Faith alone! Is it right or wrong?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pathway2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Look at the examples offered by Christ Himself:
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ (St. Matthew 25)
21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. (St. Matthew 7)
Click to expand...
Maran atha!

Angel
 
The issue is not just circumcision but all of the doctrinal practices as well; we must read St. Matthew 5 through 7 to see Jesus’ Teaching on the fulfillment of the Law:
17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (St. Matthew 5)
Click to expand...
These changes pertain to all of the Church:
20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (St. Matthew 5)
Click to expand...
So these changes (leaving aside the prescriptions of the Old Covenant to embrace the prescriptions of the New Covenant) must take place.

Our Salvation is in our Faith in Christ through Christ Who, through the Grace of the Holy Spirit, enables us to Love (the Works that must accompany Faith).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Why did Martin Luther think Faith Alone? I do not think he is ti evil caricature trying to destroy the church. what was his own theology? We cannot go to straw man and insult, we must confront it fairy and unbiased.
 
Last edited:
And in the whole dialogue with “Protesting” believers, it’s important to recall/teach that St Paul was at odds --literally in a spiritual battle with future Catholic leaders in Jerusalem over who, what and how was salvation offered to gentiles, Greeks, pagans and nonbelievers.

“Faith alone” now means, for many Protestants and almost all Christian Evangs, simply thinking to yourself that Jesus is your savior earns you a free pass to Heaven. Talk about lowering the standards! Fr Martin Luder (his actual name) is going to take a bunch of surprised faux Christians to warmer climes when they die.
 
Actually Fr Luder was obsessed about his own eternal salvation --he thought the prevalent standard was impossibly tough and unobtainable for him and others.

Great book out is Rebel in the Ranks.
 
The best I can offer is that he somehow took a detour; the Holy Spirit indeed uses man to guide the Church or to real it back into the Path; yet, man can be lead astray by his own concupiscence (lust, not just in the sexual form); I compare Luther to St. Francis: St. Francis saw the error in the Church and addressed it while remaining in the Church; Luther saw some error in the Church and determined that he could do better by reinventing the wheel.

The issue of faith alone, as I understand it, came as he was translating the Bible into German; it seems that when he came to a particular passage he determined that St. Paul meant not “through faith” but through ‘faith alone.’:
17 For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. (Romans 1)
Click to expand...
So it is said that Luther wrote in the margin of the Bible “alone;” meaning that he changed, ‘The just man liveth by fiath.’ to ‘The just man liveth by faith alone.’

I read that in his defense of this “addition” to Scriptures he was actually translating what St. Paul meant to state–that given the limitation of the Greek/Hebrew the term ‘alone’ was implied so he added it to his personal understanding… hence, the beginning of “reformations” took place.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
And he had an ego that could push God out of the sanctuary. Kind of like St Paul… no wonder they are kindred spirits.
 
petra22
Suppose someone is on their death bed and come to believe and have faith in the promises of Jesus . . .
Click to expand...
But even with that, the person dying in a state of grace would have “hope”.

He “hopes” to go to Heaven.
ROMANS 8:24a 24 For in this hope we were saved.
Click to expand...
That already makes the equation faith PLUS hope (not faith ALONE).

The other thing is the deathbed conversion would have a repentence.

That changes the equation again to faith PLUS hope, PLUS repentence.

I would also suggest the guy who has been granted the gift of a deathbed conversion at least possesses CHARITY.

I do understand that the guy can’t do much in the way of “works” at this point (by the way. Even the Good Thief carried out the spiritual WORK of mercy of admonishing your fellow sinner when he rebuked the other thief.).

I just don’t understand how anyone can try to push “faith ALONE” unless you define “faith” partially as the NECESSITY of working according to your state in life.

I know YOU are not pushing faith ALONE here petra22. I am just musing about the deathbed conversion concept as I have heard about it often with my discussions with sola fide followers over the years.
 
Last edited:
This a problem with how Catholics and Protestants use language. Like you said alot of Evangelicals see faith alone as some kind of intellectual ascent with the assumption you’re going to repent and turn your life around. But when you talk to more theologically minded folks from older Protestant traditions they’re pretty quick to say no, that’s not how it works. Either way both groups are misled, but it’s important for us as Catholics to recognize not every version of “faith alone” is identical within Protestantism.
 
You opened my eyes!!! 👀 faith plus HOPE, YES! Hope is an action… and faith plus repentance… that is an action… I was being short sighted! Thanks for enlightening me… and the good thief rebuked the other thief! YES! ALL for the love and glory of God!
 
Wow, that is an extensive list! You seem to be very well prepared for this kind of questions.
 
Yep. I know we (the Methodists), even though we are “sola fide”, are big on faith being tied tightly to works. It was part of the appeal of the Methodist Church for me when I joined at 16. I didn’t get saying “save me” and believing it would solve all your problems. It just didn’t make sense. I mean, even my Mom had higher expectations of me than that. Surely God also expected more.
 
Last edited:
If we look at faith as a state and good work as action then the question might be reposed as

→ state or action?

What would lead to salvation?

Hope is also a state, however, charity is a mix of state/ attitude and action. Thus, in faith, hope and charity we see both state and action. But again, state and action are going hand in hand.

Like playing good golf, it is not enough to place the ball properly, thus giving it a state of chance for a good flight. You also have to hit the ball in good faith so that your action proceeds the ball to its desired location in the hole.
 
Last edited:
That is a fantastic analogy of what used to go through my head all those years ago. Brilliant.
 
Raised Lutheran we weren’t taught that faith is an isolated situation. It was the key to salvation but always that good works and actions would naturally be the byproduct of a true faith.

You can produce children but to be a parent you have to do parenting. Some parents, for various reasons, are better at it but those that are trying their best but still falling short are still parents.

Those with faith who sin but continue trying to do good are saved through their faith not condemned for their lack of measurable success.

Faith alone, in part, is about letting the judging of souls up to God and getting people to stop judging each other and focus on their own relationship with God.

I don’t have any idea how you’d argue against that.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top