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fpesce
Guest
Good, That is why Jesus went back to heaven, so our Father would send Holy Spirit (Paraclete).
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P
PRmerger
Guest
P
PRmerger
Guest
He read the Bible, which, as you say, speaks for itself.
Would you let him come and preach at your church if he said the above (which is your paradigm)?
Also, does your church have bible studies? If so, why, if the bible speaks for itself. Everyone would simply read a Scripture passage aloud and there would be nothing more to say, right, if your paradigm is correct? Everyone would just simply nod knowingly and say, “Next verse, please!”
Does your church have pastors that attended bible college?
P
PRmerger
Guest
Because Catholics take the Word of God in its entirety.
P
PRmerger
Guest
This appears to be a non-sequitur, fpesce. Were you responding to a different post?
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Right, the Holy Spirit led a man to help another man. The eunuch didn’t learn alone.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
F
fpesce
Guest
And in it’s “entirety” does it change the fact that Jesus said the very same words over and over? If it were not true then Jesus would be lying to us and that is DEFINATELY NOT TRUE.
Romans 3
3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
4May it never be! Rather,** let God be found true**, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
“THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED.”
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fpesce
Guest
Ouch, got me!
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fpesce
Guest
Yes, that is true. But didn’t St. Anthony lock himself up in a room for a year. All he had with him was the Holy Bible.
So, I guess I’ll take PRmerger’s quote and say not the bible ALONE.
C
CatholicKnight3
Guest
Don’t we think the word of God is alive and written on the hearts of men?
Jeremiah 31:33
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I have asked this question of certain protestants that insist the BIBLE is the final authority (including the NT that is now the canon) and not the church, then how are these questions dealt with?
There was no canon that we recognize today until at least 382AD.
The printing press was not invented till the 1400s, and most Christians did not have a bible to refer to for at least 1500 years or so.
The proof that the church had the authority to depart of the law of God and it is the Church that sets doctrine is shown in the Council of Jerusalem. In Acts the church showed its true power and authority by departing from the Mosaic Law. Remember, in Mathew 23:1 Christ made it clear that the Jews did have authority to set doctrine. Read it for yourself. He said, “The pharisees and saduceees sit upon the THRONE OF MOSES, therefore do all that they tell you.”
It is clear that the Church was granted the authority to depart from this authority. Again, the fulfillment of Christs words when he left the keys to the kingdom. Again, when Christ says it, it is.
When Christ says BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER, we do it. We do not question what he meant.
Instead of seeing the aspect of “walking on eggshells” see the confessional as a gift from Christ Himself. I know what you are saying though. I do. I get resentful over the struggle. That is my perpetual human condition. I have gathered that I could be struggling with faith and my failures every day till I die pretty much.
Anyway, when Christ says, “If one wants to follow me, he must deny himself, pick up his cross and follow me.”
What does it mean to pick up our cross? I thought he did it all for us. That he paid the price. Why does HE then ask us to pick up our cross?
What is the significance of Peter being asked 3 times by the Lord if he loved HIM? I think most Christians (even protestants) know the significance. Why was it necessary for Peter to say that 3 times? I mean Christ had already been crucified, and He was risen. I mean he paid the price in full right? Why then was it necessary for Peter to say I love you 3 times to make up for the 3 denials? You do believe that is why Peter was asked that right?
So, with all of that, how can any Christian truly say the bible itself is the final authority, when we know that the bible itself was not compiled for centuries after the resurrection. How can Christians claim that we need to decide for OURSELVES what the words mean? When someone says “Personal LORD and Savior” and the bible the only authority, is that a cute way of saying it is our interpretation of the bible that counts and no earthly authority?
Is that really what I am to believe? In the end, most of these arguments made by sola scriptura or faith alone Christians does not hold up to scrutiny. So, when they do not hold up to scrutiny, then it is pride that blocks the true conversion.
In other words, our natural human condition is tempted to reject authority. If protestants do not see the rotten fruit of 50,000+ churches (if not a lot more) with 50,000+ interpretations, then that is scary to me. I see and I know pride blinds us. Truly it does.
I know I struggle with my own pride. When I find myself growing nearer to Christ btw, I find myself wanting to run to a confessional to unburden myself. Yes, that sacrament is a gift from Christ, and so therefore a grace. When you see it in that light, rather than walking on eggshells, then you will know the grace as well.
Jeremiah 31:33
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
I have asked this question of certain protestants that insist the BIBLE is the final authority (including the NT that is now the canon) and not the church, then how are these questions dealt with?
There was no canon that we recognize today until at least 382AD.
The printing press was not invented till the 1400s, and most Christians did not have a bible to refer to for at least 1500 years or so.
The proof that the church had the authority to depart of the law of God and it is the Church that sets doctrine is shown in the Council of Jerusalem. In Acts the church showed its true power and authority by departing from the Mosaic Law. Remember, in Mathew 23:1 Christ made it clear that the Jews did have authority to set doctrine. Read it for yourself. He said, “The pharisees and saduceees sit upon the THRONE OF MOSES, therefore do all that they tell you.”
It is clear that the Church was granted the authority to depart from this authority. Again, the fulfillment of Christs words when he left the keys to the kingdom. Again, when Christ says it, it is.
When Christ says BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER, we do it. We do not question what he meant.
Instead of seeing the aspect of “walking on eggshells” see the confessional as a gift from Christ Himself. I know what you are saying though. I do. I get resentful over the struggle. That is my perpetual human condition. I have gathered that I could be struggling with faith and my failures every day till I die pretty much.
Anyway, when Christ says, “If one wants to follow me, he must deny himself, pick up his cross and follow me.”
What does it mean to pick up our cross? I thought he did it all for us. That he paid the price. Why does HE then ask us to pick up our cross?
What is the significance of Peter being asked 3 times by the Lord if he loved HIM? I think most Christians (even protestants) know the significance. Why was it necessary for Peter to say that 3 times? I mean Christ had already been crucified, and He was risen. I mean he paid the price in full right? Why then was it necessary for Peter to say I love you 3 times to make up for the 3 denials? You do believe that is why Peter was asked that right?
So, with all of that, how can any Christian truly say the bible itself is the final authority, when we know that the bible itself was not compiled for centuries after the resurrection. How can Christians claim that we need to decide for OURSELVES what the words mean? When someone says “Personal LORD and Savior” and the bible the only authority, is that a cute way of saying it is our interpretation of the bible that counts and no earthly authority?
Is that really what I am to believe? In the end, most of these arguments made by sola scriptura or faith alone Christians does not hold up to scrutiny. So, when they do not hold up to scrutiny, then it is pride that blocks the true conversion.
In other words, our natural human condition is tempted to reject authority. If protestants do not see the rotten fruit of 50,000+ churches (if not a lot more) with 50,000+ interpretations, then that is scary to me. I see and I know pride blinds us. Truly it does.
I know I struggle with my own pride. When I find myself growing nearer to Christ btw, I find myself wanting to run to a confessional to unburden myself. Yes, that sacrament is a gift from Christ, and so therefore a grace. When you see it in that light, rather than walking on eggshells, then you will know the grace as well.
J
josh987654321
Guest
If that were true, than why are there so many denominations of Chrisitanity and we cannot all agree?
Especially on the eucharist, I thought when Christ spoke of the eucharist in John’s gospel that it would be clear and unchanging. As he is very clear that it is his flesh and blood. But so many seem to either ignore it, or get something entirely different out of it.
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
So you say you believe in Jesus.Yes, that is true. But didn’t St. Anthony lock himself up in a room for a year. All he had with him was the Holy Bible.
So, I guess I’ll take PRmerger’s quote and say not the bible ALONE.
Does that mean that you **believe **in **everything **He said?
P
PRmerger
Guest
LOL!
You do know that St. Anthony the Hermit lived in the 5th century, right?
Do you know when the Bible became available?
Answer: while St. Anthony was praying in the desert his bishops in his Church were convening to discern the canon of the NT.
St. Anthony knew about our Lord through Sacred Tradition, through the Church and through the monastery abbots. What Sacred Scripture he knew he knew because of Sacred Tradition.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
What version of the Holy Bible did he have?Yes, that is true. But didn’t St. Anthony lock himself up in a room for a year. All he had with him was the Holy Bible.
So, I guess I’ll take PRmerger’s quote and say not the bible ALONE.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Good catch PR!LOL!
You do know that St. Anthony the Hermit lived in the 5th century, right?
Do you know when the Bible became available?
Answer: while St. Anthony was praying in the desert his bishops in his Church were convening to discern the canon of the NT.
St. Anthony knew about our Lord through Sacred Tradition, through the Church and through the monastery abbots. What Sacred Scripture he knew he knew because of Sacred Tradition.
P
PRmerger
Guest
No one is saying that Jesus’ command to believe and be baptized are not true, fpesce.
We are simply saying that Jesus did not say “That’s all you need to do.”
NOT Belief Alone (plus baptism).
As I said, we take the Word of God in its entirety.
This means that we don’t ignore John 6, Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9, 2 Cor 3:6, Hebrews 10:26, Acts 15:1, James 2:24, etc etc etc
In order for you to proclaim your man-made tradition, you need to add to Scripture (the word ONLY or ALONE), and then subtract from Scripture (all the other verses in the Bible).
You’ve been duped into believing something that the Word of God has never proclaimed: that Belief Alone (plus baptism) is what’s required for salvation.
Please note: no one is saying that Jesus didn’t say we need to believe and be baptized. Catholics give a hearty AMEN! to that! It’s the “ALONE” part which is the man-made tradition.
S
stewstew03
Guest
fpesce – can you tell me exactly what saving faith is? What does it look like? Please don’t cut/paste from the bible, I already know what the bible says. I’m looking for your summary of saving faith. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Am I saved? Thanks for your help!
.
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fpesce
Guest
Oops, didn’t know that. Sorry. What was it? Just prayer? or the OT?LOL!
You do know that St. Anthony the Hermit lived in the 5th century, right?
Do you know when the Bible became available?
Answer: while St. Anthony was praying in the desert his bishops in his Church were convening to discern the canon of the NT.
St. Anthony knew about our Lord through Sacred Tradition, through the Church and through the monastery abbots. What Sacred Scripture he knew he knew because of Sacred Tradition.
F
fpesce
Guest
Here we go again… “your man-made tradition”, “ALONE”,“ONLY or ALONE”.
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