Fallen Away Catholics

[trayletha]

Personally it has been the priests’ who’ve had the biggest impact on my connection with the church - I don’t have a problem with being told that something I have done or am doing or believe is against church teachings (that lack of catechism) and so should stop, repent and confess. It is the difference of being told “such and such” is a sin, period with the tone of condescension, and no guidance or explanation; versus a conversation where the church’s position is explained to me - this is why - with understanding and compassion. I have learned more about the “rules” of Catholicism from this site in all my lurking than in all my years in catechism and in the pews.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I wanted to get everyone’s opinion on why most adult Catholics fall away from the Church. Do you think it poor Catholic education and they do not really know what the Church believes? Could it be that they have an issue with certain moral issues such as abortion? I appreciate evryones opinion.

God Bless,

One recent cause of it has been revulsion at the Church’s behaviour regarding various recent scandals: people don’t want anything to do with the Church. And who can blame them ? ​

 

[Kqrtam05]

One recent cause of it has been revulsion at the Church’s behaviour regarding various recent scandals: people don’t want anything to do with the Church. And who can blame them ? ​

A good reply to that would be… “Just because there’s a few corrupt doctors, are you going to abandon all medicine?”

That’s from Father Corapi, by the way…

 

[havana1]

havana1, can you please elaborate on this? I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say singles are ignored, and I would be interested to hear your views on how they are ignored. I don’t think I ever remember feeling ignored back when I was single, so maybe I’m not looking at the same things you are.

With the “oh, that’s a vocation…” thing, what was this said in response to? An expression of frustration? A desire for more activities, or? I am sorry you felt mistreated.

I’d also be interested in hearing any possible solutions you might have that could help keep disenchanted singles in the church.

Yes, gladly…Sunday after Sunday, week after week, the priest ALWAYS talks about couples and marriage-related stuff during the homily… this past week, there was a new diocesan policy announced about marriage, so of course, more red-carpet VIP treatment for the couples and families. Meanwhile, I never hear any acknowledgment of the singles.

I have tried for months to get an appointment scheduled with the pastor, but there are limited office hours M-F when I’m at work and can never get a day off when the pastor is there.

One simple thing the Church could do to keep “disenchanted singles” here is to simply acknowledge us… we don’t want to be “entertained,” we don’t want the priest to stand on his head and do cartwheels… we simply want to the priest or deacon to say, “The Eucharist is for you, too,” and “This homily is for you, too.” Unfortunately, monkeys will fly out of my butt before that ever happens.

There aren’t even any “singles-related” topics on Catholic answers…! One of the most prominent voices for Catholics, and we’re ignored there, too!

You take some members of the Church for granted, and they’ll walk away. It’s not rocket science.

 

[Drawmack]

A good reply to that would be… “Just because there’s a few corrupt doctors, are you going to abandon all medicine?”

That’s from Father Corapi, by the way…

Nope, however if you can show me that the AMA has transferred doctors from one city to another in order to cover up their malpractice instead of pulling their license to practice medicine then I would be forced to not accept any doctor’s credentials.

 

[Doxiemom]

I can only speak for myself. i, too, will not argue the rights or wrongs about my personal faith because it does neither myself or anyone any good and I feel it is actually damageing to the peacefullness i feel with my lord.

I have one foot in the catholic church and the other in the evangelical church.

I will never leave behind Mass and the Eucuchrist. I accept apostolic sucession, especially concerning the Eucuchrist. i accept the catholic teaching on abortion( as sin) but cannot accept it’s refusal to allow forms of birth control (those that are preventative, not in anyway abortive); especialy after a couple has been fruitful and multiplied.

I do not agree with “mortal” vs “venial” sin, as to mortal sending you to hell. I agree with Scripture that there is only one unforgivalble sin and that is blasphemy against the holy Spirit

What i find deeply effecting me about the evangelical church is its understanding and teachings about the prophetic. And their faithfullness and concentration on Holy Scripture.

It is like the catholic church has the mystical and the evangelical church has the preaching. The blend is perfect.

But, then again, I have an odd background. My mom was baptist, converted to catholicism and will never go back. My paternal grandfather, in the early 1900’s was a catholic deacon in italy and walked away from the church because of the absolute sordid behavior of most of the priests. I was also highly influenced by a wonderful neighbor who had been a priest but left the church. His love for God was as he lived his life and he showed me how he could find his God in his garden.

I nearly walked away but for my husband who wanted to return to attending mass.

I make neither the catholic or the evangelic happy with how I worship or the content of what i see as proper doctrine. Escpecially in these end of times.

 

[Answersplease]

Nope, however if you can show me that the AMA has transferred doctors from one city to another in order to cover up their malpractice instead of pulling their license to practice medicine then I would be forced to not accept any doctor’s credentials.

If Jesus let Judas live, what is it to you.

There have been bad priests, bad bishops and at least one bad Pope, so what.
Catholics accept the authority of Jesus The Christ handed down to the Pope,
as long as the Pope did’nt say infallibly that “God made me sin”, the Pope’s sin does’nt invalidate the institution that Catholics believe was built by Jesus The Christ Himself.

If you’re looking for a church that has perfect human leaders, you won’t find one.

If the leadership is corrupt that does’nt mean the entire organization is corrupt.

I’m guessing that Judas was’nt the only sinner among the Apostles, are you going to say you can no longer accept the credential’s of any of the Apostles?

What happened to the molestation victims was wrong, and moving priests around was wrong if indeed that happened, I have’nt looked into it for the same reasoning in the above paragraph, namely personal corruption does’nt surprise me.

If you break society’s laws then let society judge you, I don’t advocate letting anyone go free without being tried and if need be judged by society’s judicial system.

 

[Drawmack]

If Jesus let Judas live, what is it to you.

There have been bad priests, bad bishops and at least one bad Pope, so what.
Catholics accept the authority of Jesus The Christ handed down to the Pope,
as long as the Pope did’nt say infallibly that “God made me sin”, the Pope’s sin does’nt invalidate the institution that Catholics believe was built by Jesus The Christ Himself.

If you’re looking for a church that has perfect human leaders, you won’t find one.

If the leadership is corrupt that does’nt mean the entire organization is corrupt.

I’m guessing that Judas was’nt the only sinner among the Apostles, are you going to say you can no longer accept the credential’s of any of the Apostles?

What happened to the molestation victims was wrong, and moving priests around was wrong if indeed that happened, I have’nt looked into it for the same reasoning in the above paragraph, namely personal corruption does’nt surprise me.

If you break society’s laws then let society judge you, I don’t advocate letting anyone go free without being tried and if need be judged by society’s judicial system.

I would like to clarify that I wasn’t defending the position. I was simply pointing out that the argument offered didn’t address the actual issue.

 

[djeter]

Here’s something anevilAtheist will appreciate (the superiority of the atheist over the relativistic churchgoer) :

I made a post about moral relativism the other day – how it links with arguments on abortion, end-of-life-issues, gay marriage etc-- and then followed it up with a book review/recommendation of Peter Kreeft’s “A Refutation of Moral Relativism.” A little nugget of a reading selection popped out. To whit:

Submission of the Heart to Truth And The Relativistic Churchgoer
"A religious believer who knows the true and the good in his head but who doesn’t love it in his heart and his life — he won’t submit to it, he wants to make it relative to his desires, relative to what his heart really loves and wants and seeks — he’ll lose even the truth and goodness he already has by making it relative to himself, his heart, his will, his desires, his demands. He won’t submit is heart to truth. That’s the essence of all true religion: submission of the heart to truth, to God, to what God is: truth and moral goodness.

That’s why I say that the honest and moral atheist is a religious man and the realistic churchgoer is not. The atheist really wants to submit to the truth; he just doesn’t know what he truth is. The relativistic churchgoer has had the truth given to him, and he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t want to submit to it, he won’t convert his heart and his life to it. So he chooses to change it instead of letting it change him. He wants to sing “My Way”. …It’s the first things principle: put first things first and second things will follow; refuse to put first things first and you lose the second things too."

One can see that those seduced by the secularism they drown in everyday will eventually fall away.

More here (the first of the two posts):

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/09/15/the-diabolists-among-us/

and Kreeft’s book:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/09/16/book-recommendation-a-refutation-of-moral-relativism-by-peter-kreeft/

regards

dj

 

[mdcpensive1]

I would like to clarify that I wasn’t defending the position. I was simply pointing out that the argument offered didn’t address the actual issue.

Hello Drawmack hope things are going well for you. I hope I can give an explaination as it was expained to me.

You ask why priests were moved around and say it was a coverup. I can see how a lot of people see that as happening, but that is not how it was.

There was a sex study many years ago called the Kinsinger Report that had much information from case studies and experiments. Many of the people who worked on the report were or eventually wound up at the University of Indiana. The US heirarchy knew there was a problem with some of it’s priests but wanted to get some so called “expert” advice and happened to get it from this institution. They were told that these problem priests could or may be “cured” and this is what instigated the moving of them to get them out of their situations and to another place. I believe that the receipt of very bad advice and the avoidance of public shame worked against the intents of the hierarchy to solve the problem. There were many cases that had gag orders and this was interpreted as a cover-up or non cooperation. The whole thing was a mess and hurtful to the victims and the faithful. When a bond of trust is broken it is difficult or almost impossible to regain it. A few has caused much pain to the ones who have given their lives for the faithful by giving suspicion to those who did not deserve it.

Our priests need our prayers because they are attacked most vigorously by satan and his minions. He always attacks the leaders hardest because if the leaders fall the followers are soon to follow. Satan has done a lot of work in this last century. To defeat Christ He wanted to defeat God’s plan of using the Jews in salvation history and along comes Hitler trying to exterminate them all. Communism came along next and tried to get rid of the Church by substituting the State as supreme. There are attacks on our morals, attacks on our priests, etc all trying to stop the victory that Christ won for us on the Cross.

I hope this makes some sense of what I see as happening.
Talk to you later because I go on a vacation for one week starting in a few hours.

mdcpensive1

 

[yablabo]

I wanted to get everyone’s opinion on why most adult Catholics fall away from the Church. Do you think it poor Catholic education and they do not really know what the Church believes? Could it be that they have an issue with certain moral issues such as abortion? I appreciate evryones opinion.

God Bless,

There are only three reasons why someone does something bad:

He doesn’t know it is bad.
He doesn’t believe it is bad.
He doesn’t care it is bad.

I think in most cases with mature adult so-called “Catholics” it is because they fall in the third group. The first moral principles are typically rejected, I think (i.e., to seek the truth above all things, and to do good and avoid evil), because people would rather justify sins.

– Nicole

 

[sckcd]

I have one foot in the catholic church and the other in the evangelical church.

It is like the catholic church has the mystical and the evangelical church has the preaching. The blend is perfect.

I make neither the catholic or the evangelic happy with how I worship or the content of what i see as proper doctrine. Escpecially in these end of times.

(I picked out the parts that I especially agreed with

I totally agree. I go to both and find that what one lacks, the other provides. I enjoy worship at both churches and those who say that it’s “bad” to attend one or the other (depending on your POV), should just MTOB.

As for fallen away Catholics, here’s my take:

My husband has only attended Mass a handful of times since high school. While he remains Catholic in his beliefs, he hasn’t cared to go to church or grow in his faith at all. He has actually stated that he learned “all that stuff” in school (parochial) growing up and didn’t need to go to bible study, read the bible, or attend church, etc. He feels like he’s “done” when it comes to growing as a Christian. Also, IMO, it seems that in our area, there aren’t a lot of ministries at the CC to involve members enough. I think that’s important. At Evangelical churches there seems to be more enthusiasm and I think it’s because they do have a lot of “extras” when it comes to ministries.

And as for the “music tickling their ears” comment someone made earlier, good worship music isn’t for entertainment. While it does sound good, the music at my Baptist church often moves me to tears as I read and sing the words. It’s not to entice people to come to church.

 

[paul_c]

You know jesus talked about this in a way with the parable of the sower.

Some people just have no interest in Religion and immediately fall away. They become athiests and agnostics by and large.

Some find themselves in trouble and fall away. This might be a moral dilemma like an unwanted pregnancy where they choose abortion or they get divorced and then leave the church because they recognize the inconsistency; Many of these seek out 'greener pastures", with the more morally accommodating churches

Some are throttled out of the church by the desires of daily life. They just can’t be bothered because they have other things to do. I think this is the biggest group. They just stay as non-practicing Catholics. This is why only 30% of Catholics go to mass on a weekly basis.

And then there are those that bear fruit. staying active in the church.

 

[JohnPaul64]

Because singles are ignored, that’s why. It’s not disagreement with moral issues. It’s because singles are treated like second-class citizens. That’s why. All singles get is a token pat on the head, like “oh, that’s a vocation: being single is a vocation.” I don’t think people understand how demeaning and patronizing that attitude is. Accordingly, that is why SINGLE Catholics leave the Church. Maybe 2010 or 2011 can be Year of The Single and some of those fallen-away SINGLE Catholics can be called home to Rome, too.

I agree with you havana, Remember when they talk of vocations you rarely hear talk about singles just married people or a life in the church as a priest or nun. I just don’t think society or the church are geared to thinking of people as singles. I have in the past year rediscovered my faith after being away for awhile. I don’t think I’m viewed as a second class citizen but ever since I joined the church I’m at I’ve never really been embraced or welcomed by anyone (going on a year now), I was welcomed over the phone by a secretary when I called to join the church. Even at the end of mass the priest barely shakes my hand or answers me. Its frustrating but I won’t ever leave the church again because its not the reason I’m there. I am however looking at different parishes to join. I just look at it as a cross to bear and think on how Jesus felt at times he was rejected. Offer it up! With more of us being single I pray the church members look at us in a new light.

 

[lookaround]

I’ll give a bit of my testimony
My family is Jewish and Catholic. For the majority of my life I was raised Jews (Bar Mitzvah and everything). However, I did attend a Catholic Church on Easter and Christmas with my family. So I knew of Jesus without really knowing Jesus.
While I was away at college I started to read the bible. I did not own a bible but I was able to find one online (biblegateway). I read the four Gospels slowly over a period of several months. It was during this time that God was working in me bringing me to Christ.
Once I accepted Jesus Christ in my heart, I felt it was important to be baptized and attend a church.
Since the only Christians I knew were Catholic and my family was Catholic. I figured that the Catholic Church would probably be as good as any (I also knew that it was one of the oldest).
I attended RCIA classes for four months and really surprised the instructor by how much I knew.
I was baptized and confirmed and very happy to be (what I considered at the time) an official Christian.

About 1 year later
At home I started to attend a Catholic Church near my dads house. During one of the Masses the Priest asked for volunteers to help with the youth group. Being eager to help the RCC I volunteered (this is where the story gets sad).

After helping out for about half a year I was asked by the Priest to no longer attend the youth group. I respectfully left (trusting the Priest).
When I told my family they said I need to find out why I was asked to leave. I made numerous attempts to contact the Priest but he was not getting back to me.

Eventually I was able to meet with him and asked him if I did anything wrong to which he said no. I asked him why I had to leave to which he gave me several different answers ranging from me not having a stable income (even though I told him I was taking classes) to having my jacket on when meeting with him. It became obvious that the problem was not me but apparently with him. He just didn’t like me. I am not angry at him, he is just a person like everyone else but I trusted him. It was way too early in my faith to take a blow like this.

(I would like to write more but I have to get ready for work)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I wanted to get everyone’s opinion on why most adult Catholics fall away from the Church. Do you think it poor Catholic education and they do not really know what the Church believes? Could it be that they have an issue with certain moral issues such as abortion? I appreciate evryones opinion.

God Bless,

It is because many adult Catholics do not understand the teachings of the Church. Because of this, they also have issues with certain teachings. The Church has been saying this for most of the 20th and 21st century.

Go up and ask any Catholic after Mass (who does not know that you are a Catholic, maybe at a different parish) to explain the belief in the Eucharist, the Immaculate Conception, the Sacraments, Baptism, Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick, the Assumption, Original Sin, etc. Most will become defensive and ignore you. Sometimes you will get partial answers like, “Some Catholics believe that Marry never had any other children”, or “Jesus was born without any sin.” or “The Church leaves most moral issues up to each individuals conscience.”

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I have a few friends who stopped attending church in their late 20s/early 30s. Guess what, they all moved in with their boyfriends. Church teaching on sexual morality was suddenly very inconvenient and they decided that it was easier to fall away from the church then to stay, figure things out and grow in faith (and morality). In several conversations I tried to understand their actions better and realised that my friends never really grew in faith and didn’t understand most of the teachings.

My conclusion is that people leave the Catholic church because its teaching is challenging and requires maturity, and that knowledge of the faith is pretty low.

 

[SteveGC]

From my observations, much falling away from the Church is largely based on the types of societal influences that originated during the counterculture of the 60s and 70s. Influences that have negatively touched every decade and generation since.

It is no surprise to me that cradle Catholics who today are in their late 40s to early 60s are some of the most vehemently anti-Catholic people I encounter. They were the ones most influenced during that time. To test that theory, the next time you encounter an aggressive anti-Catholic on here, see if they will share their age. My experience has been that they almost always are 50-somethings. This is NOT to say that there are very few devout 50-something Catholics today…as this website attests to the contrary…but they are in the minority, and their perserverance to remain faithful, fruitful and ever-growing is to be highly commended.

Today, parishes are fortunately bringing in younger and younger people, and we have many brilliant lay apostolates, apologists and theologians to thank for this new evangelism …but the Catholic Church of the last 30 years in America has been predominantly made up of the elderly…because by the time the counterculture came around for them, they were at an age (mid 30s to mid 40s) where they recognized where that type of culture ultimately leads…spiritual death. The Church lost so many 30- and 20-somethings, and older teens in the 60s and 70s because of the massive revolutionary movements with regard to sexual mores, women’s reproductive rights, and especially anti-goverment / anti-authority, which so many of them gravitated toward. These folks today are some of the most vocal critics of the Church.

It wasn’t just the counterculture of the 60s…but also what it gave way to…the “me generation”. Individualism spread like wild fire in the 80s, 90s, and even in our decade. It grows daily, right alongside of sexual immorality, anti-authority, and pro-choice influences which have continued to grow since that time.

The Catholic Church stands no chance as an attractive and necessary source of Christian truth and spiritual nurturing, against a culture which has learned to hate authority, rabidly defend their right to own their bodies and do with them what they will, and find comfort in the notion that truth is subjective and morals are relative. The Church is trying to catch up to this massive denegration of society. It’s happening…but there’s alot of damage already done. This will get me into trouble, but I will say that a good number…not all…but some non-Catholic church communities are attractive to so many people under the influence of this societal cancer because, perhaps just subconsciously, that flavor of Christianity allows them to have Jesus their way, allow them to retain control of truth and morals in their life, and not be held accountable for immoral behavior in their life. Again, some…not all.

 

[havana1]

Today, parishes are fortunately bringing in younger and younger people…

Oh, I couldn’t disagree more…or perhaps agreeing with how literal you mean “younger and younger.” Yes, you’ve got the Sunday school and K-8 kids and families and LifeTeen, but ater that…? It’s like there’s a concerted effort to EXCLUDE singles from the Eucharist and from the life of local parish communities. Single Catholics are invisible. Single Catholics don’t exist in the Church except as a “vocation” and the lies we tell singles that there’s someone out there for them and just be patient and keep praying.

For the rare Catholic parish that does have a “singles” group, there seems to be a “cut-off” age, whether 21 or 25 or 30 or 35 or whatever. Or, at the Catholic churches I have tried to get involved in, a minimum age of 35 or 36, only to find out when I go there it’s a group of senior citizens. Yeah, like I’m really going to have a lot in common with retirees who have grown kids older than me…that’s what passes for “singles” groups at a lot of Catholic parishes. I’m not exaggerating. (I won’t name parishes publicly, but if you’re curious for proof, PM me for the name of the parish and number to call if you don’t believe me.)

Logic would dictate that if there are younger priests coming into the parishes, 20’s, 30’s range, that they might at least have some appreciation for the singles in their parish, but unfortunately, that’s not the case at all.

I absolutely understand Church teachings and I strive for the fullness provided by the One, Catholic, Holy, and Apostolic Church, and I absolutely know about how participating in the sacraments will bring a more fruitful relationship with Jesus. (It’s a myth that “fallen away Catholics” are necessarily ignorant of it.) However, I also know all too well what it’s like to constantly be at the “back seat of the bus” any time I go the church. If the people dispensing the Lord’s Supper don’t want me there, I can take the hint. (And apparently, a lot of people already have, or else this wouldn’t be a thread.)

 

[SteveGC]

hi havana,

I wasn’t attempting to be necessarily factual or statistical with my phrase “younger and younger”. That’s simply from my personal observations, and I only mentioned it briefly to concede that there seems to be a better trend going on in terms of younger converts, but that the Church is still largely made up of the elderly, and I think this is so because of the kind of culture which has evolved in recent decades. That was the main focus of my post, my opinion about why there are fallen away Catholics.

I know nothing about the “single Catholic” issue you are talking about. I can tell you that this isn’t the case at any parish I’ve ever been involved with. Exclusion from the Eucharist and parish communities? Is this really a problem within the Church? Admittedly, I’ve only been in the Church for 3 years now, but this is the first I’ve heard of this sort of thing…and I do try to keep my ear to the ground with all the trends. Guess I missed this issue. Do you think this singles issue is a big reason why so many adult Catholics have fallen away?