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fpesce
Guest
Okay, i guess I wasn’t clear. But at least it should be now.
When I answer your long post… What was it that you disagreed with?
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fpesce
Guest
I’m not a hippe, I have short hair, no drugs no smoking no flower power. JUST JESUS. But that was funny.Fixed
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fpesce
Guest
Where else in the church. I don’t get where your going with that.
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stewstew03
Guest
Because you quoted a Pentecostal preacher, Smith Wigglesworth, as your authority in response to PRmerger’s contention that faith cannot be alone.
You are the only practicing Catholic that I know who has quoted a Pentecostal preacher to back up his beliefs…
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stewstew03
Guest
So, what did you mean here, when you said:
“Only believing and being baptized brings salvation.”
???
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fpesce
Guest
Are you telling me, no Catholic should read anything from non-Catholic, but Christian publications?
Like we as Catholics can’t learn anything from Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, William J. Seymour, MARIA Woodworth-Etters, Oral Roberts, Kathryn Kulman, Aimee McPherson, etc etc.
Not that we can’t learn from Padre Pio, Mother Teresa, Father DeOrio, St Anthony. St Cupertino, St Aquinas, Pope John Paul II, St. Faustina, Saint Bernadette Soubirous, etc etc.
What a waste.
Sorry I won’t do that. If that makes me protestant, hindu, muslim, what ever you want to call me, go ahead. God knows me and His opinion matters to me.
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fpesce
Guest
I guess PR, you got me. If you don’t want to take my explanation that believeing has to encompass all the rest that is needed then, I’M WRONG.
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Isaiah45_9
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Just kidding bro’I’m not a hippe, I have short hair, no drugs no smoking no flower power. JUST JESUS. But that was funny.
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fpesce
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No offence taken, That was funny, seriously. Taken in humor. I still want to know where you found the picture of that guy in the tye dye shirt. hilarious!Just kidding bro’
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CatholicKnight3
Guest
Yeah. I think over many of the things I have said, and trust me I have a lot of things that I am going have to answer for.
I struggle with faith every day. Overwhelming sense of doubts. I have been told by a Calvinist that I am going to hell, cause of Hebrews 6:4-6. I am indeed guilty of what that verse says. No getting around that.
I do suffer from scrupulosity. Where I am often paralyzed in some kind of a fear. Yes, I do struggle.
I will say this though. I need to at some point trust. That is another big issue for me. Trust. I wonder if my confessions are right. I wonder if I pray correctly. I wonder if the Catholic Church is the true Church as it claims to be. I wonder, wonder and wonder.
I am tired of constantly doubting and wondering. It does prevent me from growing. I would suggest you do a class (I just finished one at my Parish in Jupiter) called Catholicism.
There is a new series on this and I am sure there is some church in your diocese that will doing this series. If you cannot do that, there is a DVD set. It is very very good. All of the questions we have, and doubts are explained.
Catholicism series Father Robert Barron. Look that up and if you get a chance I would consider purchasing that. Yes, this priest Father Robert Barron is truly ideal in the way he presents this series. He has a true unique manner in how he communicates the issues.
For me, it is essential that the Church is what she claims to be. That the sacrament of confession is real. That all of the sacraments are real. In todays world, I do not think I have ever known how under attack we are for our beliefs. It is hard enough with the molestations, and corruptions with money and the history of shameful acts.
Well, a few things about those things. One, I am a very shameful person myself. I am no saint, believe me. Also, Christ says this. “If a person keeps my commandments, then he is like a wise man that builds his house on a ROCK. That when the winds and floods come, the house shall remain. If a person does not put into practice what I say is like a fool that builds his house and unstable foundations. That when the winds and floods come, it shall be washed away.”
Couple that with the on going debate of gay marriage, and how many different “churches” are performing this in front of an alter. Thinking that God is approving of it. Again, these churches are not faithful. They do not hold fast to the traditional sacraments. Many of them speak out against the Church and call her the whore of babylon. Well, like Christ says, many of them are being washed away with the teachings of the world.
It is difficult to remain. I wonder if I will be able to persevere. I would suggest you grow in the faith that you proclaim to believe in. That way we can all remain steady.
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fpesce
Guest
That reminds me of the teaching in Luke 8:9
His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant. 10And He said, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
Code:
11“Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12“Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14“The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. **15“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance**.You have an honest and good heart, so just hold fast to your faith and presevere, my brother, you will bear good fruit in due time.
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flipmode
Guest
It’s not “my” doctrine, the only doctrine I follow is the gospel of Jesus Christ, as laid out by His Word. Professing that Jesus is my Lord is a fruit or result of a changed heart, which has to come first and only comes from accepting God’s gift of grace through faith in what Jesus did at Calvary. A person who does that in faith, is not only forgiven of his sins, but also justified because Jesus was raised from the dead, thereby defeating death and sin once and for all. God gets all the glory and honor for saving me. There’s nothing I could ever do to add, earn, or repay that, past, present, or future. It is His work, and His work alone. The sin nature that I was a slave to is put to death, and replaced with a new nature born of the Holy Spirit. With that new spirit and with the Holy Spirit guiding, Jesus Christ lives in me and the good works that follow are fruit of that miraculous change. This fruit is physical evidence of that miracle of grace, not a cause or preservation of it. With the same way we received God’s grace through faith, we are to follow the Holy Spirit, through faith. The works that result after are just a physical manifestation of that faith.
Actually, this canon is specifically saying that justification by God’s grace is preserved and increased by our good works. It condemns or curses the notion that the works are a fruit of God’s grace. Grace by definition is unmerited favor. It is favor that we don’t deserve or earn. So if God’s grace is preserved or increased by our good works, then grace is no longer grace. It rather becomes payment for our good works. The result then is that the person will live his or her life always trying to be good enough to earn God’s grace, or else he’ll lose it. The burden of trying to live that kind of life will lead to either righteous pride in oneself or constant guilt from sinning.
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Isaiah45_9
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Going Hippie mode for a sec
Faith without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.
Faith without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.
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CatholicKnight3
Guest
What does it mean when He said we need to pick up OUR CROSSES?
What if you have faith to move mountains, but do not have love?
Read Mathew 25:31-46 and explain it. Please do not tell me it does not mean what it says.
When Jesus blessed are the merciful, explain merciful.
Did the good Samaritan know Christ? Did he serve Christ?
Does a person need to be consciously aware they are serving Christ, in order to serve Christ?
If so, then explain Mathew 25:37 for me.
Thanks
What if you have faith to move mountains, but do not have love?
Read Mathew 25:31-46 and explain it. Please do not tell me it does not mean what it says.
When Jesus blessed are the merciful, explain merciful.
Did the good Samaritan know Christ? Did he serve Christ?
Does a person need to be consciously aware they are serving Christ, in order to serve Christ?
If so, then explain Mathew 25:37 for me.
Thanks
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PRmerger
Guest
Amen!
So all this time you have NOT been arguing for Belief Alone (plus baptism)???
No, fpesce.
Originally, you proclaimed this, and I quote:
You have, it appears, rescinded this comment. I applaud you on this.
You realize that there is much, much more than “ONLY” believing and being baptized that brings about salvation.
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Deconi
Guest
God rules over all creation. Whilst theologians do their best, no one man can espouse the complete Divine Mind!
Christians have a habit of looking sideways at each other and comparing themselves with others who persevere in the ‘field’ of The Creator.
The Church holds that ONLY God can judge any soul however He chooses. We can only know what He reveals - through Scriptures, Inspiration, etc as taught and conducted through Sacred Tradition.
I opine that an Atheist can be saved through his own deeds if he conducts them for the good of others, even though he may be IGNORANT of God. The Samaritan is the example because Samaritans didn’t believe in God and were considered ‘low-lifes’ by Jews (who are the people of God) Yet the Samaritan was not exercising a ‘faith’ act, but simply did what he thought was right by another human being, and didn’t even leave his name with the innkeeper!
THAT - is the example for Christians to follow! Not spend time trying to ‘justify’ their understanding of Holy Writ, BUT DO ‘good works’ simply because it needs to be done! LEAVE corrections and judgement to God. That is His business!
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PRmerger
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Well, flip, that’s exactly what we Catholic profess, too!
At what point did Cornelius accept God’s gift of grace through faith in what Jesus did at Calvary?
Acts 10:2-5
2 He was a devout man who feared God with all his household; he gave alms generously to the people and prayed constantly to God. 3 One afternoon at about three o’clock he had a vision in which he clearly saw an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius.” 4 He stared at him in terror and said, “What is it, Lord?” He answered, "Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa
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PRmerger
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Amen! And the fact that we baptize infants, who have done nothing to add, earn or repay the atoning death on Calvary limns this doctrine quite nicely.
Amen! This is very Catholic of you to say!
This occurs at each and every baptism, flip.
Amen!
True, dat.
Where?
I think the fact that we baptize infants proclaims that we don’t believe what you are professing Trent says.
Or are you wanting to maintain that babies, when they are baptized and infused with sanctifying grace, have done some good work to earn this grace?
That’s why Catholics don’t profess that God’s grace is earned by our good works.
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flipmode
Guest
Same way all the believers in the Old Testament were justified, by God’s grace through faith. Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness. It was Abraham’s faith in God and His promise that God would make him a great nation. So when God tested Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham still trusted God and His promise even though God just told him a seemingly contradictory command in sacrificing Isaac. His actions resulted from his faith(trust). Throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament, it is God’s grace through faith. Now that we’re in the New Testament, that figure of perfect faith and sacrifice is Jesus Christ. Everything in the Old Testament, New Testament, history points to what Jesus did at Calvary. That’s the central corner stone.
So if the infant perishes without being baptized, does that infant go to hell? If so, so it’s a work then that conveys grace?
If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works,[125] but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained(cross at calvary), but not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema. (Trent, session 6, chapter 16 and canon 24).
Since babies are not aware of their own actions, it is God’s mercy that is given upon them by God himself. Do you know how many babies/infants/toddlers die daily globally without being water baptized?
If you believe in canon 24 as stated above, it says you have to preserve and increase grace by works. Therefore, you are earning grace. Grace is no longer grace if it’s earned.
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