Faith and Science

[jomoco]

The Bible itself does not contain the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Sola scriptura is a false doctrine. The keys to the kingdom of heaven were given to the pope. So to say that if I had to choose between the Bible or the Church and its sacraments then I would choose the Church and its sacraments. Without them it is extremely difficult to enter the kingdom of heaven and less likely we will ever know it.

I love the way so very many of you speak in such absolute terms, while noting that your more recent Popes avoid the same mistake, having learned their history.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[Ranp]

I love the way so very many of you speak in such absolute terms, while noting that your more recent Popes avoid the same mistake, having learned their history.

Jomoco

We do speak in absolute terms in saying the Bible itself does not contain the keys to the kingdom of heaven because the Bible itself clearly states that the keys to the kingdom of heaven was given to Peter (Matthew 16:19). We do speak in absolute terms in saying that Sola scriptura is a false doctrine because the Bible says that we are to follow both Scripture and Tradition. This is the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church, which the Bible says is the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).

Ran

 

[jomoco]

Jomoco

We do speak in absolute terms in saying the Bible itself does not contain the keys to the kingdom of heaven because the Bible itself clearly states that the keys to the kingdom of heaven was given to Peter (Matthew 16:19). We do speak in absolute terms in saying that Sola scriptura is a false doctrine because the Bible says that we are to follow both Scripture and Tradition. This is the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church, which the Bible says is the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).

Ran

So I gather in your learned wisdom there are no hidden mysteries in the Bible?

Why do I seriously doubt that any of your Popes, past or present, would deny that the Bible contains hidden mysteries in abundance?

Care to speak absolutely again my friend?

jomoco

 

[Ranp]

Jomoco

My reply was in regard to your post about the “Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven” and to “Sola scriptura”.

Ran

 

[jomoco]

Jomoco

My reply was in regard to your post about the “Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven” and to “Sola scriptura”.

Ran

You might find the words of your own Pope, John Paul II educational and very enlightening.

The entire Christian mystery rests on the incarnation, the embodiment of God. Thus, it should not surprise us that John Paul’s catechesis deals with the body as a theology. As he puts it, “Through the fact that the Word of God became flesh the body entered theology…through the main door” (General Audience 4/2/80). As the Holy Father challenges us to see, the human body possesses a “language” which enables it to proclaim and make present the eternal plan and mystery of God. “The body, in fact, and it alone, is capable of making visible what is invisible: the spiritual and the divine. It was created to transfer in the visible reality of the world the invisible mystery hidden since time immemorial in God, and thus be a sign of it” (General Audience 2/20/80). This stunning declaration brings us to the summit of John Paul’s anthropology, crystallizing his entire catechesis on the body. The human body reveals the mystery of God!

End Quote

Sound familiar my friend?

jomoco

 

[ClairUK]

The Bible is a theological work, not an historical work or a scientific work. It is infallible on theological matters, not historical or scientific matters. It is just one of many ancient references when it comes to historical matters or scientific matters.

The only scientific issues regarding which the Bible is infallible are those which are required for a theological principle. For example, Jesus must have lived, died and resurrected. But, the Flood need not have happened…certainly not precisely as told. Man need not have been created in the form in which he now exists. The Genesis stories can be allegory, and evolution could have occurred. (I believe evolution is the best explanation we have available to us now, and Pope John Paul has said as much.) The Genesis stories are there to teach theology, not to teach history or science.

Granted, many religious people believe the Bible is historically/scientifically infallible. But such belief is not required by the Catholic Church. I cannot speak for protestant faiths, who seem to wrestle with Creationism more than Catholics do. (After 17 years of Catholic education, I met my first adult creationist at my first job. Needless to say, he was not Catholic.)

In the final analysis, the Catholic Church does not teach any factually disprovable concepts which science can challenge. Thus, the Catholic Church is in perfect, inevitable harmony with science.

Just wanted to say how much I like this response…

 

[ricmat]

You might find the words of your own Pope, John Paul II educational and very enlightening.

The entire Christian mystery rests on the incarnation, the embodiment of God. Thus, it should not surprise us that John Paul’s catechesis deals with the body as a theology. As he puts it, “Through the fact that the Word of God became flesh the body entered theology…through the main door” (General Audience 4/2/80). As the Holy Father challenges us to see, the human body possesses a “language” which enables it to proclaim and make present the eternal plan and mystery of God. “The body, in fact, and it alone, is capable of making visible what is invisible: the spiritual and the divine. It was created to transfer in the visible reality of the world the invisible mystery hidden since time immemorial in God, and thus be a sign of it” (General Audience 2/20/80). This stunning declaration brings us to the summit of John Paul’s anthropology, crystallizing his entire catechesis on the body. The human body reveals the mystery of God!

End Quote

jomoco

Jomoco - could you explain what kind of point you are trying to make?

The words of JP2 above are indeed educational and enlightening.

 

[jomoco]

Jomoco - could you explain what kind of point you are trying to make?

The words of JP2 above are indeed educational and enlightening.

Perhaps more so than many of you fully realise!

Thank you for asking!

John Paul’s “Theology of the Body” comes so very close to my own Gen 7 research project’s goal in both time and intent that it’s almost scary.

For any of you that haven’t read John paul’s amazing work, I heartily encourage you to do so now.

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tbind.htm

For any of you unfamiliar with my Gen 7 project, I humbly suggest you read my thread posted in this very forum entitled “Reconciliation of Christianity and Science?” now.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=559638

There are aspects of Gen 7 that I have not revealed yet on this website, though all that I have posted to date is absolutely true.

There is no doubt that a very tangibly real convergence of Christianity and science is currently taking place in medical research labs in various locations both here and abroad.

That John Paul II did not live quite long enough to behold these events is sad. But I have no doubt that by the grace and glory of our Christian God John Paul II will live again to shout the Glories and Mysteries of God made manifest once again in this world.

Respectfully,

jomoco