Faith alone or not?

[moondweller]

The problem is that when we look to Scripture we also see indications that laying claim to our inheritance in the kingdom of God (Heaven) remains by grace, but is not at all by faith alone. This is clear in the verses I provided earlier: 1 Cor 6; Ephesians 5:5 and Galatians 5:20

The protestants I have discussed this issue with fall into 3 categories of (IMHO) denial:

1. These verses don’t apply to Christians
2. These verses arent actually talking about salvation, but about rewards in Heaven
3. These verses don’t mean what they appear to mean

In each area of denial is the underlying assumption that salvation ( = I’m going to Heaven) is by faith alone, THEREFORE IT CANT MEAN WHAT YOU (Catholics) SAY IT MEANS. This, of course, is erroneous logic in that it takes as a given that which is meant to be proven.

Anyhow, I’m waiting to here from one of our Protestant friends to rise to the challenge and point to a NT verse that describes inheriting the kingdom of God or of going to Heaven as by faith alone. I don’t hold my breath waiting…

You can’t comprehend God’s Word when you yourself try to approach Him by works, according to your own righteousness, rather than by faith in what Christ accomplished and that righteousness (“the righteousness of God”) which is reckoned, even imputed, through faith in Christ alone. Those verses you interpret as the requirements, personal qualifiers for “inheriting heaven.” But you sadly lift them out of context and erroneously apply them to the “saints,” the “holy ones,” now and forever sanctified in the risen Christ:1 Cor 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor {the} covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."Notice Paul states of the “unrighteous” that they will not inherit the kingdom of God. And then he gives a partial list as who these “unrighteous” are. But no true believer is ever called “unrighteous,” nor is he ever identified or named amongst the unrighteous in the Scriptures. That’s why he goes on to say in verse 10 (which you cannot comprehend nor accept because of your rejection of God’s grace (unmerited Divine favor) toward us who have believed what Christ has DONE, once for all, on our behalf:1 Cor 6:11 “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”.Your make the same error in Eph. 5:5 based on your works mentality. Paul is writing to the “saints” (Eph. 5:3, those made holy in Christ through faith in Him alone):Eph 5:5 *For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.*No saint, now in the risen Christ, is ever identified as an immoral, an impure, or an idolater. Therefore he goes on to write addressing the saints (holy ones in Christ):Eph 5:6-12 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light {consists} in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."Paul isn’t identifying the saints as “sons of disobedience,” but instructing them not to participate with them in their deeds of darkness, since they themselves are now “Light in the Lord,” and should therefore, “walk as children of the Light.”

This is instruction, not condemnation.

You do the same thing with Gal. 5:19-21 where Paul lists the “deeds of the flesh” vs. the “fruit of the Spirit” in Gal. 5:22-23. His instruction to the saints is that they walk NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit who now indwells them. The former are DEEDS, not identities. Every true believer still has the “flesh” while in these yet unredeemed bodies. But greater still he has the Holy Spirit in whom he is to now “walk,,” But Paul objectively states regarding the believer who now belongs to Christ (purchased by His blood) and has the Spirit who indwells him:Gal 5:24-25 "Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.These are all instructions to the redeemed, those justified and saved by grace through faith, the gift of God, not as a result of works.

But, alas, these behavioral instructions mean nothing to those who are trying to work their way into heaven. They see them only as grounds for Divine disqualification (after all, it’s based on works, right?). They cannot comprehend the words of Christ:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

 

[Pax]

You can’t comprehend God’s Word when you yourself try to approach Him by works, according to your own righteousness, rather than by faith in what Christ accomplished and that righteousness (“the righteousness of God”) which is reckoned, even imputed, through faith in Christ alone. Those verses you interpret as the requirements, personal qualifiers for “inheriting heaven.” But you sadly lift them out of context and erroneously apply them to the “saints,” the “holy ones,” now and forever sanctified in the risen Christ:1 Cor 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor {the} covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."Notice Paul states of the “unrighteous” that they will not inherit the kingdom of God. And then he gives a partial list as who these “unrighteous” are. But no true believer is ever called “unrighteous,” nor is he ever identified or named amongst the unrighteous in the Scriptures. That’s why he goes on to say in verse 10 (which you cannot comprehend nor accept because of your rejection of God’s grace (unmerited Divine favor) toward us who have believed what Christ has DONE, once for all, on our behalf:1 Cor 6:11 “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”.Your make the same error in Eph. 5:5 based on your works mentality. Paul is writing to the “saints” (Eph. 5:3, those made holy in Christ through faith in Him alone):Eph 5:5 *For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.*No saint, now in the risen Christ, is ever identified as an immoral, an impure, or an idolater. Therefore he goes on to write addressing the saints (holy ones in Christ):Eph 5:6-12 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light {consists} in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."Paul isn’t identifying the saints as “sons of disobedience,” but instructing them not to participate with them in their deeds of darkness, since they themselves are now “Light in the Lord,” and should therefore, “walk as children of the Light.”

This is instruction, not condemnation.

You do the same thing with Gal. 5:19-21 where Paul lists the “deeds of the flesh” vs. the “fruit of the Spirit” in Gal. 5:22-23. His instruction to the saints is that they walk NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit who now indwells them. The former are DEEDS, not identities. Every true believer still has the “flesh” while in these yet unredeemed bodies. But greater still he has the Holy Spirit in whom he is to now “walk,,” But Paul objectively states regarding the believer who now belongs to Christ (purchased by His blood) and has the Spirit who indwells him:Gal 5:24-25 "Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.These are all instructions to the redeemed, those justified and saved by grace through faith, the gift of God, not as a result of works.

But, alas, these behavioral instructions mean nothing to those who are trying to work their way into heaven. They see them only as grounds for Divine disqualification (after all, it’s based on works, right?). They cannot comprehend the words of Christ:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

MD in Christ,

After all of the threads you’ve participated in on this topic at CAF you should know better than to make these kinds of remarks. We do not approach God by works according to our own righteousness. We approach God by way of his grace which empowers both our faith and our works.

God bless.

 

[Pax]

MD in Christ,

Will a “true believer” that later engages in unrepentant fornication go to heaven?

Thanks,

Pax

 

[moondweller]

MD in Christ,

After all of the threads you’ve participated in on this topic at CAF you should know better than to make these kinds of remarks. We do not approach God by works according to our own righteousness. We approach God by way of his grace which empowers both our faith and our works.

God bless.

Notice your last word? Do you deny that those “grace empowered works” are needed for your future salvation and your continual justifications?

 

[Pax]

Notice your last word? Do you deny that those “grace empowered works” are needed for your future salvation and your continual justifications?

MD in Christ,

I have answered this question many times for you as have others. What part of this do you not understand as explained by us and the apostle James? Do you deny that grace inspired faith is needed for your future salvation and continual justification?

God bless.

 

[Cat_Herder]

But no true believer is ever called “unrighteous,” nor is he ever identified or named amongst the unrighteous in the Scriptures.

Ahh… “creative” accounting.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 5:8[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Cat_Herder]

Notice Paul states of the “unrighteous” that they will not inherit the kingdom of God. And then he gives a partial list as who these “unrighteous” are. But no true believer is ever called “unrighteous,” nor is he ever identified or named amongst the unrighteous in the Scriptures. That’s why he goes on to say in verse 10 (which you cannot comprehend nor accept because of your rejection of God’s grace (unmerited Divine favor) toward us who have believed what Christ has DONE, once for all, on our behalf:1 Cor 6:11 “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”.Your make the same error in Eph. 5:5 based on your works mentality. Paul is writing to the “saints” (Eph. 5:3, those made holy in Christ through faith in Him alone):Eph 5:5 *For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.*No saint, now in the risen Christ, is ever identified as an immoral, an impure, or an idolater.

So then, a “true believer” can say he/she is without sin?

 

[moondweller]

So then, a “true believer” can say he/she is without sin?

In the risen Christ he/she can. You identify yourself with sinners. The true believer identifies himself with the sin-Bearer, now “dead to sin,” reconciled to God, redeemed, justified and raised to new life in Him (no longer in Adam) - according to the Scriptures. This is the substance of salvation faith. It trusts in God’s Word concerning the “finished” work of His Son on the cross and what He accomplished there, once for all. Such faith is impossible for any who are trying to work their way into the Kingdom.

 

[paul_c]

You can’t comprehend God’s Word when you yourself try to approach Him by works, according to your own righteousness, rather than by faith in what Christ accomplished and that righteousness (“the righteousness of God”) which is reckoned, even imputed, through faith in Christ alone. Those verses you interpret as the requirements, personal qualifiers for “inheriting heaven.” But you sadly lift them out of context and erroneously apply them to the “saints,” the “holy ones,” now and forever sanctified in the risen Christ:1 Cor 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor {the} covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."Notice Paul states of the “unrighteous” that they will not inherit the kingdom of God. And then he gives a partial list as who these “unrighteous” are. But no true believer is ever called “unrighteous,” nor is he ever identified or named amongst the unrighteous in the Scriptures. That’s why he goes on to say in verse 10 (which you cannot comprehend nor accept because of your rejection of God’s grace (unmerited Divine favor) toward us who have believed what Christ has DONE, once for all, on our behalf:1 Cor 6:11 “Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”.Your make the same error in Eph. 5:5 based on your works mentality. Paul is writing to the “saints” (Eph. 5:3, those made holy in Christ through faith in Him alone):Eph 5:5 *For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.*No saint, now in the risen Christ, is ever identified as an immoral, an impure, or an idolater. Therefore he goes on to write addressing the saints (holy ones in Christ):Eph 5:6-12 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light {consists} in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret."Paul isn’t identifying the saints as “sons of disobedience,” but instructing them not to participate with them in their deeds of darkness, since they themselves are now “Light in the Lord,” and should therefore, “walk as children of the Light.”

This is instruction, not condemnation.

You do the same thing with Gal. 5:19-21 where Paul lists the “deeds of the flesh” vs. the “fruit of the Spirit” in Gal. 5:22-23. His instruction to the saints is that they walk NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit who now indwells them. The former are DEEDS, not identities. Every true believer still has the “flesh” while in these yet unredeemed bodies. But greater still he has the Holy Spirit in whom he is to now “walk,,” But Paul objectively states regarding the believer who now belongs to Christ (purchased by His blood) and has the Spirit who indwells him:Gal 5:24-25 "Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.These are all instructions to the redeemed, those justified and saved by grace through faith, the gift of God, not as a result of works.

But, alas, these behavioral instructions mean nothing to those who are trying to work their way into heaven. They see them only as grounds for Divine disqualification (after all, it’s based on works, right?). They cannot comprehend the words of Christ:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

I thought you said you understood Catholicism better than we do. Yet, you persist in saying that we are working our way to heaven. Your vanity in this regard is disapponting.

Also disappointing is your ability to disregard or bend the facts to fit your theology. Who are you kidding, other than yourself.

 

[paul_c]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Herder
So then, a “true believer” can say he/she is without sin?

Please, Moondweller, don’t insult our intelligence. Doesn’t it appear to be an argument of Satan that a Sinner can be called a Saint, just because they wish it to be so and not because they are actually holy? Every tiime a “born-again Christian” commits a serious sin, it does great damage to your argument. I they were truly “born Again”, they would not only claim to be sinless, they would actually not sin.

This is the substance of salvation faith. It trusts in God’s Word concerning the “finished” work of His Son on the cross and what He accomplished there, once for all.

Yes, we all know that the substance of salvation faith is that Faith is all that matters and actions are meaningless. Unfortunately, we all know that this is a lie. Afterall, in everyday life, when someone says something and does the opposite, we call them liars and hypocrites. So to say you are holy and then act in a sinful matter is a lie. St. Paul deals with it in 1Corithians 13 (If you have faith enough to move mountains but don’t have love, you are nothing). St. James deals with it in James 2 (Faith without works is dead). Jesus deals with it in all his moral teaching. And yet you persist in believing the lie.

Such faith is impossible for any who are trying to work their way into the Kingdom.

Such faith is impossible for those that read the whole bible and actually understand it.

 

[Cat_Herder]

So then, a “true believer” can say he/she is without sin?

[Yes, based only on your] identify[ing] yourself with sinners. The true believer identifies himself with the sin-Bearer, now “dead to sin,” reconciled to God, redeemed, justified and raised to new life in Him (no longer in Adam) - according to the Scriptures. This is the substance of salvation faith. It trusts in God’s Word concerning the “finished” work of His Son on the cross and what He accomplished there, once for all. Such faith is impossible for any who are trying to work their way into the Kingdom.

[BIBLEDRB]1 John 1:8-9[/BIBLEDRB]

GAME OVER
INSERT COIN TO CONTINUE

 

[moondweller]

[BIBLEDRB]1 John 1:8-9[/BIBLEDRB]

GAME OVER
INSERT COIN TO CONTINUE

I already addressed this here.

 

[twb1621]

In the risen Christ he/she can. You identify yourself with sinners. The true believer identifies himself with the sin-Bearer, now “dead to sin,” reconciled to God, redeemed, justified and raised to new life in Him (no longer in Adam) - according to the Scriptures. This is the substance of salvation faith. It trusts in God’s Word concerning the “finished” work of His Son on the cross and what He accomplished there, once for all. Such faith is impossible for any who are trying to work their way into the Kingdom.

MD, The true believer belongs to the Body of Christ, His Church. If you recall, I asked you previously if you can say you abide by the following verse and I don’t mean take from it only a couple words you can adapt the intention of, but as it actually means and says;

1 Corinthians CH1; 9 God is faithful: by whom you are called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment.

You confuse your position. One minute you are a “true believer” claiming to be dead to sin and the next minute you realize everyone is with sin. Which is it? If you believe you can not sin once baptized into Christ then fall to damnation if unrepentant, you are ignoring much of Scripture. I am confused with your “versatility” in interpretations and ask for clarity.
By the way, you constantly avoid my posts… is it you can not refute what I present you or are you actually missing all of them? Those you have agreed with in the past you return to post against later. If the discussion is to be honest, it should reflect credible responses.

 

[Pax]

MD in Christ,

Will a “true believer” that later engages in unrepentant fornication go to heaven?

Thanks,

Pax

MD in Christ,

I have answered this question many times for you as have others. What part of this do you not understand as explained by us and the apostle James? Do you deny that grace inspired faith is needed for your future salvation and continual justification?

God bless.

Moon in Christ,

When you get a chance please give an answer to my questions.

Thanks,

Pax

 

[paul_c]

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul c
Why is this true? Provide proof.

Your past sins can be forgiven sacramentally. There is no scripture that says your future sins are forgiven. I challenge you to demonstrate this.

Quote:
Why do you say this. Do you think Jesus sacrifice removes all sin? Or only that of believers? Or only that of believers that specifically ask or it through the sacraments? Where do you draw the line and on what basis?

yes, it is but not where you draw it

He bore the sins of the whole human race in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). And He died TO them, once for all (Jn. 1:29; Rom.6:10).

So does scripture say that all men’s sins are forgiven? Or are there mitigating circumstances where some sins are not forgiven? Do you feel that based on this passage, all men go to heaven?

Heb 9:26 “Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”
His sacrificial work is Divinely applied, in full, at the time of personal faith in Him. Jesus said:
John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.”
Note the requirement: “believe” (faith alone or not?).

Okay, so you now say that not all men’s sins are forgiven because you have found a passage that mitigates this to say Faith is required and that only those that have Faith will go to heaven. Fair enough. Have you searched scripture further to find the other mitigating factors, like being baptized, or partaking of the eucharist, or following the commandments or doing works of mercy? They are all there for those who understand scripture

Quote:
Again, what is the criteria or sin to be forgiven.

Are you sure that believing is enough to be forgiven? Have you searched scripture for other mitigating factors. Have you notice Acts 2, where Peter says you need to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins? Why would scripture say that if it wasn’t true?

Quote:
On what basis do you make your statement?

Well no, it doesn’t say faith ALONE is required. It says FAITH is required, And baptism, and eating Jesus body and drinking his blood, and Love, and following the commandments and doing works of mercy. Why do you stop at Faith. Why don’t you do all that is required?

Quote:
Again, do you believe there is a group of people that Jesus died for? All men?

All men that believe have forgiveness of sins. Because He is faithful and just to forgive them their sins and to cleanse them from ALL unrighteousness. Oh wait, now you seem to be mitigating your earlier statement with a mitigating factor from other scripture? Now you have to have Faith. So if one line of scripture can mitigate another, doesn’t it stand to reason that you need to study all of scripture to find the other mitigating factors? So if you have to have Faith, dont you also have to follow the commandments (Matthew 19), be baptiized (Acts 2), do works of Mercy (Matthew 25), eat Jesus body and drink his blood (John 6) .

 

[paul_c]

Men can stand forever pardoned before God: not because God is “gracious” enough to excuse their sins; but because there is plentiful redemption through the blood that was shed on the cross. And because of the cross God is free to forgive perfectly.

God is always free to do whatever he wanted, he didn’t need the cross for that. The Cross is for us, not for God.

Divine forgiveness cancels every debt before God, hence, the Scriptures say, “there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 8:1).

He also says: Romans 8:13: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

But Divine justification declares the sinner (the ungodly) to be forever judicially righteous in His eyes. One is subtraction, the other is addition; and both are righteously made possible through the cross.

This is your opinion. You will not find this in scripture.

Quote:
All men that are members of the Church sacramentally?

you are deluding yourself. St. Peter said you needed to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2). You just havent read enough of the bible.

---

 

[Cat_Herder]

I already addressed this here.

Here…

The Scriptures are clear on this Divine pardon for all who BELIEVE in Him. The moment I believed in Christ I knew without a doubt my sins were forgiven -.ALL of them. That’s the difference between a religious faith and a personal faith. God saves men “by grace” through the latter. A religious faith continues to seek forgiveness. Prior to a personal faith in Christ I had a religious faith. I always sought forgiveness.

… you are in a catch-22.

Either you are without sin and so do not have the truth,

OR

You are still in your sins until you confess them and so you are Catholic.

 

[clmowry]

I believe you are incorrect, it is MISguided interpretation of scripture as a whole that’s the problem not UNguided interpretation of just one chapter.

None of these thoughts are new interpretations of scripture belonging to these particular Calvinists. These are inherited interpretations from an erroneous tradition.

Chuck

Hi Phil, the reason why MD and many Calvinists err in their understanding, is because of their UNGUIDED UNINSPIRED INTERPRETATION OF ROMANS 4. Revisit this chapter and you will surely have empathy for MD & Co

 

[Philthy]

You can’t comprehend God’s Word when you yourself try to approach Him by works, according to your own righteousness, rather than by faith in what Christ accomplished and that righteousness ("the righteousness of God

 

[Philthy]

.Your make the same error in Eph. 5:5 based on your works mentality. Paul is writing to the “saints” (Eph. 5:3, those made holy in Christ through faith in Him alone):

Lets take a look…
Eph 5:5 Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving.Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Paul warns the holy ones against immorality and impurity and greed - that not only shouldnt they behave that way, but that it shouldnt even be mentioned among them. Why would he suggest that it could mentioned among them if they are the righteous as you claim??? It couldnt, of course, and your position really makes no sense with the text.
He then goes on to quite clearly point out that that no one who engages in these behaviors has any inheritance in the kingdom of God. Again, it is straight forward.
From another angle, are you claiming that Christ’s atonement is insufficient to cover the sins of immorality, impurity or greed? Y or N?
If you are not, then on what basis does Paul make the claim that those engaging in those behaviors are excluded from the kingdom of God?

Then he goes on to say…
**
Eph 5:** "*Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. *Really??? I thought the wrath of God wasnt on the diobedient, but the unbelievers. That is the central point of your theology - that faith alone is the key. And here Paul directly contradicts it: they are condemned by their actions (ie “these things”) and faith is not really even discussed. His comments are directed to believers and they are true for both believers and unbelievers: "no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God… *for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. . *

This is instruction, not condemnation.

It is both, and you havent explained why he even mentions it at all. He makes no mention of bearing witness, he makes no mention of rewards, nothing. The only thing he says is that those who do such things do not inherit the kingdom of God. Where is the faith alone talk MD? Why doesnt that term, which Paul is so frequently using when discussing being “saved” come up at all in these discussions??? Because the inheritance of the kingdom of God is not by faith alone.

You do the same thing with Gal. 5:19-21 where Paul lists the “deeds of the flesh” vs. the “fruit of the Spirit” in Gal. 5:22-23. His instruction to the saints is that they walk NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit who now indwells them. The former are DEEDS, not identities. ** Every true believer still has the “flesh” while in these yet unredeemed bodies.**

That is why (if faith alone were true) it is pointless to distinguish between believers and unbelievers by their behavior!!! Yet he does - repeatedly! So why does he point to the behaviors as meriting exclusion from the kingdom of God when, in fact, you acknowledge that true believers will be yielding to the “flesh” just as unbelievers do??? This is a central point you have no answer for. If behaviors are not what distinguish believers from unbelievers, why would he choose behaviors as a means of distinguishing them??? He wouldnt…and the fact that he does argues forcefully against your “empty arguments” IMHO

Im still waiting for you to quote a verse discussing the kingdom of God that speaks of faith alone. All you have done so far is attempted to explain away (as predicted!) those that clearly indicate a different standard.

Blessings!