Extreme disruptions during Mass

[iamrefreshed]

Now here is the story:
Someone towards the back of the Church, allowed their child to scream, shriek, throw change on the pews, throw the songbooks on the pews and floor during the ENTIRE MASS! Five seconds didnt pass without this child shrieking loud enough to make your ears ring. …

As wifenmommy stated, this is an EXTREME case of unruly behavior.

Why are some of you attacking her?

 

[iamrefreshed]

I tried that once My daughter cried out " OWWWWWIIEEE your hurting meeeeee!!" right there in mass…

Boy was embarassed.

Next time twist harder!

 

[ChristIsLord]

So you just sit there and let them do it? No, you take them out and deal with whatever the problem is.

If they have a need, then you meet the need; you don’t let the kid sit there and scream for an hour straight if they are hungry, wet, or uncomfortable; that’s probably a form of child abuse.

And if they are old enough to act up for no good reason, then they are old enough to be taken outside and punished for it.

No I’ve explained I don’t take my daughter to Mass at all, she doesn’t shriek for an hour or anything, but I’ve found even talking, shifting, leaving the aisle every now again brings back wayyyy too many uncomfortable stares from the “perfect parents” or even older folks with no kids at the family mass in the crowd, who turn thier nose down at you because they were either blessed with a kid like my son, or they don’t remember how bad toddlers can be, they don’t call it terrible twos for nothing.

I can’t help but think that this is part of the case with this thread.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I can’t help but think that this is part of the case with this thread.

Didn’t you read the first post?

Or are you judging the OP?

 

[ChristIsLord]

Didn’t you read the first post?

Or are you judging the OP?

Based on everything I’ve read from the OP it doesn’t seem to be just extreme cases it appears to be she has high standards for conduct for kids not her own, and she seems awfully proud of her parenting prowess over those with kids who are more difficult. And from that I can guess that while she thinks it was horrid shrieking for an hour straight (this is difficult to believe frankly) it could’ve been a bad fit for 20 minutes and still garnered disdain. That’s it, no judging just analizing the thread here.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Based on everything I’ve read from the OP it doesn’t seem to be just extreme cases it appears to be she has high standards for conduct for kids not her own, and she seems awfully proud of her parenting prowess over those with kids who are more difficult. And from that I can guess that while she thinks it was horrid shrieking for an hour straight (this is difficult to believe frankly) it could’ve been a bad fit for 20 minutes and still garnered disdain. That’s it, no judging just analizing the thread here.

One person’s analyzing is another person’s judging.

 

[SeekerJen]

Based on everything I’ve read from the OP it doesn’t seem to be just extreme cases it appears to be she has high standards for conduct for kids not her own, and she seems awfully proud of her parenting prowess over those with kids who are more difficult. And from that I can guess that while she thinks it was horrid shrieking for an hour straight (this is difficult to believe frankly) it could’ve been a bad fit for 20 minutes and still garnered disdain. That’s it, no judging just analizing the thread here.

A 20-minute fit is still a long fit. At my parish that’s nearly a third of a Sunday Mass. I doubt a parent would refuse to take a child who was having a 20-minute fit out of a movie theater or concert hall. Why is Mass so much different? No one is suggesting that the parent not bring the child at all or not bring the child back into Mass once calmed down.

And (this is rhetorical, based on the OP) if a child is having a fit and has a penchant for throwing things, why give the child a handful of coins or any other potentially painful ammo? One Palm Sunday I watched as the mother three rows ahead of me gave her son toy after toy, which he pitched several aisles away. She finally got the idea to stop right before communion when she gave him her Blackberry and he pitched that. She’s lucky he didn’t hit someone in the head.

 

[wifenmommy]

Based on everything I’ve read from the OP it doesn’t seem to be just extreme cases it appears to be she has high standards for conduct for kids not her own, and she seems awfully proud of her parenting prowess You are darn right~God gave me this vocation and I fully intended to raise her up as the Lord would have it. There is nothing wrong with teaching your child to behave.over those with kids who are more difficult. My child has had here moments. I do put hight standards on her behavior, maybe more parents should try it. Shouldnt parents put high standards on their childs behavior??? And from that I can guess that while she thinks it was horrid shrieking for an hour straight (this is difficult to believe frankly) it could’ve been a bad fit for 20 minutes and still garnered disdain. That’s it, no judging just analizing the thread here.

Ok let me make this a tad clear. yes the shrieking lasted the entire hour of Mass. It wasnt 10, 20, or 30 minutes of shrieking~I actually could have tolerated that. It was a FULL SIXTY MINUTES. Even the folks in front of us jumped from time to time at the racket. My dh who is as patient as they come, even was a nervous wreck from this.

 

[sarah_anne_628]

It doesn’t make you wrong but it does make you wholely unqualified to encourange parents to hit their 2 year old daughters.

Listen, the very idea of bullying or hitting my 25 pound two year old daughter is so far beyond anything I would even consider doing I can only laugh at the mental picture in my head.

I don’t even lay a hand on my dogs and they listen to me like I was the voice of God Himself. And when they were puppies they didn’t listen to anything either…

If only child rearing were as simple as training dogs.

I wasn’t encouraging parents to bully and hit…especially parents I don’t know on the internet (not that I would do that IRL either).

I agree that it is unreasonable for someone to expect absolutely no noise from children during a mass…especially during a mass for children…but it is also unreasonable for a parent not to expect dirty looks if they allow a child to be loud and disruptive just because it is a mass for children.

Two year olds can and do behave in mass and it doesn’t necessarily require a spanking (especially for a younger two year olds who may not understand).

 

[happymommy]

If only child rearing were as simple as training dogs.

I wasn’t encouraging parents to bully and hit…especially parents I don’t know on the internet (not that I would do that IRL either).

I agree that it is unreasonable for someone to expect absolutely no noise from children during a mass…especially during a mass for children…but it is also unreasonable for a parent not to expect dirty looks if they allow a child to be loud and disruptive just because it is a mass for children.

Two year olds can and do behave in mass and it doesn’t necessarily require a spanking (especially for a younger two year olds who may not understand).

That’s right. My two year old is in mass every week. It can be done. And he is NOT a quiet child, but he knows that we are in Jesus’ house and he knows to be good. Sometimes he starts talking, but I just point out something that Father is doing or we look at a book and he’s fine. Do I get to pay attention to the whole mass? No. But right now my goal is building the love of our faith in my children.
I think a lot of this comes from people not teaching their kids how to behave anywhere. There are no rules at home. How can you expect them to behave when the are out and to sit and be quiet at mass, if they never have to listen to you at home. It’s confusing to the kid.

 

[wifenmommy]

That’s right. My two year old is in mass every week. It can be done. And he is NOT a quiet child, but he knows that we are in Jesus’ house and he knows to be good. Sometimes he starts talking, but I just point out something that Father is doing or we look at a book and he’s fine. Do I get to pay attention to the whole mass? No. But right now my goal is building the love of our faith in my children.
I think a lot of this comes from people not teaching their kids how to behave anywhere. There are no rules at home. How can you expect them to behave when the are out and to sit and be quiet at mass, if they never have to listen to you at home. It’s confusing to the kid.

Well put!! You are soooooooo right! I totally agree! These days, unfortunately, parents dont “parent” anymore! They let the kids call the shots!BTW, I used the same “tactics” when dd was that same age!!

 

[ChristIsLord]

I can only laugh at the glad handing between several posters here on their parentign skills while they essential call anyone with kids who have behavioral problems “bad parents”… Jeesh you’re going to get sore from all the back patting and throwing others under the bus going on here.

If I was two and smacked for misbehaving I would sit still too, but it wouldn’t be for the right reasons it would be because I fear my parents.

 

[jmcrae]

I can only laugh at the glad handing between several posters here on their parentign skills while they essential call anyone with kids who have behavioral problems “bad parents”… Jeesh you’re going to get sore from all the back patting and throwing others under the bus going on here.

If I was two and smacked for misbehaving I would sit still too, but it wouldn’t be for the right reasons it would be because I fear my parents.

If fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, then maybe fear of parents is the beginning of civilization.

Why she is sitting still is less important than that she is getting into the habit of sitting still. She will understand the reasons for it when she is older. And meanwhile, a little “fear of the Mom” won’t do her any permanent harm. We’re they’re parents; not their friends.

 

[Appleby]

I tried that once My daughter cried out " OWWWWWIIEEE your hurting meeeeee!!" right there in mass…

Boy was embarassed.

My mother could give me a look that I could see through the back of my head; she never needed to lay a finger on any of us. Once I was in a Bible study when a woman whose Mama had recently died asked, “Do you think Mama can still see me?” and everyone agreed that your mama can ALWAYS see you.

Cultivate the Mom look and the Mom voice by practicing it at home (the Mom voice is not raised; it is simply a manner of speaking that conveys the message One More Step And You Are A Dead Man. There are times when it can literally save a child’s life to have a voice command that will stop him dead in his tracks.)

But if your attitude is IGOTTARIGHT, and you are using your unruly child as a weapon to prove that We Are Not The Boss Of You, stop right there and go play with your dolls, because this discussion is going nowhere faster than usual, and I am beginning to believe that you are just as unruly as your child so it’s no surprise that she will not behave.

 

[Eris]

I don’t think anyone has suggested that it would be rude to bring it to the attention of the parents. In fact, bringing it to the attention of the parent has been the consensus of this thread.

Hmmm…perhaps I misunderstood. Seemed like people were saying that you shouldn’t mention it to the parents, and that you should ignore it and if you don’t you are being an “old biddy” or “mean” or some of the other things people have said. If that’s not the case, good! Because I’m sure the parents are quite aware that the child is screaming; I’m not sure they know how to handle it. The kind thing to do would be to offer help to the parents. Those of us with even the best of children have had those horrible moments where the child just went wild. So a friendly “here, let me help you take your little one out to the foyer/cry room/ whatever is available” would be in order. The thing I’m seeing in this thread is that some people are taking offense if one dares suggest that the parent remove the child from Mass. And throwing about the term “judgmental” and “if you had a strong-willed child you’d think differently” and even “I hope you have a kid you can’t control someday, that’ll show you!” types of comments. Come on, people. The original post was about a child so extremely out of control that said child shrieked and threw things the entire Mass. Common sense would tell you to remove the child from that environment, for both the sake of the child and for the sake of everyone else. It’s fascinating to me that people are offended and outraged by such a simple thought. Interesting that this has touched a raw nerve…a very raw nerve. Wow.

 

[Appleby]

Where was the priest while this circus was going on? Is he deaf? Has anyone spoken to him about the situation?

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

Good point Appleby, I was wondering what the priest was doing - and the people nearest to the child.

To the OP - if they are there again next Sunday (they may not be if they got lots of dirty looks from their nearest neighbours) why not reach out and offer your friendship? Chalk last Sunday up to experience and move on.

 

[Julianna]

It is common sense. The child is disruptive you take the child out. Maybe the child isn’t ready to sit for a solid hour quietly. So he/she goes to nursery and plays with other kids until mass is over. Try it again later when they are older, it’s not a crime. But for the sake of everyone else…I removed my daughter.

To have a child scream for an hour…oh yeah, I’d give the parents dirty looks for sure. My daughter cried for less than 5 minutes and we were outta there.

The same goes for restaurants. It never ceases to amaze me that parents allow their children to scream and run around while people are trying to eat dinner.

It takes a few times of taking them out and then “twist an ear or pinch a shoulder” for them to get the message. When we are out in public we behave, period. When we are at Mass, we are quiet.

My mother always kept a switch in her purse whenever we went out. We didn’t dare misbave during Mass or when we went to her church service. Dad just gave us the “look”. It worked and we also knew there wouldn’t be a trip to Dunkin’ Donuts if we misbehaved.

My brother climbed into the meat counter at the grocery store…“once”…he never did it again. I wonder why

When a child howls for more than 5 minutes…it’s time to take them out. It is out of consideration for the other parishoners.

I didn’t go to the family “mass” too noisy for me. But then again, the nursery in the parish hall was also filled

 

[Lance]

My daughter simply doesn’t listen, she is two and will not sit still, she will throw things, make noises etc… The entire Mass without any concern for if we approve or not. Peoples reactions are why we no longer attend Mass as a family because we can’t take our daughter, people just aren’t patient enough. And typically it’s people who are there alone or older people without kids and I wonder why they come to the family Mass only to get upset at the people with small children?

My son was always very good in Church even as a little boy, my daughter is an absolute nightmare in public, and we can’t take her and be comfortable. If you knew my daughter you would know nothing can be done to quell her behavior she will have to simply grow out of it.

I will add that this DID not happen in the Lutheran Church we attended, people smiled and laughed at her and they had a room where she could be entertained. In the Catholic Church we got the absolute look of death from people.

I would say if your kids are old enough go to a later Mass.

You are not the boss of your family, you have abdicated that responsiblity to your daughter. She won’t grow out of it, you need to learn how to discipline her now for her own good. If you think she is a nightmare in public can you imagine how people who don’t know or love her see her? She just has a stronger will than you and she is winning the war.

 

[Ladybird3]

I am new to the Catholic Faith and I love attending mass and I love to enjoy it to the fullest aswell. I used to belong to a baptist church when I was young and their youth ministry was fabulous. They had nursery, then tiny church for 2-4 and then little church and then a teen church to keep everyone learning at their level and attention level too. How come there is no nursery in Catholic churches?? There is a little church for 4-5 but nothing before…perhaps because they do not want to be considered “babysitting” service?? I did not put that into words the way I wanted but I have been wondering why there is only a “cry room”

Thanks!