Fallen away Catholics are still Catholic Whether they know it or not?

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;3326236:

The Anglican church is catholic, you are correct there, but your statement of our orders and Eucharist not being valid is strictly the opinion of the Roman church and many but not all of its faithful. We removed ourselves from the authority of the pope; so? And Anglicans are in the line of Apostolic Succession. A serious argument could be made about Roman Catholics not being in that line any longer but I won’t go there because it is neither necessary or charitable. Please remember too that when you are referring to Anglicans as “they”, you are referring to me just the same.

All rido oh chap, I will reference you as they, Anglicans.

But you still did not answer my question? What caused you to leave the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[SIA]

SIA;3332124:

All rido oh chap, I will reference you as they, Anglicans.

But you still did not answer my question? What caused you to leave the Roman Catholic Church?

I left because of the lack of proof of the truth therein of many Catholic doctrines and dogma including Purgatory, the Assumption, perpetual virginity of Mary and so on. I also left because of the apparent treck of the church heading off course in my belief. The child sex abuse ordeal etc. I do not believe that the Catholic church is on course with what God would have in store for us. I believe that I was spiritually led out of the Catholic church as well after many years of being what I would call, dead in the spirit.

 

[MrS]

Gabriel of 12;3332244:

I left because of the lack of proof of the truth therein of many Catholic doctrines and dogma including Purgatory, the Assumption, perpetual virginity of Mary and so on. I also left because of the apparent treck of the church heading off course in my belief. The child sex abuse ordeal etc. I do not believe that the Catholic church is on course with what God would have in store for us. I believe that I was spiritually led out of the Catholic church as well after many years of being what I would call, dead in the spirit

.

I hope that you pursue an honest study of Scripture. Compare commentaries from both Catholic and non-Catholic sources. And by all means read from the Early Fathers, the ones who were so close to the “original” Church.

If you don’t, you may be worse than dead in the spirit… like maybe dead outside the spirit.

Your walk with God continues, and we will pray for you on this journey.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;3332244:

I left because of the lack of proof of the truth therein of many Catholic doctrines and dogma including Purgatory, the Assumption, perpetual virginity of Mary and so on. I also left because of the apparent treck of the church heading off course in my belief. The child sex abuse ordeal etc. I do not believe that the Catholic church is on course with what God would have in store for us. I believe that I was spiritually led out of the Catholic church as well after many years of being what I would call, dead in the spirit.

What you stated above, your not alone, their have been many a Catholic and Non catholics who experienced what you revealed. The most important of all these is “dead in the spirit”

I thought Anglicans believed in the 4 doctrines of Mary?

I believe if you get true understanding of what takes place in the Mass, you wont find it dead but alive!! Have you gotten any instruction on the Mass in the Book of Revealtions?

 

[SIA]

SIA;3336131:

Gabriel of 12;3332244:

I left because of the lack of proof of the truth therein of many Catholic doctrines and dogma including Purgatory, the Assumption, perpetual virginity of Mary and so on. I also left because of the apparent treck of the church heading off course in my belief. The child sex abuse ordeal etc. I do not believe that the Catholic church is on course with what God would have in store for us. I believe that I was spiritually led out of the Catholic church as well after many years of being what I would call, dead in the spirit.

What you stated above, your not alone, their have been many a Catholic and Non catholics who experienced what you revealed. The most important of all these is “dead in the spirit”

I thought Anglicans believed in the 4 doctrines of Mary?

I believe if you get true understanding of what takes place in the Mass, you wont find it dead but alive!! Have you gotten any instruction on the Mass in the Book of Revealtions?

I absolutely have gotten much knowledge of each part of the sacrifice of the mass over the years. I think that the real problem is that much of what was taught to me as a child all the way up through the years is just not reality to me. I don’t believe that we can sacrifice back to God the father what Jesus sacrificed once for all. Even if we transcended time to do this, I don’t think that it is neither necessary or possible. I also do not believe in many of the Catholic doctrines such as transubstantiation, the assumption, the immaculate conception, purgatory etc. I am much more reformation minded and just finally did something about it.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;3342737:

SIA;3336131:

I absolutely have gotten much knowledge of each part of the sacrifice of the mass over the years. I think that the real problem is that much of what was taught to me as a child all the way up through the years is just not reality to me. I don’t believe that we can sacrifice back to God the father what Jesus sacrificed once for all. Even if we transcended time to do this, I don’t think that it is neither necessary or possible. I also do not believe in many of the Catholic doctrines such as transubstantiation, the assumption, the immaculate conception, purgatory etc. I am much more reformation minded and just finally did something about it.

Was I mistaken, or are you not Anglican? What are there beliefs on the topics you listed above?
Have you ever experienced the holy spirit? if so in what way?

 

[SIA]

SIA;3344329:

Gabriel of 12;3342737:

Words cannot remotely describe the experience of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Greg27]

My feelings about the Church are somewhat ambivalent. I strongly disagree with most of its teachings on sexual morality and also some other teachings on how we should make ethical decisions and obey its authority. I still attend Mass though, because I enjoy the liturgy and the warmth in the church, especially around Easter and Christmas. I also enjoy talking to other Catholics and also priests I know from time to time. The Church’s practices and traditions I think are a good source of wisdom and reflection which I can use to guide my conscience and help guide me in my sense of vocation. The spirituality of the church though in the end, is probably what keeps me going.

 

[JRKH]

My feelings about the Church are somewhat ambivalent. I strongly disagree with most of its teachings on sexual morality and also some other teachings on how we should make ethical decisions and obey its authority. I still attend Mass though, because I enjoy the liturgy and the warmth in the church, especially around Easter and Christmas. I also enjoy talking to other Catholics and also priests I know from time to time. The Church’s practices and traditions I think are a good source of wisdom and reflection which I can use to guide my conscience and help guide me in my sense of vocation. The spirituality of the church though in the end, is probably what keeps me going.

May God continue to inspire you through the beauty and truth of His Church.

When we have trouble understanding and agreeing with certain church doctrine it is often because we have either just a partial or incorrect understanding of the doctrine and the reasons behind it.
I hope you won’t just ignore the teachings you don’t agree with but rather study prayerfully to better understand the Church teaching.
Do attend the sacraments and possibly discuss some of these things with a priest or councilor you trust.

I do speak from experience on this. I haven’t achieved perfect compliance but I am trying.

Peace
James

 

[thirdn6]

Gabriel of 12;3326236:

The Anglican church is catholic, you are correct there, but your statement of our orders and Eucharist not being valid is strictly the opinion of the Roman church and many but not all of its faithful. We removed ourselves from the authority of the pope; so? And Anglicans are in the line of Apostolic Succession. A serious argument could be made about Roman Catholics not being in that line any longer but I won’t go there because it is neither necessary or charitable. Please remember too that when you are referring to Anglicans as “they”, you are referring to me just the same.

Is it so? What I have read is that Anglican church is NEVER a branch of the Catholic Church although it possesses some Catholic traditions.

Cardinal Reginald Pole was the LAST Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury. Matthew Parker was the FIRST protestant Archbishop of Canterbury.

The Anglican church is the Church OF England. Is a province of the universal Anglican Communion. And never was the same as the Church IN England.

The Apostolicae Curae was final. It was for all Catholics to believe and affirm. It was given to us to remove all doubts concerning Anglican orders. The guidance of the Holy Spirit to all truth was and always with the Church. An ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

So many people were and are being deceived by the notion that Anglicanism is “LIKE” Catholism just because it has some qualities/traditions (2 out of 7 sacraments) which are similar to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

If it was… you can not mix an adulterated wine to a pure wine. It may become poison!

Sorry… Peace.

---

Be angry, and sin not… Give not place to the devil.
Ephesians 4:26-27 +

 

[HashemEchad]

I have a question which goes back about 500 years (!)

My mother’s family originated in Spain; they were Spanish Jews who had been forced upon pain of death to convert to Catholicism. They became marranos, which means they acted like Catholics externally, to save their lives, but continued to practice Judaism in secret, so the Inquisition would not kill them in the auto da fe’s.

Were their baptisms valid under Canon law, even though they were forced to become Catholic?

(My mother’s family remained outwardly Catholic, and retained Jewish customs, but over the centuries they lost understanding of why they practiced the (Jewish) customs.

In 1944 my mother decided to convert to Judaism, which she did, before she met my father. I did not learn of her full marrano ancestry until the 1980s when a cousin and I started doing family genealogy!)

However, I have tried to find the answer to my question: was the forced baptisms of my ancestors valid in the eyes of the Catholic church? Do baptisms need to be 100% voluntary to be valid, or no?

 

[JRKH]

I have a question which goes back about 500 years (!)

My mother’s family originated in Spain; they were Spanish Jews who had been forced upon pain of death to convert to Catholicism. They became marranos, which means they acted like Catholics externally, to save their lives, but continued to practice Judaism in secret, so the Inquisition would not kill them in the auto da fe’s.

Were their baptisms valid under Canon law, even though they were forced to become Catholic?

(My mother’s family remained outwardly Catholic, and retained Jewish customs, but over the centuries they lost understanding of why they practiced the (Jewish) customs.

In 1944 my mother decided to convert to Judaism, which she did, before she met my father. I did not learn of her full marrano ancestry until the 1980s when a cousin and I started doing family genealogy!)

However, I have tried to find the answer to my question: was the forced baptisms of my ancestors valid in the eyes of the Catholic church? Do baptisms need to be 100% voluntary to be valid, or no?

IMHO
Such baptisms would not be valid because they were coerced.

Having said that, it appears that succeeding generations became more Catholic than Jewish in their thinking as well as actions so those baptisms would be valid. Therefore your mother’s baptism would be a valid one.

Peace
James

 

[HashemEchad]

IMHO
Such baptisms would not be valid because they were coerced.

Having said that, it appears that succeeding generations became more Catholic than Jewish in their thinking as well as actions so those baptisms would be valid. Therefore your mother’s baptism would be a valid one.

Peace
James

Well, I think the “Catholicism” in succeeding generations of my family was just as corrupted as the “Judaism”…not sure why, but it seems from what I’ve been able to learn, many marrano/converso descendants ended up like that.

For instance, my mother’s mother was afraid of crucifixes (she would tell me, “Whenever you see one, it means someone is going to die, they are bad luck”). She also refused to eat pork, claiming it was “unclean”.

She kept some Jewish customs, but they were as distorted as the Catholic customs were. I learned this is common with marranos/conversos…they blend both religions over the course of so many hundreds of years, that both religions become somewhat distorted from the original.

One custom I always found amusing, esp. as an adult when I learned more about it: my grandmother would always keep the Christmas Eve Spanish/Italian “Seven Fishes” dinner, but would only use kosher fish!