Faith alone or not?

[moondweller]

I think Im gonna make this my signature now:
“You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
How could a Christian be “separated from Christ”?
How could a Christian “fall from grace”?

Blessings!

A “Christian” can’t. How do you figure he’s speaking to “Christians” (believers). Oh, he was addressing religious men, for sure. But those religious men were “seeking to be justified by law” (i.e., works, Gal. 5:4) But that wasn’t the gospel Paul first delivered to them to be believed unto salvation, for justification, but a “different gospel.” He explains:Gal 3:24 "Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith."Oh look, there it is again. FAITH ALONE. Nothing in back of it, just “by faith.”

To “fall from grace” means after having heard the gospel of God’s grace through Jesus Christ, to be believed, one instead seeks to be justified by the principle of law (works). Such a one has been “severed from Christ,” meaning Christ is of absolutely no benefit to him (Gal. 5:1-5). Those seeking to be justified by law (by the principle of works) never were believers. They never believed Paul’s gospel concerning God’s grace. Oh they heard it, but they didn’t BELIEVE it. They instead sought to be justified by the principle of law. Sound familiar?
.

 

[moondweller]

So Moondweller,
How does someone know that he really has saving faith that will ensure he goes to heaven?

It’s a faith that rests in Christ’s work alone. It’s a Christ centered faith. And the testimony of God is within him:1 John 5:10-13 "The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."The fact that you have to ask how someone knows is indication that you don’t have the testimony within you. That divine testimony is given only to those who have “believed” - according to the Scriptures.

In your sotierology, how is that covenant relationship defined?

“By grace through faith…the gift of God, not as a result of works”

 

[Calvin_95]

Start a thread on the subject of faith and works pointing to reconciling Paul and James, and we will demonstrate where you are mistaken. Or save us the trouble and search the threads on this Forum and read the very complete back and forth discussions on the subject. If you are not convinced, that is one thing, but you will never IMHO be able to negate the strength of the presentations made against your position. The truth is their for you, if you have an open mind and a prayerful heart.

The most important thing is to understand fully Catholic teaching before you go further. Thus far, it is clear to me that you do not.

God bless.

That would be fine except one thing; you can’t use James as teaching that it is not by faith alone because James is teaching that true faith RESULTS, RESULTS, RESULTS in good works God prepared beforehand for the WHO? The Christian, which means one must already be saved to be a Christian in the first place. By WHAT? Gace! Through what? Faith! In Whom? JESUS CHRIST! Why? His glory alone.

So one could debate your ideaology all day long and it would not change what Scripture teaches. I used Jesus very words to prove the point; do you not believe what the Savior has said?

Catholic teaching on Salvation in a nutshell; one must be righteous BEFORE one can be saved, because the error of blending justification into and with sanctification, contrary to what I posted by the very words of the ONLY one who can save anybody, GOD.

 

[Calvin_95]

The GRACE of God.

Only God can save. Faith alone cannot save. Works alone cannot save. Works and faith apart from God’s grace cannot save.

Salvation is a gift freely given by God, but it has a string attached. A string called the Holy Spirit, Who draws the sinner along the path of conversion, conformity to the life of Christ (aka good works). The sinner can, however, choose to let go of this string. That is called mortal sin.

Please, no more polemics about how Catholics work their way into salvation.

You are right and Jesus is wrong; you contradict the very words of the only Person who gives the grace to have faith.

Anyone who would say GRACE saves overlooks the fact that Jesus saves, by FAITH in Him. Read what Jesus said; it really is that simple.

 

[Calvin_95]

Please. To use Moon’s terminology a “true believer” would not believe “faith alone”.
For such a dogmatic position using “faith alone” you will not find faith and alone in the exact combination you stated in Scripture.

This means that what you glean out of Scripture is done by study and interpretation since your dogma is not stated in those terms. What you ask is one trust you that through some human means you have correctly identified what the author intended, that being “faith alone”. It is much better put that the concept in terms of what Scripture does say and that is “by grace through faith”.

If you have read some of Moon’s previous posts you will see he sticks in a (alone) every once in a while in that verse.

Wouldn’t it have crossed Paul’s mind that if it was “by grace through faith alone” he would have written it?

You see here is your issue you will be dealing with when the time is right; why would Paul use the word when he did not need to because he drives home the point 33 times in his writings.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, – does he really need to add “alone” to make the obvious point? no.

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. – does he really need to add “alone” to make the obvious point? no.

nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. – does he really need to add “alone” to make the obvious point? no.

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. – does he really need to add “alone” to make the obvious point? no.

Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. – does he really need to add “alone” to make the obvious point? no.

**26 They who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” 27 But He said, “The things that are impossible with people are possible with God.”

God alone is 100% pure salvation and 0% man and his activities. That one verse alone puts a death grip on most religions under the umbrella of Christianity and is so often overlooked. It is in Luke 18 and after this verse; Peter makes a statment that demonstrates his trusting in Jesus by faith alone. Hebrews 11 could be titled the “By Faith Alone” chapter.

But of course if it is not by faith alone, then what is it by? No one seems to want to touch that one; i wonder why.

 

[Calvin_95]

have you been following this thread at all?

So Calvin, obviously you have not read the last several days worth of posts. There are all kinds of things required to go to heaven, among them are the following:

• Faith (I know you want argue this point)
• Following the commandments (Matthew 19)
• Doing works of Mercy (Matthew 25)
• Eating Jesus body and Drinking his blood (John 6)
• Getting Baptized (Acts 2, 1 Peter 1)

Why do you say this? Paul says that you can not be saved by Works alone
James clarifies by Saying you can’t be saved by Faith alone either, you need works.

And as or the other Calvinistic heresy that entrance into heaven is predestined: See what Jesus says to the Sadduccees who challenged him on the resurrection in Luke 20:

34 Jesus said to them, "The children of this age marry and remarry;

35 but those who are deemed worthy to attain to the coming age and to the resurrection of the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Note very carefully that you must be WORTHY of going to heaven, which clearly says that there is personal merit involved.

And remember what St. Paul says in Romans 2:

5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,

6 who will repay everyone according to his works:
7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
9 Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, Jew first and then Greek.
10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek.

It can’t be any more clear than this. you will be judged on your works and the reward IS eternal life. Now Paul doesn’t mean that you will be judged on works alone. He spends the next few chapters of Romans explaining that Faith in Jesus is also required and that works alone won’t save (which you misinterpret as saying that ALL that is required is Faith - This is because you don’t know scripture- the same charge Jesus levies against the sadduccees, who believed scripture said that there would be no resurrection). James and Paul are completely aligned on this. It would be you who would separate them.

Here is the problem with all the works based salvation activities you mentioned above; none of it is in Scripture for the basis of salvation, but it is the result of salvation by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. your Acts 2 baptism salvation contradicts almost every other portion of Scripture where people were what? Saved, then water baptized and if you put the Acts 2:38 in its easier to read Greek to English; you will see it agrees with the rest of Scripture. Ironically, the Church of Christ folks make that same error because they use one verse and disregard the whole of Scripture, which proves the truth of Scripture as written in 1 Corinthians 2.

 

[Calvin_95]

Calvin, you obviously don’t understand Catholic Sotierology so let me explain.

Jesus did indeed come to call all sinners to himself. This is done as a complete gift, no matter what we deserve by our actions. In fact, God is constantly calling us to himself through conscience. The more we sin, the louder he calls. But we must respond positively to be saved and this done through both faith and love. This is done initially through the sacrament of baptism, which is a sign of our covenant relationship with God, Through baptism, we are cleansed of our previous sins, brought into the state of grace, and made a permanent member of Christ’s church. This is why there is only one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. On our part, we agree to do God’s will by loving God and neighbors and avoiding Serious sin. As long as we do so, we stay in the state of Grace. We can enhance god’s grace withing us by partaking of the eucharist, by which we increasingly become one with Christ by consuming his body and blood. And as grace within us becomes stronger, it becomes increasingly easy to do his will. All good works done by us are done by cooperating with God’s will. Jesus told us how to follow God’s will through his words and actions, and by giving us the Holy Spirit within us to lead us (acting through our conscience) While it all comes from God, there is merit in cooperating with him. If you aren’t doing good works, then you aren’t doing the will of the Father. This much should be obvious.

However, we can lose God’s grace as well, by turning from him through sin. Mortal sin is serious enough for us to actually separate ourselves from God. However, even when we do this, God continues to call to us through our conscience. If we respond positively, we can renew our convenant with God through the sacrament of reconciliation. by taking this step and confessing our sins to a priest representing Jesus Christ, our sins can be absolved and we can return to the state of Grace. This is through God’s mercy and despite our sinful actions.

If we end our life in the state of Grace, we will go to heaven. However, you can be in the state of grace and still be stained with the propensity to sin. If this is the case, you will be purified of this tendency in Purgatory prior to heaven, because nothing impure will enter the presence of God in heaven.

So you see. Getting to heaven does indeed start with Faith. But it also requires Baptism, the eucharist, doing works of mercy,loving God and others, following the commandments and repenting sacramentally adn most of all persistence in doing so through out our lives.

I do understand it and this is not about Catholic soteriology; this is about Biblical salvation by faith alone in Christ alone. It is funny, but no one argues it is in Christ ALONE; they just accept it? Why? Because it is say strongly implicit throughout the Scriptures, that it is explicit by nature. Same is true with faith alone.

 

[Calvin_95]

guanophore:
Very well stated, and quite accurate.

This is one of the main functions of Sacred Tradition - to help us understand the meanings of the terms in context. Your perception is consistent with the Apostolic Faith because when you read the passages, you do so from the point of view of those who wrote them.

Clearly Paul is writing his letters addressed to the believers, to be read in the Churches.

Reformers look back into history and imagine that the first century congregations contained the same mix of believers and unbelievers as they do today. They don’t realize that attending Church back then brought the possibillity of the death penalty.

Phil, I just had to respond to this very courteous and compassionate post. I have been down with the flu for a few days, and watched a number of old war movies, which I do from time to time. I read this post when my mind was still aching from man’s inhumanity to man, impressed with the vastness of the prejudice, fear, and hostility that we can have for one another. Your response to those attitudes in this post was so refreshing it was a joy to read. May we all be able to respond with such compassion for those who bear such hatred against the Church founded by Christ. And may that compassion open their eyes to see that which has been blocked out by darkness. As you have correctly noted, the darkness comes from that Father of Lies, our ancient foe.

Nice cheerleading! :clapping:

If the Catholic church was founded by Christ, then explain why the Catholic church so visible?

Read Romans 8:17-25 and see if you can figure out why I said what I just said. Then, see if you make the connection to the error in your statement. Hint: “Sons of God” are true beleivers aslo known as Christians or saints.

 

[Calvin_95]

Abraham, Ezekiel, Elijah, Zechariah, Simeone were all referred to as “righteous” or “blameless” before God and they were declared so before Jesus spoke those words. I dont get you point however, as it relates to the topic. You seem to be confused regarding my soteriology, somehow imagining that I believe one must be righteous of their own accord in order to enter the KOG. I never said that however, and you never articulated that this is what you were commenting on, but apparently you are assuming that it is obvious and that we all know what your point is without you having told us.

Referred to is your rebuttle? Guess we might as well stop here.

The thief was clearly no “in the kingdom” otherwise Christ would not have said, “…you will be with me in paradise.”

This is also irrelevant.

So paradise has now been removed from the Kingdom; hope the poor repentant thief is aware of this new development.

Actually, Jesus is the propitiation for the whole world

. We know that because the same author tells us in John 3:16 that “For God so loved the world, that he sent his only Son…” And yet we know that not everyone who Christ died for actually goes to Heaven, do they? Therefore, despite the fact that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the world, that alone, will not allow them all to inherit the KOG.

So what is the difference between those who will go to Heaven(ie inherit the KOG) and those who do not? That’s the topic of this thread at this point. One thing we know for sure, however, is that no one goes to Heaven by having a perfect propitiation for their sins alone, and that renders your intended point invalid.

No one will enter into heaven on any other basis and your error is in assuming the whole world is every single person rather than the actual context which is all people, tribes, tongues, great, small, young, old, black, white, brown etc; not every single person. What is the name of the group that teaches universal salvation? Can’t recall it so late.

Baloney. Faith is a minimum requirement. The question is whether there is anything else we must add. Have you read all the posts up til now? Your comments don’t reflect it.

No; don’t have that much time to waste; do you? So if it is not by faith alone, then what is it faith and works? If by works then what happens to grace? See your problem?

If you would like to comment on something that MD seems to be avoiding or perhaps is merely unable to respond at this time, then why not address my post 644 which very succinctly summarizes a small section of Galatians where Paul tells saved believers that if they “submit again” to the law, then they have “separated themselves” from Christ, and they have “fallen from grace” Im particularly interested in hearing your spin on the term “fallen from grace” - what does it mean in the context of the letter?

I’m sure he addressed it somewhere; perhaps you need to read ALL the posts to find it. But you assume Paul is speaking to a Christian and a Christian by defintion belongs to God, has died to self, has a new life in Christ, is indwelt by God Himself, cannot be snatched away, the old nature passed (means it is dead and has no ability to do anything-good bye old dead nature and hello new nature in Christ) away and behold new things. So the non-sense that God saves and can’t hold onto the Christian or that a Christian would care to turn back to the old night-mare life just shows what John said; they were not of us in the first place. (paraphrased and simplified for the readers understanding)

Then, what do you do with the Holy Spirit who dwells inyou which you did not put in Him there; so how doo you make Him leave; by walking away. He would just walk with you; you can’t remove Him just like you can’t put Him in there. See another problem that can’t be explained away.

 

[Calvin_95]

I fear you are right, and you will never get an answer here. MD cannot accept that God gave the Apostles any authority in this matter. To do so would cause his theology to unravel. You see, the ideas upon which his theology is based were founded upon a desire to rejec that authority. Calvin and his peers, during the Reformation, were reacting to the corruption of European clerics. They were trying to find some other source of authority with which to replace them, to purify the faith. They settled on the Scriptures. That bring us to the next reason you cannot get an answer, and that is that MD can never admit that the Church is also “God Breathed”. That would put the Church on equal footing with the Scripture in terms of nature and authority, and his deficient concept of Church cannot tolerate this.

To solve this problem, they have twisted the meanings of the words so that Jesus is just talking about preaching the gospel. That way, they can deny that He gave the Apostles any authority over and above what each believer has.

I forgot to mention, in response to MD wanting scriptural proof of where the disciples “lined up” for confession, that confession was paired with absolution through the priesthood in Lev. 5. The shadow in the OT is fulfilled in the NT.

I don’t imagine “lines” though. It seems that the early Church preferred “crowds”. We see the priestly model again with John’s baptism, where confession was paired with the washing of repentance:

Mark 1:4-5

4 John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

One has to wonder, how did the listener know that sins were being confessed, if it was not done aloud?

And again we see a similar activity in Ephesus:

Acts 19:16-20
17 And this became known to all residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks; and fear fell upon them all; and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled. 18 Many also of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. 19 And a number of those who practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all; and they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew and prevailed mightily.

How did anyone observing know that they were confessing and divulging their sins, if it was silent?

James 5: 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed.

The believers found it most expedient to confess to those to whom Jesus had given the authority on earth to forgive their sins.

The other very important element that is often missed in James is that confession is healing, and confession to “one another” is God’s way of healing our shame of sins.

Don’t hold your breath, Tomster.

Problem: If that were the case and it is in the sense that God gave Peter and all the Apostles the gospel of “our” salvation, but not in the sense that the authority is with the person, but the MESSAGE CALLED THE GOSPEL OR GOOD NEWS. Mathew 18 confirms this as He spoke the same to His disciples or LEARNERS; the wider audience.

Another problem: Show one example where an Apostle or lets just say Peter ever forgave a single tiny sin by his authority; I’ll save you the time you won’t find what doesn’t exist. you will find plenty of example by Christs authority…LOL

More problems: The last statement: confessing to one another is to keep each accountable and to build and strengthen each other and to know what to pray for each other, not for putting away SHAME. That may be a byproduct, but the statement is another fallacy.

I now wonder if anyone, besides MD knows what the gospel of Jehovah is? That is a good title for a new thread. “What is the good news?”

 

[Calvin_95]

Who are you to decide what Jesus can, and cannot do with His glorified human body? Has it not occurred to you that His glorified body is not bound to the space time continuum?

problem: Jesus said He was at the right hand of the Father to make intercession on behald of His children and the Father said ***SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL ***I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.

So either you have a point or Jesus and the Father lied to us, but I don’t think God has the capacity to lie, but men certainly do.

I think you have been given misunderstanding about the Eucharist, Moon. While we are in agreement that Jesus glorified body is not “dead” (the reason the Roman charge against Christians as cannibals is groundless), the sacrifice of the Mass (eucharist) does not constitute each and every time a new propitiatory sacrifce. Rather, it is based upon the anamnesis of the Passover, in which the participants are brought present to the event we are commanded to do rememberance. There was only one deliverance from Egypt, and likewise, only one deliverance of humanity on Calvary. During Eucharist, we participate in His “once for all” sacrifice of Himself for our sins on the cross.

i thought about the cannibalism comment and have concluded you are correct because since transubstantion can’t be found nor remotely implied, it is a piece of bread and a small portion of grape juice or wine, which was actually added later on. So cannibalism is definitely out.

I think you are making your God too small, MD. He is not restricted by the space time continuum, nor must He abide by the physical laws of the universe as we do. If this were the case, then He would not be appearing in rooms with locked doors, rising into the heavens, walking on water, etc, etc. His human body can do anything His divine will desires that it do!

No no no no no, it is you who is making God small; He can’t save and hold onto people and can’t save w/out peoples help, and the miracles you present were for a specific purpose here on earth at the right time. He is now at the right hand of the Father; unless of course you don’t believe Jesus or the Father, which by your words you do not appear to, but maybe I’m wrong…hope I am.

Nothing that is bound by the space time continuum can enter heaven, either, since heaven is outside of it. It is clear that you agree with the Catholic Teaching that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Problem: Double speaking 10 point foul.

I am not sure what this means, but something is amiss here. This comment implies that a new sacrifice of a fleshly body takes place, which is an error.

I love this; "
(a) The Mass is the same sacrifice as the sacrifice of the cross. It is now in the New Law, the sacrifice that is acceptable to God." Problem: Contradicts Hebrews 8 & 9 and the words of Jesus “IT IS FINISHED”.
Source:

Perhaps you can explain what “body of humility” means here.

Don’t know, but if the sacrafice was when He was in His Body of Humility", then why would you try to put Him back there; seems kind of mean to me? glad He is in the drivers seat; I’m sitting in the back; where are you sitting?

Think about the context, Moon. In order for the Passover to be "present’ with the Jews, they needed a slain Lamb. Our slain Lamb gave Himself “once for all”, and that is why He is made present in the Bread and Wine, and we no longer use a Lamb, as He did at His Last Supper.

Read your own words “ONCE FOR ALL” ONCE: “On one occasion”, “in one case”, “at a previous time”…hummm hummm thinking thinking hummmm

Well, don’t be sorry about it! One of the greatest blessings of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is that we step out of our humanity, and enter into eternity. It is the reason that eating the Body and Blood gives life to us.

I thought you had life because the Father breathed life into His creation and I thought He gives eternal life to whom He choses threw HIs Son by the propitiation of His righteousness to those who believe on the basis of FAITH ALONE. Is it by CHRIST ALONE?

 

[Calvin_95]

What degreee of certainty if any do you possess concerning your salvation?

Let me answer that. 100% and not on any basis of what I or MD have ever done, but rather in spite of ourselves and we have only anothers merit to rest on and He is the God-man Jesus Christ. He is so kind and so merciful; while we were yet sinners HE SAVED US, can you believe that, He is so gracious for doing this for us and we are so thankful that we can’t even express ourselves in a worthy manner, but we will worship, thank and praise Him for all eternity. We will sit right on the throne with Jesus; on the very throne, can you believe He would let us do that; I told you He was a really super-duper Person; I love Him with all my heart as much as a human heart can love. he consumes my life in my thoughts, my actions and my deeds and I can’t stop thinking about Him, when I get up he is the first thing I dwell on, throughout the day He just keeps coming into my thoughts and when i lie down He is still there; that is how much I and MD love this god-man named Jesus Christ.

 

[Calvin_95]

One hundred percent. It’s based on a vacant cross and an empty tomb.

Nice economy of words; I love it and I love you brother in Christ!!

 

[Calvin_95]

Its not a surpruse you said 100%. So there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation is that right?

Sorry; MD’s Master will not allow that.

 

[Calvin_95]

NOTHING! Will Christ reverse what He did on the cross? Will God cause my sins to be imputed back to me? Not according to the Scriptures. What Christ accomplished he accomplished “once for all.” :extrahappy:
Heb 9:26 “Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”
Those were MY sins, my friend.

MINE TOO; thank you JESUS, thank YOU!!! :bowdown:

 

[Calvin_95]

So you cant even give back your salvation if you wanted to, isnt that right? This “assurance” of salvation goes along with the concept of faith alone for protestants.

No, not necessarily Protestants, but always Christians. Hey Ignatios, is salvation in Christ alone?

 

[Calvin_95]

So why weren’t you born saved?

He was; he just didn’t know it till God removed the blinders.

 

[Calvin_95]

What happens next will be fascinating. Some believe they were “elected” by God for salvation so they have no choice either way while others say they “accept” Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior which begs the qustion what really saves you, Jesus dying or your “accepting”?

Well that is fascinating; God teaches both. Who can resist His will? When the blinders are removed by God; one sees the horrible disease he has and realizes he needs a physician and the Physician gives the prescription at no charge. Now that is personal healthcare.

 

[Calvin_95]

Why would you have the least bit of concern, it cannot be for the person sinning if his moment of personal belief came years ago? Who are you specifically concerned for? Why would it matter, in your theology whether he strayed for his marriage vows, as an example, once or a thousand times? In your understanding that moment of faith proclaimed years ago sealed the deal. It covered past, present and future sin. Personal faith saved him. I really do not understand the concern based on your constant exhortation that after personal belief in Christ one is saved.Who are you to judge others personal faith moment? Once one proclaims this faith, I imagine in his heart, the proclaimer has infalliably and without error secured his future. No future work is required, though God would like it.

Problem: A Christian can’t do that by his new nature and by that new nature he desires the things God desires; like the salvation of all men. A Christian by nature is a SLAVE of Jesus and as a SLAVE he obeys his MASTER, even unto death if necessary. Did God not prepare works before the foundation of the world that the Christian would walk in them? Well yes of course He did; He said and therfore it is true.

With a theology of personal faith … you are own arbiter of whether that faith proclaimed saved and to its geniuneness.

Ditto

I can see why one is a dung heap and the other a snow covered dung heap … you are what you are.

Ouch, that was mean spirited; you weren’t speaking to me and that was a real stinger. Not very neighborly on that one. How many people deserve to be in heaven? So if God choses to bring anyone, since noone deserves it; can He be unjust for allowing some and not others? No way!

 

[Calvin_95]

]
Im sorry, but this makes no sense. It isnt merely the context of salvation, he used the actual word “salvation”. The godly sorrow produced a repentance that leads to salvation. It doesnt require any great analysis, context or historical perspective really. It isnt that complicated. The only complicated thing about it is your ridiculous and long-winded attempt to explain away a very simple, clear statement.
At least he’s not afraid to discuss Galatians 5:4. Oh yeah - I went there!
I think Im gonna make this my signature now:
“You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
How could a Christian be “separated from Christ”?
How could a Christian “fall from grace”?

Blessings!

Now why would you want to put you eggs into a single basket; one that has nothing to do with the security of a believer; it is a contrast between law and grace as the entire Book of Galatians is. Cursed is anyone under the law. Blessed are those who walk by faith through His grace.

So to answer your question. A Christian cannot “fall from grace” in the context of Salvation. By the Christians new nature that is impossible. Good luck holding onto that verse to rebutt faith alone by grace alone in Christ alone.