Christian (or any other religion) I loved going to high Latin masses with my very traditional Irish Catholic grandmother and great aunts (who, I might add, would have been pretty appalled at some of the attitudes on these fora, and not for the members being ‘too liberal’ either).

I didn’t (yet) know any Latin, and was just learning to read at age 2, but I sure loved to sing, so I’d be up there in the front pews of the huge, echoing Cathedral sincerely belting out the Alphabet Song and suchlike - and the priest (trying to keep a straight face, but not very well) actually seemed to approve of my enthusiasm and desire to learn to read and sing, as well as my (however clumsy) respect for my elders and for tradition.

Heck, when I read the title of this thread, I thought you were talking about gunshots or a sudden visit from a SWAT team, sheesh. But I agree, tiny kids sometimes really do need some time out of the Mass, and may not be able to tell you why in words, at least not until they feel less ‘in-public’ - and I’m quite sure every priest and most of the congregation understands such human needs very well. In short, it’s okay.

 

[mercygate]

Did our parents have to put up with stuff like this 20, 30, 40 years ago? When did it become a part of the mass?

Years ago, there was no ‘Mom stay with the baby, and then Dad stay with the baby’, and people attended mass every week.

What changed?

The OP talked about a one time event. It was ONE TIME. Anybody’s kid can be the Abominable Toddler for one day.

And yes: people’s kids did act up 40 and 50 years ago. That is when cry rooms came into vogue.

 

[Cajun_Girl]

I always read the posts about children at Mass with interest. My little boy is only a month old, and so far he behaves like an angel when we take him to Mass. However, that’s only because he hasn’t reached the temper tantrum stage yet! I feel that I can’t put down any parents with screaming children because I don’t yet know how Leo is going to turn out.

Wifenmommy, here’s a suggestion from St. Therese that might help (if you’re not already familiar with it). She said that there was a crazy old nun who was always fidgeting around and making disrupting sounds during prayer time. She was quite unsympathetic for a while because she thought she was entitled to uninterrupted prayer. But after a while, she started to see this as an opportunity for holiness. When she was unable to concentrate, she simply listened to all of those annoying sounds and offered them up as her prayer. Even disruptions can help us grow closer to God!

I definitely understand why you’re upset about the incident. My little guy might turn out to be a horror, but he’s never going to have any coins to throw in the middle of Mass! Still, since you can’t force the parents to be more responsible, maybe you can still get something out of the disrupted Mass?

 

[happymommy]

Uhhh forget it, the Catholic Church is overall very un-child friendly. Most do not have cry rooms, and the people are overall impatient and unfriendly concerning children. This is a major reason why we don’t see people coming to the Mass as a family anymore, you have bits and bites, but not many families anymore, it’s not worth the trouble to bother people who shoot you a look of death because your daughter is being disruptive.

it is strange how considerably more friendly and accomodating the Lutherans are than the Catholics.

You can’t make a blanket statement about the church like that. Have you been to all of the Catholic Churches? Ours is very child friendly. Not impatient or unfriendly at all. It’s full of beautiful young families and the older people support them and help with the children. We are a Church Family. It’s wonderful. Maybe, if you feel this strongly you should do something to change the church atmosphere, instead of just complaining. It’s your church, help it grow!

 

[mercygate]

The fact that especially on the east coast with older Churches they don’t have cry rooms (since I keep reading this as an option, I’ve never seen one in a Catholic Church) is why they came up with the Family Mass in the first place. But instead you get all the old biddies going trying to get Mass in before McDonalds stops serving breakfast making faces at the kids all Mass long, it’s a shame. You shouldn’t be allowed into family Mass unless you have kids, that would solve 99.9% of the complaining and problems.

Well, I see there is sniping on both sides. Actually, where I am the “old biddies” tend to frequent the Saturday evening Mass with the bongo drums and rock band. Go figure.

 

[wifenmommy]

Apryl and Wifenmommy -

Get over yourselves. Mass is not just for you. It is not just for the quite, the contemplative, the reverent, or the Saints. It’s for everyone, the loud, the obnoxious, young and old, and for the sinners.

Your problems aren’t caused by the loud children in the back pew, it’s your pride.

It’s not about what you get out of it… it’s what is given.

How is it possible to be in the frame of mind to GIVE when a rude parent has their lil darling shriek for an hour…could you focus? How is not being able to hear our Priest accomplishing anything???..pride has NOTHING to do with this conversation…this conversation is about parents who think the whole congregation has to be disrupted so they dont have to discipline their child…

 

[happymommy]

The fact that especially on the east coast with older Churches they don’t have cry rooms (since I keep reading this as an option, I’ve never seen one in a Catholic Church) is why they came up with the Family Mass in the first place. But instead you get all the old biddies going trying to get Mass in before McDonalds stops serving breakfast making faces at the kids all Mass long, it’s a shame. You shouldn’t be allowed into family Mass unless you have kids, that would solve 99.9% of the complaining and problems.

We live in PA. and in our old church and also in our new church, same parish, new building, we have cry rooms. And if you don’t have a young child you may not sit in there, you see we had the problem of old people sitting back there and taking up all of the seats so they could leave right after communion without anyone noticing, or so they thought

 

[mercygate]

How is it possible to be in the frame of mind to GIVE when a rude parent has their lil darling shriek for an hour…could you focus? How is not being able to hear our Priest accomplishing anything???..pride has NOTHING to do with this conversation…this conversation is about parents who think the whole congregation has to be disrupted so they dont have to discipline their child…

It was ONE TIME. Who knows what provoked the behavior? A one time event does not make a syndrome.