Falcon Heights Shooting

[gus]

The phone advice was going to be my recommendation to everyone, but particularly anyone in the black community. Always have it easily accessible and begin recording if approached by any police officers for any reason no matter how mundane. As this incident shows, even getting pulled over for something as innocuous as a broken tail light (which seriously who still pulls over people for broken tail lights?!) can get you shot and killed if the cops aren’t given added incentive to behave properly. Knowing they’re on video from the start might just be that incentive. And be sure to have all video immediately backed up to the cloud, not stored locally lest the police try to confiscate it without a warrant as they did with the convenience store security footage in Baton Rouge.

Do you have any Idea how many police officers are shot making routine traffic stops

My son is a cop and has been for 24 years
He made a routine stop a couple of months ago and when they ran him it turned out he had a murder warrant. Luckily for my son he was unarmed st the time
People armed with any warrant hanging over them are dangerous.
I suggest you do a ride along with your local police.
Try facing what they face
People are crazy , especially someone on drugs ,irrational behavior is routine.
As s police officer you never know when you pull over a violator whether your going to get shot.
What your advocating will only fuel distrust and hatred .

When you embolden someone to challenge authority you become part of the problem
Are there bad cops , not as many as there are bad people . Are they scared and overreact of course they are human. Indecision could mean your life
The overwhelming majority of police officers want to survive their shift and go home to their wife and kids while making the community ,regardless of race a little safer.
If every time a cop us shot do you want me to post the video of the criminal
That would only encourage more distrust a racial prejudice.

 

[Padres1969]

Do you have any Idea how many police officers are shot making routine traffic stops

My son is a cop and has been for 24 years
He made a routine stop a couple of months ago and when they ran him it turned out he had a murder warrant. Luckily for my son he was unarmed st the time
People armed with any warrant hanging over them are dangerous.
I suggest you do a ride along with your local police.
Try facing what they face
People are crazy , especially someone on drugs ,irrational behavior is routine.
As s police officer you never know when you pull over a violator whether your going to get shot.
What your advocating will only fuel distrust and hatred .

When you embolden someone to challenge authority you become part of the problem
Are there bad cops , not as many as there are bad people . Are they scared and overreact of course they are human. Indecision could mean your life
The overwhelming majority of police officers want to survive their shift and go home to their wife and kids while making the community ,regardless of race a little safer.
If every time a cop us shot do you want me to post the video of the criminal
That would only encourage more distrust a racial prejudice.

I’ve got several friends who are cops, both local PD in their cities and at the Federal level. I know there are crazies out there, but at the same time crazies being out there doesn’t justify shootings like this one in Falcon heights.

And what I’m advocating won’t fuel any more distrust and hatred. There already is a massive amount of distrust and hatred between the public, particularly the black community, and the police. Rather what I’m advocating will help the situation. Remember, both parties are on “film”, the police and those filming so everyone will be on their best behavior, not just the cops. And furthermore I’d argue that anyone who takes the time to film a confrontation isn’t going to be someone looking to threaten or harm the police, but rather someone who just wants to get through their interaction with the police as quickly and hassle free as possible.

And as for every time a cop shoots do I want the video posted, absolutely. We live in an open and free society supposedly. Government agents, which police are, should in theory be transparent. I advocate all cops wearing cameras to that end, in addition to those interacting with them filming, for their protection as well as for ours. When situations do arise where someone is shot by the police there should be as little ambiguity about the situation as possible, filming helps with that since witness testimony is never enough, and is notoriously unreliable.

 

[vz71]

Physically they’re fine, emotionally they’ll probably never be right again even if the officer is brought to justice.

The video looks bad.
I just wish there was more information available.
I reserve judgement.

 

[Siegehammer]

Minnesota governor Mark Dayton said today that Mr. Castile would not have been killed if he had been white.

Dayton said Castile would be alive if he hadn’t been black, adding that the shooting demonstrated a troubling pattern of racism among some Minnesota law enforcement officers.

“Would this have happened if the driver and the passengers had been white?” he asked. “I don’t think so.”

Dayton said he has spoken with Minnesota’s senators, Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken, and the area’s House representatives and would be demanding a Justice Department investigation.

“I can’t say how shocked I am and deeply, deeply offended that this would happen to somebody in Minnesota,” Dayton said grimly. “No one should be shot in Minnesota for a taillight being out of function. No one should be killed in Minnesota while seated in their car.”

 

[estesbob]

Minnesota governor Mark Dayton said today that Mr. Castile would not have been killed if he had been white.

I doubt if they would have been stopped if they were white.

 

[Padres1969]

I doubt if they would have been stopped if they were white.

Good chance you’re right. And he definitely wouldn’t have been shot. Driving while black definitely exists and is a sad reality for too many people. I worry about a good friend of mine with regard to it all the time because not only is he black, he’s got a troublesome habit of calmly asserting his constitutional rights, including when dealing with the police. He’s one of those guys who can’t stand border patrol checkpoints, DUI secondary screenings when no probably cause exists, etc… It’s bad enough when he does it when his girlfriend, myself or his cousin is in the car (we’re all white). When he does it alone is what worries me.

 

[Allegra]

Do you have any Idea how many police officers are shot making routine traffic stops

My son is a cop and has been for 24 years
He made a routine stop a couple of months ago and when they ran him it turned out he had a murder warrant. Luckily for my son he was unarmed st the time
People armed with any warrant hanging over them are dangerous.
I suggest you do a ride along with your local police.
Try facing what they face
People are crazy , especially someone on drugs ,irrational behavior is routine.
As s police officer you never know when you pull over a violator whether your going to get shot.
What your advocating will only fuel distrust and hatred .

When you embolden someone to challenge authority you become part of the problem
Are there bad cops , not as many as there are bad people . Are they scared and overreact of course they are human. Indecision could mean your life
The overwhelming majority of police officers want to survive their shift and go home to their wife and kids while making the community ,regardless of race a little safer.
If every time a cop us shot do you want me to post the video of the criminal
That would only encourage more distrust a racial prejudice.

There are police officers and departments that are exercising an authority that they do not legitimately hold. While there is no doubt that police officers have to deal with crazies and have a dangerous job, that simply can not justify these incidents of killing innocent people because they weren’t perceived to respond to a command quick enough. It is a legitimate complaint that the officers involved in some of these shootings perceived a threat that was not there. It’s not okay that people are dead because of that.

That being said, the moment you are stopped by an officer is never the smartest time to protest your treatment. At the least, you are going to get extra contrived tickets and if you get a particularly egotistical or anxious cop, you could get arrested or shot, depending on your race.

1I think the app in this ad would help tremendously. Those who feel that they are particularly vulnerable to cops that abuse their power can be educated on what to do and what not to do during the actual encounter and know their rights and what to do if their rights were violated. If they feel empowered in that way, they are much less likely to act out during the encounter and that is safer for both parties.

And there’s nothing wrong with anyone filming an encounter with the police. In my opinion, ANY cop that expresses the slightest resentment or protest about being recorded during traffic stops should be fired immediately.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Are all cops bad? No. A very firm no. But it only takes a few bad ones to tar all officers with that brush. There are enough of them that lots of people have either had a run-in with one or know someone who did. It’s a shame how that trust is lost. Too many people now assume every cop they encounter is bad until proven otherwise. and it is about time that all law enforcement agencies realized that.

So if a law enforcement agency wants to regain the public trust … then every public law enforcement officer reporting to it must wear a body cam that is turned on whenever in the field and the penalty for not having it on during an incident should be severe. So severe that an officer should prefer to have a working camera no matter what happens. In addition, there must be dash cams, front and back, in every police vehicle. All videos are a matter of public record and must be made available to the press and the public. If officers want to regain the public trust, they’re going to have to give up their privacy for it. Further, all awards paid out for police liability should come directly out of the LEA’s budget. Perhaps a big boost in liability insurance premiums could act as a spur on agency management to clean up their ranks. If someone wants to talk about what a tough job cops have, great, but we’re no longer all ears, now we’re all eyes … so show us the videos!

One more thing, the on the job fatality rate for police officers is far below that of a fair number of dangerous jobs. Like commercial fishermen, loggers, roofers and garbage collectors, for example. Heck, officers don’t even have the highest risk of being murdered on the job; that distinction goes to cab drivers and chauffeurs, and restaurant managers come close. We just don’t hear about those other guys.

 

[Vanny]

I usually give the police the benefit of the doubt, but this young man should never have been shot. I’m glad it was recorded on phone.
Does anyone know if the officer had a body camera?
I sure hope there is a thorough investigation and justice is served.

 

[Allegra]

Are all cops bad? No. A very firm no.

Well, I guess that depends on your definition of “bad”. Would all or most cops do something like the cop in that video? Of course not! Do the vast majority allow things like this to happen by ignoring and/or justifying this sort of behavior, bullying officers and civilians who report it, and perpetuating a “good ole boy” society that covers up such incidents at all costs and insists that all officers are heros and are above scrutiny? Yep. I consider that “bad”.

 

[XndrK]

The phone advice was going to be my recommendation to everyone, but particularly anyone in the black community. Always have it easily accessible and begin recording if approached by any police officers for any reason no matter how mundane. As this incident shows, even getting pulled over for something as innocuous as a broken tail light (which seriously who still pulls over people for broken tail lights?!) can get you shot and killed if the cops aren’t given added incentive to behave properly. Knowing they’re on video from the start might just be that incentive. And be sure to have all video immediately backed up to the cloud, not stored locally lest the police try to confiscate it without a warrant as they did with the convenience store security footage in Baton Rouge.

I bet I could make a lot of money selling a dashcam app.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

While this is shocking, I think we need to realize there are really two issues here. I get the feeling some people think only Black people get shot by police officers, or that the number of non-Blacks in such situations are miniscule, and therefore, racism MUST be the sole motivation behind police misconduct. I’m sure it is for many situations, but not all.

After all, Steven Avery wasn’t black, last I checked. (I’m agnostic on his guilt vs. innocence but it does seem the police did engage in questionable practices even if he was guilty.) The cop who shot Akai Gurley didn’t even see him, so he had no idea what his race was, though I suppose some can say “but he obviously assumed people in a housing project were black criminals”.

I also do think that many police officers are simply not trained well enough, in how to resolve situations in a non-violent way. Nassau County (Long Island) NY recently released a complete overhaul of police procedures when it comes to dealing with possibly dangerous suspects, and is meant to train officers to NOT take a “shoot first, ask questions later” attitude, that some apologists for violent actions by police, seem to assume is inherent to police work.

 

[ARSpade]

Hey I’m a gun nut too, I’m raging. I’m genuinely shocked no one else is, all I see so far are more calls defending the cop and trying to find something in the victim’s past that justifies murdering him. And they’re having a hell of a time doing that this time, since by all accounts I’ve seen so far he was a hard working family man whose only crime was having a busted tail light (which I can honestly say I’m shocked they still pull people over for ).

reason.com/blog/2016/07/07/second-amendment-foundation-calls-for-in?platform=hootsuite

“America’s 13 million citizens who are licensed to carry deserve to know exactly what happened and why,” Gottlieb stated. "There are conflicting explanations, and only an independent investigation can hopefully reveal the truth.

“We understand that Gov. Mark Dayton has asked the White House for a federal investigation,” he added, "and we believe that either the Minnesota State Patrol, or an agency of equal stature from another state could also be invited to investigate.

“We are cognizant of the racial overtones arising from Mr. Castile’s death,” Gottlieb noted. “The concerns of our members, and honest gun owners everywhere, go even deeper. Exercising our right to bear arms should not translate to a death sentence over something so trivial as a traffic stop for a broken tail light, and we are going to watch this case with a magnifying glass.”

From the Second Amendment Foundation.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Despicable. The man shot was legally carrying, exercising his second amendment rights, and was shot complying with police orders… And where is the gun nut outrage? There is none, because he’s black.

So I’m a racist because I haven’t had the time to get caught up on the news and come here to post? Get real man.

If the story as portrayed in the video is accurate then this officer is guilty of murder. However, as we have seen many times, one video does not tell the whole story.

I live near Falcon Heights. Haven’t watched the video yet, because I’m still angry over what happened just yesterday in Baton Rouge. I’ve seen lots of Facebook posts, however. I think right now the best we can do is continue to pray for the families that have lost their loved ones.

The Baton Rouge shooting appears to be much, much different from this. Baton Rouge shooting involved PD responding to report of man pulling a gun on bystander. When they arrived they found man matching description of suspect. Altercation ensued resulting in 2 PD on top of suspect trying to gain control. His right shoulder was under car bumper preventing PD from getting control of right arm. PD knew he had gun in right pocket, and couldn’t get control of right arm. If he reached toward, or into, his right pocket then that was a legitimate deadly force situation.

Using a retrospectroscope, Alton Sterling was a convicted felon, pedophile, and likely gang member.

I have seen nothing with the shooting of Philando Castile in Falcon Heights to justify the PDs use of force. I see nothing in his background that would make me think he would pose a threat to police.

Yeah it’s pretty routine procedure. The guy was probably stopped for an innocent reason but once the cop saw that he’s black, his mind probably made the connection that black man=dangerous. He’s a Chinese, I think. Not sure. I don’t see any other explanation for it because come on, they were respectful and a little girl was in the car! Breaks my heart.

It also angers me why he just stood there pointing the gun while the man is bleeding to death. 5 shots too! I hope the woman and her daughter are alright.

The video is damning…but lets reserve our judgements until more info comes out.

 

[Padres1969]

The video is damning…but lets reserve our judgements until more info comes out.

More information came out…

gawker.com/cop-on-apparent-police-scanner-audio-said-philando-cast-1783339741

The cops stopped him not for the tail light, but because they thought he looked like a robbery suspect because of his “wide set nose.” If that doesn’t sound like racial profiling I don’t know what does.

 

[Padres1969]

While this is shocking, I think we need to realize there are really two issues here. I get the feeling some people think only Black people get shot by police officers, or that the number of non-Blacks in such situations are miniscule, and therefore, racism MUST be the sole motivation behind police misconduct. I’m sure it is for many situations, but not all.

After all, Steven Avery wasn’t black, last I checked. (I’m agnostic on his guilt vs. innocence but it does seem the police did engage in questionable practices even if he was guilty.) The cop who shot Akai Gurley didn’t even see him, so he had no idea what his race was, though I suppose some can say “but he obviously assumed people in a housing project were black criminals”.

I also do think that many police officers are simply not trained well enough, in how to resolve situations in a non-violent way. Nassau County (Long Island) NY recently released a complete overhaul of police procedures when it comes to dealing with possibly dangerous suspects, and is meant to train officers to NOT take a “shoot first, ask questions later” attitude, that some apologists for violent actions by police, seem to assume is inherent to police work.

Some officers aren’t trained properly, and some are just racist.

Radio transcripts from just before the Falcon Heights shooting are pretty damning of the police and this particular officer’s thinking. He stopped him not because of the tail light, but because he thought he looked like a robbery suspect because he had a “wide set nose”.

gawker.com/cop-on-apparent-police-scanner-audio-said-philando-cast-1783339741

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I hope they are not going to keep this yoyo on the police force anymore. What he did was cold blooded murder and should be prosecuted, but of course he won’t be.

 

[10gr8kids]

Do you have any Idea how many police officers are shot making routine traffic stops

My son is a cop and has been for 24 years
He made a routine stop a couple of months ago and when they ran him it turned out he had a murder warrant. Luckily for my son he was unarmed st the time
People armed with any warrant hanging over them are dangerous.
I suggest you do a ride along with your local police.
Try facing what they face
People are crazy , especially someone on drugs ,irrational behavior is routine.
As s police officer you never know when you pull over a violator whether your going to get shot.
What your advocating will only fuel distrust and hatred .

When you embolden someone to challenge authority you become part of the problem
Are there bad cops , not as many as there are bad people . Are they scared and overreact of course they are human. Indecision could mean your life
The overwhelming majority of police officers want to survive their shift and go home to their wife and kids while making the community ,regardless of race a little safer.
If every time a cop us shot do you want me to post the video of the criminal
That would only encourage more distrust a racial prejudice.

I sure would not want anyone I love being a police officer. It is amazing what the last seven years have brought. I was not around in the 60’s and barely remember the 70’s, but the racial tension we’ve had the last several years is the worst I have ever known. This is one reason I really hoped Ben Carson would have been our next president. I believe his calm demeanor and common sense would have been good for easing the racial tensions that seems to have gotten worse recently. As of now I don’t think we have much hope of anything getting better for at least another four years.

 

[vz71]

It would seem then that the officer did not call for ems.
Just repeating code 3 over and over does not give the information needed to respond properly.

As for the video. . .
It does not provide key information.
It only provides details of what happened after the event.

It may be heart-wrenching to watch, but ultimately it does not help.

 

[Wampa]

I live in Minneapolis and grew up a few miles from this intersection.

My apologies if my point has been mentioned already (several posters in this thread are on my Ignore list). I don’t know why this information is not being reported nationally (at least that I have seen), but local stations here are reporting that they pulled him over because they thought he looked like a suspect in a recent, nearby robbery being investigated by the St. Anthony police. You can hear the police scanner audio at: kare11.com/news/police-scanner-audio-1/267042738.

I’m not saying that justifies the shooting at all, but my point is that to immediately conclude racism is the cause before the facts are in, as some CAF posters have and as my governor has, just inflames the situation.

It seems they approached the car thinking they were dealing with a robbery suspect, learned he had a gun, and reacted when he reached for his wallet. That makes logical sense, as heartbreaking as the result is. Isn’t that more logical than concluding that the officer, a minority himself (Latino), was doing a routine traffic stop for an insignificant reason and escalated to this result due to racism?

Our country is so divided and it seems that too many are ready to fit news events into their ready-made narrative. I don’t see how this goes anywhere but spiraling downward. As I saw a commentator on CNN say, we seem to be in a vicious cycle where the two sides (pro-blue and pro-BLM) can no longer empathize with each others’ legitimate fears. Sadly, I see more events like Dallas and Tennessee coming. I fear for our country.