Faith alone? Really?

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Really:D

Your comments on works is RIGHT ON:thumbsup:

Faith even through grace BY ITSELF CANNOT BE.

Biblical supported conditions/positions for meriting ones possible eternal Salvation.

Believing in God, being baptized, being a loyal member of the Catholic Church , loving God, loving our neighbor, keeping the Ten Commandments receiving the sacraments, especially Holy Communion and Confession, praying and doing good works and dying in a state of grace.”

And yes; given the space I can prove this.
Faith thru grace IS ALL THERE TRULY IS. Faith thru grace IS NOT BY ITSELF…It HAS GRACE BEHIND IT…Amazing Grace how sweet the sound…Grace makes all the difference…grace and faith is all that matters…no matter what you believe…faith and grace is the ONLY way that God is met and sins are forgiven…and we are made new creations…simple faith in God’s astounding grace MAKES all the differnce in the world.🙂
 
“Also, to me, the notion of PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR gives an implication that means that OUR PERSONAL interpretation of the bible is truly all that matters. Are you understanding the distinction and the inherent danger of this subtle difference?”

CatholicKnight,

This is a great post and shed some light on a few very important things for me. I feel you are 100% right on about Christ being the final judge.

However, I quoted this part of your out because I wanted a little further clarification. This part of the post talks about sola scripture. Which is the whole reason I am looking for the proper authority to live the proper Christian life. But I still cannot make the distinction in what protestants and Catholics believe differently on faith alone vs faith plus works. In a practical sense, they are basically saying the same thing when it all comes down to it. Honestly, I feel like faith alone is a horrible term that Luther and Protestants use to explain the same beliefs as Catholics that many Protestants adhere to. I can’t understand why this is so much of a point of division.

Sola scripture on the other hand, which I feelyou alluded to in the quoted portion of the text is obviously a point of division between the two. There must be something I am missing because many intelligent people are really passiontpate about this issue which is obvious from the multiple post on this subject and the information I have found discussing it. But it seems to me a argument about nothing except using different terminology for the same thing.

Anyways, I really appreciate your post because it gave me some real insite on Gods judgement and the importance of us not to be judgemental of those who have differing beliefs. God Bless you.
 
“Also, to me, the notion of PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR gives an implication that means that OUR PERSONAL interpretation of the bible is truly all that matters. Are you understanding the distinction and the inherent danger of this subtle difference?”

CatholicKnight,

This is a great post and shed some light on a few very important things for me. I feel you are 100% right on about Christ being the final judge.

However, I quoted this part of your out because I wanted a little further clarification. This part of the post talks about sola scripture. Which is the whole reason I am looking for the proper authority to live the proper Christian life. But I still cannot make the distinction in what protestants and Catholics believe differently on faith alone vs faith plus works. In a practical sense, they are basically saying the same thing when it all comes down to it. Honestly, I feel like faith alone is a horrible term that Luther and Protestants use to explain the same beliefs as Catholics that many Protestants adhere to. I can’t understand why this is so much of a point of division.

Sola scripture on the other hand, which I feelyou alluded to in the quoted portion of the text is obviously a point of division between the two. There must be something I am missing because many intelligent people are really passiontpate about this issue which is obvious from the multiple post on this subject and the information I have found discussing it. But it seems to me a argument about nothing except using different terminology for the same thing.

Anyways, I really appreciate your post because it gave me some real insite on Gods judgement and the importance of us not to be judgemental of those who have differing beliefs. God Bless you.
The difference between faith and works can be semantics. However, in the case of protestants, it is an excuse to reject the church as the pillar of truth. Instead, they say the bible (their interpretation) is the final authority.

So, when the Catholic Church sets doctrine, they feel no obligation what so ever to follow it. In fact, they believe it is a sin to follow anything the church says.

There are many examples, and they see the Church as the whore of Babylon. Mainly due to what they perceive as idolatry when the the Church “prays to saints,” or they see the Eucharist celebration as “re-crucifying Christ.” They tend to hold it against the Church and equate these “traditions” as human inventions. They use Christ’s words to justify this when Christ spoke to the Jews and their false traditions that tied burdens on people’s backs.

The way Catholics see this is Paul actually writes that we much HOLD FAST to the traditions just as WE have passed them on. Logic says the early Christians and Christians for at least the first 1300 or 1400 years did not even have a bible to refer to. The canon was not set until at least the end of the 4th century. The average person (typical Christian) for 1500 years did not even know how to read or write. The poor, were not allowed to be educated. Many of these things are explained away that the Church deliberately kept the word from the lay people in order to control the masses.

Well, there was certainly an inherent danger (which has proved to be very true) with allowing everyone to own their own bible and take from it what ever they want. This has been (imo) a real weapon for the devil to use to divide the church. To splinter it into thousands of pieces. To make it so divided that it is very difficult to not fall into scrupulosity. Something I suffer from greatly through out my life. It is hard enough to be faithful to one faith, let alone not even knowing if that faith is even the true one to begin with.

For me there has to be authority here on earth. If a sola scirptura Christian was truly following the scripture, then they would see where in 1 Timothy 3:15 says the Church is the pillar of the truth.

For those Christians that have problems with saints like Mary being the mother of ALL Christians, and want to know where that is backed up in the SCRIPTURE, I am going to say that Christ said from the cross, to BEHOLD YOUR Mother. Not behold MY mother, but YOUR mother to John (disciple whom HE loved.) I have been told by a protestant that verse does not mean that it refers to US as Christians but to John. Not US. To that, I find curious. I had just asked that protestant if he thought if everything that Christ said as recorded in the gospels was for an eternal purpose? He just said yes. So, when he suggested that one of the last things said from the cross was for a temporal purpose, then that means everything else Jesus said according to the gospels was for eternal purpose, with the exception of that? I asked, how do you get to the place where you can actually claim that?

Continued…
 
“Also, to me, the notion of PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR gives an implication that means that OUR PERSONAL interpretation of the bible is truly all that matters. Are you understanding the distinction and the inherent danger of this subtle difference?”

CatholicKnight,

This is a great post and shed some light on a few very important things for me. I feel you are 100% right on about Christ being the final judge.

However, I quoted this part of your out because I wanted a little further clarification. This part of the post talks about sola scripture. Which is the whole reason I am looking for the proper authority to live the proper Christian life. But I still cannot make the distinction in what protestants and Catholics believe differently on faith alone vs faith plus works. In a practical sense, they are basically saying the same thing when it all comes down to it. Honestly, I feel like faith alone is a horrible term that Luther and Protestants use to explain the same beliefs as Catholics that many Protestants adhere to. I can’t understand why this is so much of a point of division.

Sola scripture on the other hand, which I feelyou alluded to in the quoted portion of the text is obviously a point of division between the two. There must be something I am missing because many intelligent people are really passiontpate about this issue which is obvious from the multiple post on this subject and the information I have found discussing it. But it seems to me a argument about nothing except using different terminology for the same thing.

Anyways, I really appreciate your post because it gave me some real insite on Gods judgement and the importance of us not to be judgemental of those who have differing beliefs. God Bless you.
So, when Christ says to BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER from the cross. He then looked up and said EVERYTHING WAS FINISHED. Read the gospel of John to get perspective.

So is there anything more to show that it is right to not just BEHOLD OUR MOTHER, but it is also GOOD to ask her to pray for us. In Revelation chapter 12, it clearly descirbes the woman that gave birth to the male CHILD that was caught up to the throne of God and sits at HIS RIGHT HAND. Well, it is hard to not see who that woman is that was crowned with 12 stars. Yes, protestants will say that refers to Israel, not Mary.

Well, a few things about that. One, at Revelation 12:17, it says, “The devil went off to wage war with the res of her offspring. All those who bear witness to Christ, and keep his commandments.” Well, when we combine that verse with what Christ said from the cross to the disciple that was bearing witness and keeping his commandments in John, we can see how those words are indeed eternal. We can also see why John was at the foot of the cross in the first place. From what I gather, John was the only disciple of the 12 to take the first EUCHARIST in grace. Why? Cause he was the only one to acknowledge his unworthiness when he leaned on Jesus’s chest and asked him, Is it I when Christ said one of them was going to betray Him. That was not a small thing that happened between Jesus and John. In fact, later in Johns gospel, Peter asks Jesus about the disciple that reclined at His chest.

Look at the other disciples during the supper. When Christ said one of you will betray, they slowly said TO THEMSELVES, SURELY NOT I. Boasting inside. Peter during the last supper, openly declared that he would never betray. He openly exalted himself. So, it was at those words that Peter was then DESTINED to deny Christ OPENLY. The other disciples? Well, there is no account of them being at the cross. What does that mean? It means, that they were also afraid to be WITH Christ. They denied him INWARDLY as they exalted themselves INWARDLY.

John, the only one of the 12 to acknowledge and be humble, was the only one to have the grace to be there at the cross. Therefore, since he walked in the spirit, was led to the foot. Right where the Holy Spirit leads us all when he walk in faith. Therefore, those words become eternal. It also illustrates the Trinity when Christ comforted his mother, even in his worst suffering and revealed to her that she was the mother of all his faithful. Not just Christ, cause even though He is dying, he is also living. With in his beloved disciple. The Holy Spirit.

This here is an example of the words being alive. Not just words printed on pages or carved in stone.

The living word is just that. Living.

It did not END with the last book of the bible. The Holy Spirit still inspires people as HE inspired people.
 
=rfournier103;10616688]If one looks at “faith alone” in it’s literal sense, than there really is NO basis for it in Scripture. In fact, “faith alone” does not appear in the Bible al all, does it?
Let us look at Rev. 22:11-12… “Let the wicked still act wickedly, and the filthy still be filthy. The righteous must still do right, and the holy still be holy. Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds.”
Italics and bold are mine.
If we are to be saved by faith; does not our faith in Jesus Christ mean that we must live here on earth as He has commanded us? If all we need is faith alone to be saved, what need have we of ministers, priests, prayer, going to church, the Bible, baptism, and all the other Sacraments?
My faith in Jesus Christ means that not only do I believe in Him (ie: Son of God, died for us, rose again), but that I must put His teachings into practice.
I think many Christians may not understand what “faith” in Christ really means.
I’m a 'Pat’s fan too" but check this oit:

Douay Bible and the King James Bible

James 2:24
DR B: 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

New King James Version (NKJV)
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only
 
Dear frewind in Christ,

Perhaps your prior churches teacing is not on Faith Alone; [even faith through grace alone], but htis does remain the primary philosophy of MANY, including Fundementalist-christians.

While your seeking a new church, please consider these facts [biblically provable too]😃

Because there is only one TRUE God

Logically there can be ONLY One True set of Faith beliefs by this One God

And Christ Founded only One chuurch with its One SET of Faith beliefs.

Truth is and must be singular per defined item

Certainly Jesus did not wait for The Great Eastern Schism; King Henry VIII or Martin Luther to make HIS Teachings; HIS One True and COMPLETE Faith known:shrug:

PRAY MUCH my friend. The HS has blessed you and lead you to CAF for a specific reason. Amen.
well friend-- if there is no change in your life while attending any particular “religious church”
it is a clue that that problem is either the religious organization or the problem is you–

now i have seen many people have life changing experiences with in the warm and fuzzy - by christ alone message-- youtu.be/HxQkdD0pu_Y

say this heart felt prayer-- and the holy spirit will change you – actually can work–

and religious people some time get mad – because it not in their theology–

when looking at all these catholic and christian forums-- i just shak my hear-- when i recognize all these mature trolls
 
=fredplont;10629308]well friend-- if there is no change in your life while attending any particular “religious church”
it is a clue that that problem is either the religious organization or the problem is you–
now i have seen many people have life changing experiences with in the warm and fuzzy - by christ alone message-- youtu.be/HxQkdD0pu_Y
say this heart felt prayer-- and the holy spirit will change you – actually can work–
and religious people some time get mad – because it not in their theology–
when looking at all these catholic and christian forums-- i just shak my hear-- when i recognize all these mature trolls
Hi Fred 🙂

God can do any good thing! Amen!👍

That said Satan too, as the “father of lies”, has enormouss powers of Persuasion.

Be careful:rolleyes:
 
Hi Fred 🙂

God can do any good thing! Amen!👍

That said Satan too, as the “father of lies”, has enormouss powers of Persuasion.

Be careful:rolleyes:
Satan is defeated…he has no authority over the People of God. We can be confident in Whom we Hear and follow…satan lost the battle when the tomb became empty. Death died at the resurrection.

“Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world…be of good cheer I have overcome the world.”
 
Sometimes the bible can be a little bit confusing, I haven’t been able to read the whole thing for that reason. If you ask a thousand different people the same question you will get a thousand different answers, sometime I just rely on my own instincts. What are your instincts telling you?
 
=Publisher;10631403]Satan is defeated…he has no authority over the People of God. We can be confident in Whom we Hear and follow…satan lost the battle when the tomb became empty. Death died at the resurrection.
“Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world…be of good cheer I have overcome the world.”
Really:D

So abortion, rape, murder, theft, slander, greed; and so on and so forth are?🤷

Interestering position.🙂 Based on what evidence?

Who was it that said:
Rumors of MY death have been exagerated?😃
 
Sometimes the bible can be a little bit confusing, I haven’t been able to read the whole thing for that reason. If you ask a thousand different people the same question you will get a thousand different answers, sometime I just rely on my own instincts. What are your instincts telling you?
This is exactly why the church was formed. This is why the Church is the pillar of truth. 1st Timothy 3:15.

This is why it is so necessary for there to be a final authority.

You have defined the exact reason why.
 
“Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 7:21). (Works)

“One came up to him, saying, `Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?’ And Jesus replied ‘If you would enter life, keep the commandments’” (Matt. 19:16 17). (Works)

“He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him” (John 14:21). (Works)

“But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by perseverance in good works seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury” (Rom. 2:2 8). (Works)

“You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love” (Gal. 5:4 6). (Works)

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:8 10). (Works and Faith)

“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:12 13). (Salvation not a given)

“What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled,' without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But some one will say, You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, `Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness’; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (Jas. 2:14 24). (Works AND Faith)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Can lose your Salvation)
1 John 2:3 4 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
 
=Publisher;10619563]Faith thru grace IS ALL THERE TRULY IS. Faith thru grace IS NOT BY ITSELF…It HAS GRACE BEHIND IT…Amazing Grace how sweet the sound…Grace makes all the difference…grace and faith is all that matters…no matter what you believe…faith and grace is the ONLY way that God is met and sins are forgiven…and we are made new creations…simple faith in God’s astounding grace MAKES all the differnce in the world.🙂
So my friend; Is Jesus a perfect God, unable to error?

John 3:5

Mt. 19:17

are good beginnings to find out?
 
Satan is defeated…he has no authority over the People of God. We can be confident in Whom we Hear and follow…satan lost the battle when the tomb became empty. Death died at the resurrection.

“Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world…be of good cheer I have overcome the world.”
I agree, in so far as that goes. Still we have to be careful … just consider the Salem Witch Trials, or the Spanish Inquisition if you like. Clearly people who claim to be following God can make terrible mistakes.
 
I agree, in so far as that goes. Still we have to be careful … just consider the Salem Witch Trials, or the Spanish Inquisition if you like. Clearly people who claim to be following God can make terrible mistakes.
Yes they can…that’s why one’s actions define whether the inward workings of the Spirit are authentic thru faith or whether it’s “empty words and clanging cymbals”
 
JAMES 2:24
KING JAMES BIBLE

**24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified , and not by faith only. ** 🤷

:
Then what are the “works”?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
 
=fpesce;10639899]Then what are the “works”?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Unspecified in specificity because BY THEM SELF they cannot; and DO NOT “cause or merit one salvation”🙂

From John 13:34-35 “A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.” PLEASE Read james chapter TWO; its short and explains the answer to your great question in detail:thumbsup:
 
Then what are the “works”?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Hi fpesce, Indeed ! And the work Jesus does; He gave Himself to us in the form of bread and wine,after all God can do anything ! Don’t all Christians believe this ?

God Bless
onenow1:) :coffee:
 
Unspecified in specificity because BY THEM SELF they cannot; and DO NOT “cause or merit one salvation”🙂

From John 13:34-35 “A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.” PLEASE Read james chapter TWO; its short and explains the answer to your great question in detail:thumbsup:
Wouldn’t you have to first believe in the One who sent Him, so then you would follow His commandments. True?
 
=fpesce;10642513]Wouldn’t you have to first believe in the One who sent Him, so then you would follow His commandments. True?
Not IF we Understand that God is ONE:D

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.

Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator is not of one: but God is one.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

God Bless you,
 
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