Fallen in love

[dulcissima]

If you stop spending time with SF, you will begin to wonder why you ever felt that way.

Probably not.

To the OP though. I have been where you are right now, where you have an intense spiritual experience with someone, and suddenly feel all of these feelings like your eyes are being opened for the first time. I just want to tell you though, you absolutely have to be willing to give up this friendship entirely. I think that what you are experiencing is a spiritual attack. You have found something that is good and holy, but from having been in your situation…I can tell you that the wisest course of action is to put quite a lot of distance between you and this other woman. I know it might be disastrous to cut it off abruptly, you’ll have to weigh that one. My advice is to spend very little time together, and no alone time if possible. Do not do anymore intense praying together. That is really far too intimate. Offer up the sacrifice of this friendship for the sake of your marriage. All of the time and effort that you have previously devoted to your MIL and this SF, pour it now into your marriage. All of that spiritual intensity, pour it into prayers for your DW. Remember hers is the soul entrusted to you by God. Your vocation is to her. If you do this, I promise you that you will find out the real truth about your marriage.

 

[vocatio]

JJ, You have been tempted…move on. Do not give into sin. I know what it’s like to feel apart from my wife. It has only been through my wife’s deep conversion from a fundamental evangelist faith that our marriage began to grow more deeply. I know that it is a human instinct to want to be loved. I would bet my life on it if I could that I’ve been through far more pain than you could possibly imagine. I wish someone would have knocked my father upside the head before he royally screwed up our lives. My older brother commited suicide, my youngest tried twice …honestly there have been many times that I wished God would just take my life because of the lack of parents not understanding what it means to love.

Sorry about the age thing, and the remark. I was in a hurry, mad and upset that you’d go ahead and hurt your 3 daughters. Your wife may have a lot to do with this. But if you seek counseling with you wife you could make this work. If she is unwilling, then she is grossly mistaken. Your age indicates that your wife and you are part of the post Vatican group that got skipped over in learning the faith. This is not an insult now…stop looking for insults here. My words were a bit harsh I agree. But just like my drill sergeant did to shake us up from doing dumb things that could cause us to loose our life, so did I do something, probably unorthodox in your book, but in my world this was quite typical.

You see, I came out of a Fundamental Evangelical Christian faith that works like this. It’s still instinctive to me to jump to the evangelizing and teach that “the wage of sin is death”. Sorry about that…I was in a hurry to get somewhere when I wrote the post. However, the basic message is stay away from that woman. Even if you do end up divorced, you don’t need to pull this woman in the middle and you’ll need time to clean up your life and hopefully understand the need to avoid a relationship during this difficult time of your children’s life. Sure we have a deep need to be wanted. I lived many years without dating…and I have to watch myself to insure I don’t slip into sin. It’s rather easy I know. But I’ve always been faithful to my wife…at least physically. Mental sin is just a step away from acting on it in the flesh. You are supposed to “avoid the near occasion of sin”. You’re Catholic. You should already know that.

You would have to seek an annulment before even dating. So don’t ruin everyone’s life over a high schoolish crush. That’s what this is I bet. Don’t allow yourself to be fooled. And back off of the crazy psychology people. We still have to conform our lives to the teachings of the Catholic Church. “There ain’t no right way to do wrong.” My former Army Sergeant Major told us this when someone got into serious trouble and tried to justify it somehow. He was a Protestant Preacher on top of his graduate degree and gave the best advice any man could give from that walk of life.

JJ You are a 52 year old man…that is 6 years my senior. I’m working on my 18th year of marriage and it has only been my love for God that has helped me to love my wife as Christ loves the Church. The E5Men website has several testimonies that show how men and women were drawn closer together. My wife almost fell out of her chair with a sort of lustful love when she found out I had joined this organization. You should at least try it. It will help you discern your situation. However, after looking at my post…I see …yes it is over the top. I was angry and hopeful at “knocking” some sense into you. I remember you from the first time you posted this topic. you were given very good advice from several people. It looks like you are placing yourself in the near occasion of sin rather than avoiding it. If it hurts, I’m sorry, but you know deep down that it’s probabaly true.

Just look at me like I’m one of your daughters, even though I’m a man. My dad made similar mistakes. My mom was as cold as they came. But he had no right to do it to my stepmom on those basis. So…yes…it hit too close to home for me. And for your own sake, please get away from this girl and if your marriage is salvagable, work it out with your wife if you can and if not go through the proper procedures to get an annulment if this is truly where you feel called. My prayers are still for you and I hope you understand that penance is a good thing that will help both of us. This novena is for you and because I am doing it it will help me to be a better husband and father too. I would ask you to do the same for me. I have 3 children 13, 6 and 2. Yes, we still don’t get much sleep and why I’m awake now.

 

[Katie1723]

Whoo, what an extremely judgemental lot just came alive here!..!

That sometimes happens when you post on an anonymous forum. You ask for an opinion…you get one. And sometimes it may not be what you want to hear.
I do hope all works out for you.
Kathy

 

[vocatio]

Brother JJ,
Please listen to today’s homily on EWTN. I believe it is relevant and presented a much better way than I could ever deliver at this point in my life. The message relates also to others here that have confronted what I was trying to say. PseudoPscycology

ewtn.com/audiovideo/index.asp

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His ritiousness.

Give your wife a kiss and tell her you love her. Do not close yourself off to her.

Peace.

 

[Gamera]

Whoo, what an extremely judgemental lot just came alive here!

People see what they want to see : some posters probably half-read a couple of paragraphs, then thought, “This man wants to have an affair! I’ll set him straight!”

Amazing, isn’t it, how eager people are to project their own life experiences and issues onto others. Once on another “Catholic” board, I posted that I enjoyed being popular with women back in my single days, and you should have seen the venomous replies — that I was “predatory,” that I “must have been an ugly child,” that they “hoped I learned that dating isn’t a sport” — unbelievable insanity. And this from people who bore screen names of Saints!!! It was like the old Ozzy Osbourne lyric, “People around me talking to the walls inside.”

Don’t take replies like that to heart. They aren’t directed at you. You are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing – confronting temptation and fighting it. Good for you.

 

[wallar]

My heart goes out to you. I will hold you and your family in my prayers.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Wow. You were married 17 years and through that time your wife never fell in love with God because of your spirituality and deep unselfish ministry to others?

Sorry. Had to get that swipe in. All your language in your post is designed to cast your wife as the shrew and the bad guy, and your SF as the redeeming angel. Nice.

So how much of the imbalance in your marriage was your fault? Here’s a clue about women: you can’t have sexual intimacy with a man without emotional intimacy. And you’re barrelling in that direction at 65MPH with SF. Nature abhors a vacuum, and so does the supernatural. You have left a horrendous vacuum in your marriage.

Maybe if you had been a husband who was motivated by love of God and love of your wife instead of manipulation and guilt, things would be different. Disrespect is a two-way street.

Let’s examine this from the viewpoint of your wife… she has a husband who seems content to let his marriage disintegrate and the family spiritual life go downhill. Then her mother gets ill. She sees to her spiritual needs and the New Angel comes in and your husband, who may not have given much thought to God before, all of a sudden becomes A Believer. And he’s gaga over the New Angel. Her virtues magnify wife’s vices in his eyes.

And her mother is dying on top of that. Her husband criticizes her for what he perceives her motives are. You use a lot of words like “seems” and “appears” when describing your wife’s motives. YOU DON’T KNOW? YOU NEVER ASKED?

She’s your wife, pal. You should know how she really feels while her mother is dying and why she didn’t seem eager to go visit her. Mother/daughter relationships can be complicated. There may be issues there you don’t know about. Maybe her mother made decisions that determined your wife was an only child, and now she resents being the only one left to take care of her mother. I’m glad MIL found God before she died. But since you don’t know your wife’s real motives and feelings, don’t criticize them to us.

She’s obviously not stupid and recognizes your sweet tone with SF and your new-found glow. I’d wonder if my husband was having an affair if after 17 years he was such a changed man.

Fact is, you’re having a spiritual affair. And praying with someone is in some ways more intimate than physical relationships, and they allow someone to betray a spouse without all that icky physical shame. Why, you can even feel SUPERIOR to your spouse when “all you’re doing is praying.”

That would make me make nasty comments in front of my kids too. Just sayin’…

And your daughters ARE watching. They will grow to hate that woman if she is perceived as breaking up your family. And they will see the reason for the breakup as “religion” and some may even abandon religion because your religiosity is seen as the cause of pain. Do you really want to go there? A man fulfills his role to God for the sake of his family. So be that man.

And ditch the priests who are advising you. You’re either not telling them everything, or they are young and inexperienced. THEY might be able to have a SF with no problems, but they took a vow of celibacy and aren’t married men. (So I see you are eager to pick and choose which advice you like from people judging you based on their own experiences. You just don’t like the people who tell you what you don’t want to hear?)

What are you going to morning Mass with SF for??? You don’t belong kneeling next to her, starting your day with her! Start the day in prayer with your own wife.

Apologize to her for your distance. Vow to make things better. Stop going to mass with someone else. (That would be a test to see if you were really in love with God or if that was just a cool way to hang out with the SF you are infatuated with.)

I’ve seen what “beautiful spiritual friendships” can do to a marriage and a family. You are in love with an ideal woman. You don’t live with her. She only sees you when you are at your best. She doesn’t have to clean out your bathroom sink. She hasn’t spent 17 years with you. So don’t compare the shiny and new with the tried and true.

Sorry I’m not warm and fuzzy. I’ll tell you what you need to hear. Satan uses good things to steer us away. He finds sins tailor-made to our own personalities. He dangles them before us. Then ZAP! He’s got us. You’ve gotten some very very good advice here.

Now first thing: Go get a paper. Write down ten virtues of your wife. Come back and write us an essay about her using the same loving language you used about SF, describing what is so wonderful about her she was the only woman in the world you picked to marry and bear your children. Concentrate on THAT woman. I really want to hear your new description of your wife.
That’s a challenge. As you think, so you shall act. Your feet follow your brains and your eyes every time. Redirect your brain and you’re set.

 

[lizaanne]

JJ - I’m sorry that you have been beat up a bit on this thread, but sadly that’s what seems to happen here sometimes. You have stated clearly that you are trying to do the right thing, have been tempted but never acted on your temptation, and are going to work on making things right.

To my mind, the discussion is finished unless YOU need further insight from others.

----Let’s let this guy alone now so he can fix his marriage. I think he’s got the right idea now.



~Liza

 

[vocatio]

People see what they want to see : some posters probably half-read a couple of paragraphs, then thought, “This man wants to have an affair! I’ll set him straight!”

Amazing, isn’t it, how eager people are to project their own life experiences and issues onto others.

Has if ever occurred to you that some of us know where this leads? Is he really fighting temptation? I hope so. But summing up the entire sick…and it is sick because sin is sick…“affair” from 4 months ago on another post no same subject shows that he is giving in to it by making himself available by going to mass with this woman. He’s not “avoiding the near occasion of sin”. Why is this so difficult for your to undestand Gamera?

Once on another “Catholic” board, I posted that I enjoyed being popular with women back in my single days, and you should have seen the venomous replies — that I was “predatory,” that I “must have been an ugly child,” that they “hoped I learned that dating isn’t a sport” — unbelievable insanity. And this from people who bore screen names of Saints!!! It was like the old Ozzy Osbourne lyric, “People around me talking to the walls inside.”

Looks like you are NOT following your own preaching to me. Sounds like you are drawing from your own exerience to show that we shouldn’t draw from our own experiences. How hypocritical again and serves to justify this older man’s temptation.

Don’t take replies like that to heart. They aren’t directed at you. You are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing – confronting temptation and fighting it. Good for you.

Confronting temptation in the confessional and in prayer is what needs to take place…not smear it all over the world. In order for a relationship to grow it must be nurtured. We must give sacrificially of ourselves, especially during the dry times. This relationship we call love is a two way street. I could elaborate from experience on that but choose not to for now. I too have been in a relationship that did not seem open…but patiently waiting my wife left her childhood faith and opened up to the possiblity that Catholicism is in fact true. Now we are closer than ever before. Even though I knew there was a gap, I still elevated her to dignity, worthy or not. I also want to suggest reading Epidemic: How Teen Sex Is Killing Our Kids by Dr. Meg Meeker. The title in my parish bulliten reads "How Dads can Help Raise strong Daughters. This man has 3 daughters. I only have one. His example with either positively or adversly affect his teenage daughters. This is more than about him. It’s about 6 people and God.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Your post seems to be filled with justifications for your actions and feelings.

Very simply, you are committing adultery already by making this ‘spiritual friend’ more a part of your life than your wife.

You need a serious wake up call.

Stop seeing this person immediately. If God means anything to you start attending Mass elsewhere and cease all contact with your ‘spiritual friend’.

I don’t mean to seems harsh but you are in serious trouble here.

Do yourself a favor and sit down and try to imagine the roles reversed!

 

[iamrefreshed]

People see what they want to see : some posters probably half-read a couple of paragraphs, then thought, “This man wants to have an affair! I’ll set him straight!”

Amazing, isn’t it, how eager people are to project their own life experiences and issues onto others. Once on another “Catholic” board, I posted that I enjoyed being popular with women back in my single days, and you should have seen the venomous replies — that I was “predatory,” that I “must have been an ugly child,” that they “hoped I learned that dating isn’t a sport” — unbelievable insanity. And this from people who bore screen names of Saints!!! It was like the old Ozzy Osbourne lyric, “People around me talking to the walls inside.”

Don’t take replies like that to heart. They aren’t directed at you. You are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing – confronting temptation and fighting it. Good for you.

Sometimes it’s necessary to shove someone out of the way of the oncoming bus. Tough love is still love.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I’m not sure if he’s confronting temptation or if he’s taking it out to dinner and wining and dining it. Did he come here and expect us to pat him on the back and tell him that this blessed union of souls should continue, and he should leave that harpy who couldn’t even visit her own dying mother? (I wouldn’t want to go if I had to sit and watch my husband moon over the SF while they prayed.)

A relationship like this doesn’t remain static. It either becomes closer and more intense or it fades away. It sounded from his comments like the OP realized he would like to take it to the next level.

Satan loves irony. Imagine the number of souls he could get out of this one all on the pretext of people feeling good and close to God. What a master of deceit and manipulation is Satan. OP is tired of being manipulated? Well, this is a good time to stop and take control of his own motives and desires.

 

[Markstorm]

JJ-

Your humility is an inspiration to me. I hardly ever read people incorrectly, and I can tell that you really are looking for the right thing to do. Good for you.

My advice is to take the encouragement you get here for what it is, and allow yourself to be uplifted and motivated by these warm and friendly words. Then cut it all out, read Liberanosamalo’s post a few times, and act on it.

 

[JohnJames]

Okay all, we’re done. I do not appreciate the assumptions, the extrapolations, the probes into my wife’s psyche, the insinuating of lies to my wife / children / SF / self… the implications weakness and likely surrender to becomming of me.

I thank all of you, but especially those who have opened their hearts and offered prayers to me and all involved. To the pointed others, I suggest prayer and discernment before blasting ill-motivated responses.

Concluding remarks to all who seem to automatically revert to the evils of this:

I have come to know God as never before.
At age 52, grade school and high school make sense!
I find myself seeking an adoration chapel rather than having lunch.
I have seen angels following mass protecting God’s alter.
I’ve seen materialism, greed and self centeredness give way to a desperate embrace of faith as mom-in-law’s health waned
I have experienced that moment of transition of this life to His in the passing of mom-in-law
I live my life differently now and have changed through influence acceptable language within my office, and have even solicited a “God Bless” from one co-worker.
I seek opportunities often detrimental to others’ image of me standing up for Christ.
I go to Wal Mart just for the joy of eliciting a smile from strangers.
I have reached out to my parents, one now seriously ill and have shown them God’s love with a “pat on the back” for a job well done.
Parents know and love SF as SF
I prayed our first rosary together with my wife last week, and pray with her routinely now.
I witness my wife now at mass and adoration daily, often with me.
My children have seen my faith conversion and all its dramatics and know it as true and important.
I listen to different music. Now my wife listens to different music.
I had all three of my children with my wife and I at mass on Sunday - first time in years!
I’ve been a witness to miracle after miracle - God’s touch of endorsement for paths I follow sometimes in doubt.
I heard my wife say, “JJ, SF has the gift of healing” following a miracle moment last week and SF’s being there for my wife in prayer.
I am sleeping with my wife, loving my wife, and eliciting her change: “Follow me in love following the Lord, but never will I give up the truth of my being for you”
And I know that marriage, by God’s law, more means discipline than fleeing another of His followers out of fear!

Know God’s work in my confession of this momentary temptation, and be in kindness and love as taught.

God bless,

JJ

 

[vocatio]

JJ, your initial post read quite different and obviosly I’m not the only one that read into this the way I did.

Now that your spiritual life is improved,

GOOD FOR YOU!!!

Still praying for you and your family and SF. This time with a little more information. May God’s will be done in your life.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Okay all, we’re done. I do not appreciate the assumptions, the extrapolations, the probes into my wife’s psyche, the insinuating of lies to my wife / children / SF / self… the implications weakness and likely surrender to becomming of me…To the pointed others, I suggest prayer and discernment before blasting ill-motivated responses.

Wait! Hold the phone there, pal! Did you READ what you originally wrote??? YOU are the one who opened the door to the assumptions and extrapolations and probes of your wife’s psyche!

Needless to say, I was very dissapointed in my wife’s inability / unwillingness (not sure) to be there for her mother those last days. Very dissapointed, especially since we mom-in-law had become so dear to me.

My wife seemed to always resent SF’s being so much for her mother in ways she wasn’t. Still she asked SF, with such a loving and heart felt introduction of appreciatiation, to lead prayer at mom’s Rosary. Since the funeral my wife’s done everything to belittle and dismiss SF from our lives. The day of the funeral she, in front of family, accused SF and I of adultry. Please trust me here - absolutely no way! She’d invite her with other friends over the house and subsequently shun and belittle her in front of others. She’s valled her an “evil” influence and told me she “fears for my soul” over our friendship, even though SF continues to reach out and pray for my wife at mass, adoration, home… frequently.
…Still reflecting back on my marriage since the funeral I now realize how much of it was inbalanced. There had been no sexual intimacy for years. I found myself routinely motivated by manipulation and guilt. I was called a “born again Christian” by her in front of my children, with “nobody can stand them” associated with my faith presence in our home. I recall years of being disrespected, couples counseling… to no avail.

You pretty clearly let us know that you don’t know and don’t care what your wife’s motives are, and how awful she is to denigrate SF in front of others. We only see your side of the story.

As for the “implications weakness and likely surrender to becomming of me…” you don’t like us making…

Now this morning, while attending 6:30 mass before work with SF I found myself for the first time developing feelings for SF. I felt compelled to hold her and tell her I love her. Never had I felt this form of attraction before.

So here I am, just a few hours from that moment feeling, as I have for months, that I hold little in the way of true love for my wife and question our future together. I so love my children and wold never want to hurt them, yet see our family environment in many respects more disruptive to their development than good. And now, I feel I’ve fallen in love with SF. Besides moving to Alaska, what’s this grown up alter boy to do? Need prayer I’m so confused…

So you’re telling us that at Mass you have this urge to reach out and hold this woman you’re not married to and tell her you love her and you’re mad at US for drawing conclusions?

You never felt that form of attraction before? Why did you marry your wife, then? (The one whom you hold little in the way of true love for, as you said.) And you tell us you think you are in love. I don’t think the altar boy has completely grown up, if he then turns around and tells us a few hours later how wonderful and loving his marriage is now.

It’s nice you’re seeing the glory of your wedding vows now. So why did you write the first post?

I’ve seen materialism, greed and self centeredness give way to a desperate embrace of faith as mom-in-law’s health waned

At the risk of probing your wife’s psyche a little… maybe some of her conflicting feelings about her mother were because THIS was the mother she knew for 40 or so years. And maybe she married a man just like her mother. (People tend to do that… marrying “their parent.”) And your marriage has suffered from it. Now that you see the light, thank your SF and bid her goodbye. She taught you a lesson in true love and self sacrifice and pointed you toward God. Now go be a proper husband and father. And stop writing to people on messageboards asking for advice if you don’t want the advice you’re given.

You’re confused? Now I’M confused because your last post is a complete 180 from your first one.

Good luck.

 

[CatholicSam]

I’ve been counseled by two priests on the situation who both concluded our friendship was exceptionally influenced by God as the makings of a “spiritual friendship”. Completely endorsed if managed properly (as we have). Something to be treasured.

A relationship that makes your wife feel like dirt (as she obviously does, claiming that you’re committing adultery with SF), is not “to be treasured.” It is to be ended immediately. The fact that your wife suspects adultery is proof that you have NOT managed your “friendship” properly as you seem to believe in the above quote.

 

[dulcissima]

Ummm, JohnJames, read yesterday’s post and read today’s. They don’t exactly line up. In 24 hours time, they both can’t be true. Are you sort of reaching here, altering your view of the way things really are, to make it okay to continue a close intimate relationship with this woman of faith. Please, don’t count on her to be the strong one. You are the man, and you are the one who needs to be strong…for your family and for your own sanctity as well as your friend’s. Don’t mess with temptation.

 

[Seatuck]

John James, you need to end the relationship with SF.

Consider going on Retrouvaille with your wife. You guys need to reconnect.

www.retrouvaille.org

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I think you nailed it, Dulcissima. Now he’s got mom and dad’s blessing AND the wife’s!

As for SF’s “gift of healing?” By their fruits ye shall know them.

He doesn’t want to flee another of God’s followers out of fear?

I hear a lot of mental gymnastics going on here to justify the continuation of this relationship.

You see angels now? Wow. What a gift. Make sure those are the good angels you’re looking at, though, pal. Discernment of the spirit and all that.

Seriously, JJ, we don’t want the initials to change from SF to HW (Home Wrecker.) First be honest with yourself about what is going on here. You can’t be honest with anyone else if you’re lying to yourself.

And when you break off all contact with SF, don’t tell her it’s because you love her. That might open the door wide for Satan to walk right through. Tell her you appreciate how she has walked the path toward God with you and brought you back to where you need to be. If she is truly all about God, she will say goodbye and continue with her ministry to others and leave the married man to his wife. If her motives are less than Godly, she’ll cling to you like you seem to want to cling to her.

Any time you give to this other woman is being STOLEN from your wife and daughters. STOLEN. As in THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.

That’s all I have to say. When you’re looking at those angels around the altar at Mass, remember you knelt on an altar and promised GOD and your WIFE you would cling only to her as long as you both shall live.

(Me, personally, when I’m kneeling at Mass, I’m not thinking about reaching out and embracing anybody else in the Church. That kind of mental distraction seems to come from the Dark Side. Nip it. Nip it!)