Fallen away Catholics are still Catholic Whether they know it or not?

[Gabriel_of_12]

To those Catholics who are no longer practicing the Catholic faith and claim no longer to be Catholic. Did you know your baptism still remains thus you still are Catholic. Could you comment about the sacraments you may have taken?

What caused you to stop practicing your Catholic faith?

I hope we might be able to clear up your misgivings of the Catholic faith.

Non Catholics are welcome to dialogue What they hate about the Catholic church.

I pray Catholics will respond with Love and understanding , to practice the virtues of our faith, given to us by the Holy Spirit.

 

[MrS]

Reminds me of what Patrick Madrid said about everyone in heaven is a Catholic. And everyone in hell will be Catholic too.

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism… that is God’s plan regardless of what we think we are… or used to be.

.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Reminds me of what Patrick Madrid said about everyone in heaven is a Catholic. And everyone in hell will be Catholic too.

One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism… that is God’s plan regardless of what we think we are… or used to be.

That says alot, cant dispute One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, Yet before heaven or hell, how does one who is Catholic not believe he/she is no longer Catholic. When the indeluable mark is on them.

 

[fbl9]

in the op it was asked if the fallen away knew they were still catholic. a very surprising number will say yes we are still cathoics.which they still are. whether one follows the true church or not they are still part of the flock,those who do not follow the true church’s teachings are disobidient to the church, the body of Christ.

 

[MrS]

[That says alot, cant dispute One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, Yet before heaven or hell, how does one who is Catholic not believe he/she is no longer Catholic. When the indeluable mark is on them.

Jeff Cavins also can be quoted here… how directly he explains that there is only ONE reason why a person leaves the Catholic Church.

They do not know what they are leaving.

Divorce, contraception, scandals, Mary, authority… some or all are given as reasons for rejecting the Church founded by the Lord Himself.

Yet the individual really cannot explain what the Church really teaches on these and the Doctrines of the Faith.

Pride cometh before the exit.

.
[/quote]

 

[JRKH]

To those Catholics who are no longer practicing the Catholic faith and claim no longer to be Catholic. Did you know your baptism still remains thus you still are Catholic. Could you comment about the sacraments you may have taken?

What caused you to stop practicing your Catholic faith?

I hope we might be able to clear up your misgivings of the Catholic faith.

Non Catholics are welcome to dialogue What they hate about the Catholic church.

I pray Catholics will respond with Love and understanding , to practice the virtues of our faith, given to us by the Holy Spirit.

Well I am a revert so technically I don’t qualify, but I can share a couple of things.
Born and raised in a “died in the wool” catholic family (both sides). 8 years catholic school (1962-1969) during the implimentation of Vatican II. Two years CCD during high school. Bought into most of the changes, at the time, but didn’t understand the rather rabid desire to throw out tradition.
After getting married at 18, I drifted away from the church and sacrements though for many years I would describe myself as a non-practicing catholic.
I began reading a number of texts (far eastern mysticism, bible, new age, etc.) and found much there enlightening. Never seriously looked at other faiths, nor Protestantism because none of them was a “perfect fit” or irrisistable draw to me.
My studies did lead me to an elevated and more spiritual understanding of God, and salvation than I got during my formative years.
By this time I refered to myself as a non-denominational Christian. I accepted God, the Trinity, the value of the Catholic Church, and the leadership of the HS, but I also accepted the value of other paths. My criteria for accepting something as having value was if it held to “The Two Great Commandments.”
In the meantime, I had divorced and remarried to a wonderful woman. After about 8 years she was diagnosed with alzheimers. (about 6 years ago).

I still hadn’t really thought much about returning, but then I got a letter from my godfather. (He had never written me before) He urged me, for my wifes sake to consider reconciling with the church. After much prayer God granted me a sign that we should. (my wife was also a fallen away catholic) Last June my annulment was granted and we re-entered the Church.

Now I must say that I still have issues with some aspects of the church, but I am glad to be home. We attend mass during the week when we can and attend the TLM on Sunday. There is no doubt that God called us home and that my DW is now safely in his hands.

I’d be happy to answer any questions about my time away.

James

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Well I am a revert so technically I don’t qualify, but I can share a couple of things.
Born and raised in a “died in the wool” catholic family (both sides). 8 years catholic school (1962-1969) during the implimentation of Vatican II. Two years CCD during high school. Bought into most of the changes, at the time, but didn’t understand the rather rabid desire to throw out tradition.
After getting married at 18, I drifted away from the church and sacrements though for many years I would describe myself as a non-practicing catholic.
I began reading a number of texts (far eastern mysticism, bible, new age, etc.) and found much there enlightening. Never seriously looked at other faiths, nor Protestantism because none of them was a “perfect fit” or irrisistable draw to me.
My studies did lead me to an elevated and more spiritual understanding of God, and salvation than I got during my formative years.
By this time I refered to myself as a non-denominational Christian. I accepted God, the Trinity, the value of the Catholic Church, and the leadership of the HS, but I also accepted the value of other paths. My criteria for accepting something as having value was if it held to “The Two Great Commandments.”
In the meantime, I had divorced and remarried to a wonderful woman. After about 8 years she was diagnosed with alzheimers. (about 6 years ago).

I still hadn’t really thought much about returning, but then I got a letter from my godfather. (He had never written me before) He urged me, for my wifes sake to consider reconciling with the church. After much prayer God granted me a sign that we should. (my wife was also a fallen away catholic) Last June my annulment was granted and we re-entered the Church.

Now I must say that I still have issues with some aspects of the church, but I am glad to be home. We attend mass during the week when we can and attend the TLM on Sunday. There is no doubt that God called us home and that my DW is now safely in his hands.

I’d be happy to answer any questions about my time away.

James

Welcome back home James you mentioned above you still have issues about the Church, care to define what you mean by what issues?

Some fallen away Catholics believe there is no point of return for them because they have been married in the Catholic Church, divorced, remarried multiple times outside of the Church, but your case proves their is hope for those who have a misconception that there is no point of return for them, because of many personal issues. But there is always hope back home for everyone, no matter how grave your circumstance maybe.

keep up the faith:thumbsup:

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

in the op it was asked if the fallen away knew they were still catholic. a very surprising number will say yes we are still cathoics.which they still are. whether one follows the true church or not they are still part of the flock,those who do not follow the true church’s teachings are disobidient to the church, the body of Christ.

Thanks for your answer, that fallen away Catholics still believe they are still Catholic.

Why do you think a fallen away Catholic falls away from the Church’s teachings, or become disobedient to what aspect of the Catholic Church?

 

[Mirdath]

To those Catholics who are no longer practicing the Catholic faith and claim no longer to be Catholic. Did you know your baptism still remains thus you still are Catholic. Could you comment about the sacraments you may have taken?

I was baptized (technically in the Episcopal church, but who’s counting?), had confession, received the eucharist, and was confirmed before I left.

I do realize the Church still considers me a member; however, this feeling is not mutual. And since I do not consider the Church an authority in matters of faith, morals, or membership, I see no need to formally defect by notifying the bishop in writing – which is what you’re supposed to do. I am not Catholic, no matter the unrequited feelings of Rome for me.

What caused you to stop practicing your Catholic faith?

Lack of belief. I disagree quite strongly with the teachings of the Church on many matters, yes, but those are pretty small potatoes next to that.

I hope we might be able to clear up your misgivings of the Catholic faith.

Misgivings? I know quite well what I left; I am simply unable to bring myself to believe, and thus to submit again to its authority.

Non Catholics are welcome to dialogue What they hate about the Catholic church.

I don’t hate the Church. I strongly and vehemently disagree with it on many things, but I also have a great respect for it as an institution, as a cultural artifact, and, generally, as a collection of usually-pretty-decent people.

I’m pretty laid-back about the whole thing: believe what you want, I’m not going to stop you. That doesn’t mean I agree with you, that doesn’t mean I won’t work toward my own ends which may conflict entirely with yours, that doesn’t mean I’ll just roll over when you say I’m with you because of something my parents had done to me two weeks after I was born. I am not Catholic, or even Christian at all; and frankly, the opinion of Christians as to whether an apostate and agnostic is still just a lost little lamb bumping its head against the inside of the fence is not something I take into consideration.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I was baptized (technically in the Episcopal church, but who’s counting?), had confession, received the eucharist, and was confirmed before I left.

I do realize the Church still considers me a member; however, this feeling is not mutual. And since I do not consider the Church an authority in matters of faith, morals, or membership, I see no need to formally defect by notifying the bishop in writing – which is what you’re supposed to do. I am not Catholic, no matter the unrequited feelings of Rome for me.

Lack of belief. I disagree quite strongly with the teachings of the Church on many matters, yes, but those are pretty small potatoes next to that.

Misgivings? I know quite well what I left; I am simply unable to bring myself to believe, and thus to submit again to its authority.

I don’t hate the Church. I strongly and vehemently disagree with it on many things, but I also have a great respect for it as an institution, as a cultural artifact, and, generally, as a collection of usually-pretty-decent people.

I’m pretty laid-back about the whole thing: believe what you want, I’m not going to stop you. That doesn’t mean I agree with you, that doesn’t mean I won’t work toward my own ends which may conflict entirely with yours, that doesn’t mean I’ll just roll over when you say I’m with you because of something my parents had done to me two weeks after I was born. I am not Catholic, or even Christian at all; and frankly, the opinion of Christians as to whether an apostate and agnostic is still just a lost little lamb bumping its head against the inside of the fence is not something I take into consideration.

**Hi Mirdath, thanks for your truthful answers, I believe them to be truly authentic.

What I am not so clear about in your explanation, is have you left to be on your own , or did you leave because you just dont believe what the Catholic Church teaches? or do you feel the church did something wrong to you?**

 

[JRKH]

Welcome back home James you mentioned above you still have issues about the Church, care to define what you mean by what issues?

Some fallen away Catholics believe there is no point of return for them because they have been married in the Catholic Church, divorced, remarried multiple times outside of the Church, but your case proves their is hope for those who have a misconception that there is no point of return for them, because of many personal issues. But there is always hope back home for everyone, no matter how grave your circumstance maybe.

keep up the faith:thumbsup:

I believe that in the case of “fallen away” catholics, anyone can come home if they really want to. The Church will bend over backwards to help. (at least that has been my experience.)

As to specific “issues”, that is a rather a sticky wicket. It would be difficult to put into words. some of the things.

In general, I like the church because of its ancient origions.
Of course if I were raised orthodox I would probably feel the same.
I believe the church contains much that is good and true. Not the least of which would be the huge numbers of ancient writings etc stored at the Vatican.
I believe the Church heirarchy to be staffed by generally good, decent, God fearing people who are honestly trying to do God’s work as they understand it.

However

I have issues with the hair splitting and philosophical “hat tricks” that go on.
For example, the abuse scandal. My issue with this is not the particulars of the abuses, though that is bad enough. It is with the institutional handling of it. I’m sorry, but a priest abusing a child may be a “sinful” member, but when the heirarchy fails to take appropriate, measures to protect the children, that becomes institutional and not individual period.
Another example is the degree of Marian veneration. I apologize to anyone who will be offended, but for many this boarders on Idolotry. I don’t think it is intentional, but it certainly is promoted by the Church. And some of the Marionists on this board can be most unchristian in their defense of Our Blessed Mother
The disessention brought about by the TLM, and the “opposing camps” that have been created. If we are to be “Catholic” then we should be working together in unity, not squabbling about the new vs the old.

Much of the differences are: You say To-ma-to and I day to-maw-to type things.
I believe in God. He is the object of our Love, and our praise. Unity with Him is our Goal.
I believe that Jesus is our Lord and Savior, but even more He is our elder brother.
We have built up unnecessary walls seperating ourselves from Jesus, making Him more God than man, when that was not the intent of His mission and ministry. Jesus taught us to pray to the father, and to call God Father.
Jesus told us that we could do everything He did, and even greater things if we have faith. (sorry I’m not a chapter and verse man)
Yet does the Holy Father raise the dead? Does anyone? How many healings are affected daily by the magesterium? Not that I am trying to denegrate the Holy Father, I love him dearly as I loved his predecessor.
But If the Church possesses the “wholeness of the Holy Spirit, and God’s Truth”, and if Jesus promised his diciples will do things as great as He did, then where are all the miraculous healings? And why must the Church investigate visions for years to “determine” if they are legitimate?

Sorry to ramble so. But you see, these are the kinds of issues where I differ from the, “Party Line” shall we say.

Peace
James

 

[MrS]

I do realize the Church still considers me a member; however, this feeling is not mutual. And since I do not consider the Church an authority in matters of faith, morals, or membership, I see no need to formally defect by notifying the bishop in writing – which is what you’re supposed to do. I am not Catholic, no matter the unrequited feelings of Rome for me.

Lack of belief. I disagree quite strongly with the teachings of the Church on many matters, yes, but those are pretty small potatoes next to that.

I am not Catholic, or even Christian at all; and frankly, the opinion of Christians as to whether an apostate and agnostic is still just a lost little lamb bumping its head against the inside of the fence is not something I take into consideration.

For someone who is “set in his ways”, you apparently deem it necessary to come here often and post often. IMHO I think you really do want someone to help …

Perhaps you would share some of those “beliefs” you find unacceptable to you.

 

[Mirdath]

What I am not so clear about in your explanation, is have you left to be on your own , or did you leave because you just dont believe what the Catholic Church teaches? or do you feel the church did something wrong to you?

Yes, yes, and no, respectively.

I am on my own because there’s not much point in establishing a Church of We Can’t Know Whether God Exists – although I’ve considered for a while joining the Society of Friends, since they take unbelievers in. The nearest meeting seems to be a little hard to get ahold of, though (and I’ve been both frantically busy and lazy and should probably try again).

The Church never did wrong by me, and it’s neither the fault of the Church nor of any Catholic in particular that I left. I think some people just don’t possess the faculty of faith.

MrS:

For someone who is “set in his ways”, you apparently deem it necessary to come here often and post often. IMHO I think you really do want someone to help …

I really should be keeping count of how often I hear this This is an open forum, not just for Catholics and those who want to be Catholics. There’s good conversation, great debate, fun people, and dare I say it, frequent unintentional humor.

Also, I want to see an agnostic in the top 50 postcounts. Just… because.

Perhaps you would share some of those “beliefs” you find unacceptable to you.

I’d rather not derail the thread. There’s a long-and-getting-longer thread all about that here.

 

[Hesychios]

Does the Roman catholic church have a process of deleting non-practicing Catholics and exerts from the rolls?

Or is this not possible, since theoretically they are still Catholics?

 

[fbl9]

Why do you think a fallen away Catholic falls away from the Church’s teachings, or become disobedient to what aspect of the Catholic Church?..i can only speak from my own experience on this question.the answer is sin…the sacrement of reconcillation was the frist to go on my list…ie what good is saying a few prayers going to do.then incomplete confessions,due to my unwillingness to humble myself,in retrospect,then i was trapped in my vices… i continued on living this way for a while,till i was totally full of pride.in my opion that is the reason many stay away from the church is because they can’t concieve themselves as being wrong. pride:ie i know the word of God and nobody can tell me i have it wrong, because i beleive i am right so i am right.

 

[AgnosTheist]

And everyone in hell will be Catholic too.

Adolf Hitler can still go to heaven after becoming catholic in hell!

 

[bengal_fan]

if pushed, all Christians would admit to being “catholic”. just not in the way the roman catholic church would teach it. we don’t believe in a physical building, structure, or hierarchy that represents the catholic church. all Christians make up the catholic church. the roman catholic church is just one of those manifestations.

 

[bengal_fan]

Adolf Hitler can still go to heaven after becoming catholic in hell!

he was actually baptized roman catholic so apparently he has always been roman catholic. whether he is in heaven or hell is up to God.

 

[JRKH]

Does the Roman catholic church have a process of deleting non-practicing Catholics and exerts from the rolls?

Or is this not possible, since theoretically they are still Catholics?

My understanding is that there is a process by which a baptized catholic can formally leave the church. If I’m not mistaken it involves writing a letter to the Bishop. Unless and until one does this, one is still considered to be catholic by the church.

When I left I did not do this. (I didn’t know such a thing existed.) But, you see, no one asked be if I wanted to be catholic when I was baptized at 2 weeks old, so why should I ask to leave?

Structurally I suppose that the system makes sense, but spiritually it seems just silly.

Peace
James

 

[Hesychios]

My understanding is that there is a process by which a baptized catholic can formally leave the church. If I’m not mistaken it involves writing a letter to the Bishop. Unless and until one does this, one is still considered to be catholic by the church.

When I left I did not do this. (I didn’t know such a thing existed.)

When I left, I made no formal resignation letter either.

Most people would not, and the ‘process’ is not taught AFAIK.

By a freak set of coincidences I actually now live very close to the parish where I made my first communion and confirmation, although I had moved almost twenty five years ago. Things have not changed much there over the years, but the faces are all different now, many having gone to God in the many intervening years. New people have moved in, there is a lot more room in the pews and less Masses and priests.

I wonder if they actuually have any idea how many of their former parishioners are still in the area but have become Christians of another sort, or are actually unchurched.

Michael