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Peter_J
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Ah alright. I had read it that you were not actually saying that, just saying that you could say it.
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fpesce
Guest
Please explain what you mean…thxIndeed. This is very Catholic of you to say, fpesce!
And yet the Scriptures say otherwise, do they not?
Amen!
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PRmerger
Guest
You said:
I responded with:
The Bible is quite clear that there a multitude of things which “brings salvation”. Not ONLY believing and being baptized.
In fact, was it not St. Dismas who was assured salvation without being baptized?
And the Catholic Church believes that (among others) Moses, Elijah, and the Holy Innocents slaughtered by Herod’s edict are in heaven even though they were not baptized.
So the Bible opposes your man-made belief that “only believing and being baptized brings salvation.”
And I think you oppose your own belief, too, unless you want to tell us that Moses is not saved? Or do you have a Biblical text that says that Moses “believed and was baptized”?
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Isaiah45_9
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fpesce
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Why do call it a “man-made belief” when it is quoting Jesus own words? I do not believe you will find another quote from Jesus that contradicts it.
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stewstew03
Guest
Jesus also said…
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:21[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 25:31-44[/BIBLEDRB]
And then there’s this…
[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 20:12[/BIBLEDRB]
Finally, in Zedekiah 7:11, it says something about “thou shalt not prooftext” - or does your protestant bible not have that book…?
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Isaiah45_9
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You mean like the Bible? You know It was written by men right? Inspired by the Holy Spirit but nevertheless written by men. With man made paper, man made binding, man made ink, and so forth…
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stewstew03
Guest
Including Kindle, iPad, and web-based versions, of course…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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PRmerger
Guest
Really? “Only belief and baptism save you” are Jesus words?
Please re-post those words of Jesus here. I want to see where he says, in particular, "only.
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fpesce
Guest
These are the quotes I used:
John 3
14“Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 that all who believe may have eternal life in Him.
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal.
John 6
John 6:27-29 27
“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
47“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48“I am the bread of life.
John 8
24“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” 31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 11
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die
Mark 1:15
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
I’m fairly certain that most people know how to copy and paste. That doesn’t really do anything unless you explain your theology for the postings. By the way Mark 1:15 ironically says: “Repent and believe” Not believe only… funny how things work ah? lol.
Also, you have not replied to what is your understanding of what it is to believe.
According to you the demons, who also believe, will have eternal life
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PRmerger
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Amen!
And you are then adding to Scripture by proclaiming that baptism and belief ALONE are required for salvation.
That’s a man-made tradition that you’ve been duped into believing, fpesce.
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fpesce
Guest
I am sorry, yesterday when I posted my last post I was replying to PRMERGER post above where she wanted to see my posts on believing. and I quoted the wrong post. I really made a mess of things there.
Let me try to rectify and put into perspective what I am saying:
First of all to Isaiah45_9 and stewstew03:
"Also, you have not replied to what is your understanding of what it is to believe.
According to you the demons, who also believe, will have eternal life"
This keeps coming up: I would like to put that statement at rest once and for all. I said it before in my earlier posts Demons believe there** is a God**, indeed they know Him well. But they don’t believe in HIM! That is why that statement is so foolish. Please try to keep this post on track. That has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about here.
Believing means believing with your heart! “Saying” the words “I believe” DOESN’T necessarily mean you believe. We don’t quote enchantment prayers for salvation. That is DEMONIC!
This statement:
"You mean like the Bible? You know It was written by men right? Inspired by the Holy Spirit but nevertheless written by men. With man made paper, man made binding, man made ink, and so forth… "
Shows your lack of FAITH in GOD that HIS WORD is infallible.
To PRmerger:
In my earlier post I quoted Smith Wigglesworth. His sermon said that. I posted also that the 1st step is believing, everything else is the fruit of that 1st step, “BELIEVING”. If you believe Jesus is sent by God, is the Son of God, He died as a sacrifice for our sins. Then you will turn from your sin and follow HIM. Then your faith will grow. Then your LOVE for HIM grows. Then you’ll want to know HIM more intimately. And I could go on…
The 1st words of the Apostles Creed are:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Read more: ewtn.com/devotionals/prayers/creed2.htm
to stewstew03:
You jump to conclusions, plus you try to discredit something by bringing in something totally irrelevant to this discussion. By way I am NOT PROTESTANT. Leave that discussion for some other post.
Finally, in Zedekiah 7:11, it says something about “thou shalt not prooftext” - or does your protestant bible not have that book…?
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PRmerger
Guest
Just to be clear: you posit that the Word of God says believing ALONE (with baptism) are the requirements for salvation.
So I am still waiting for the verse(s) in the Bible that proclaim belief ALONE (with baptism) are required.
Thus far you have offered quotes from the Bible about belief and bpatism, but nothing that supports your position of belief ALONE (with baptism)
As such, it is something that you heard a man proclaim, who heard another man proclaim, who heard another man proclaim it…but not a single man ever read Belief ALONE (plus baptism) are the requirements for salvation.
It would behoove you, fpesce, to take the Catholic approach and proclaim that this is what the Bible says is needed for salvation:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10648575&postcount=44
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PRmerger
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I don’t think anyone here is proclaiming that demons are only saying the words, “We believe”.
Even the demons believe, fpesce.
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PRmerger
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I am not sure to what you are objecting here, fpesce. Are you saying that the Bible was not written by men?
Ah, so believing ALONE (plus baptism) is NOT the only requirement for salvation.
What you are proclaiming now (above) is very Catholic.
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fpesce
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Please lets put this one to rest.I don’t think anyone here is proclaiming that demons are only saying the words, “We believe”.
Even the demons believe, fpesce.
I said it before in my earlier posts** Demons believe there is a God**, indeed they know Him well. But they don’t believe in HIM!
Why am I not getting that point across to you??
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PRmerger
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Because you are not offering any Scripture verses that support your view that belief that the demons have is contrary to the belief that you are proposing is the ONLY thing necessary for salvation.
As such, what you are proposing: Belief ALONE
means that the demons are saved.
big EEK!
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fpesce
Guest
You want to keep putting that word “ALONE” and "ONLY, I keep saying BELIEVING IN HIM encompasses all the above that is needed for salvation.I am not sure to what you are objecting here, fpesce. Are you saying that the Bible was not written by men?
Ah, so believing ALONE (plus baptism) is NOT the only requirement for salvation.
What you are proclaiming now (above) is very Catholic.
If you** believe in Him**, will you not have faith in Him? Will you not Love Him? Will you not follow His commandments? Etc. etc???
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fpesce
Guest
You are mis-quoting me again. Not what I’m proposing at all.
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