False Devotion to Mary

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ToeInTheWater said:
I personally don’t think that’s what’s going on. Some posters have questioned the idea that Marian devotion is required, and I think there is an idea that some who practice Marian devotion do so in a prideful manner. But I have not seen anyone state that the concept of Marian devotion is “wrong”, as in, “no one should do it”.

I think you – and I am not referring to any other posters, but just you – are trying to have a good faith discussion. This I appreciate. Yet you seem to vacillate between “agreeing to disagree” and feeling compelled to “defend Mary”. This makes it difficult to figure out what to say to you.
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St.Dominic

The Rosary and Marian devotion are private revelations approved by the Church
 
ToeInTheWater said:
I personally don’t think that’s what’s going on. Some posters have questioned the idea that Marian devotion is required, and I think there is an idea that some who practice Marian devotion do so in a prideful manner. But I have not seen anyone state that the concept of Marian devotion is “wrong”, as in, “no one should do it”.

I think you – and I am not referring to any other posters, but just you – are trying to have a good faith discussion. This I appreciate. Yet you seem to vacillate between “agreeing to disagree” and feeling compelled to “defend Mary”. This makes it difficult to figure out what to say to you.
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Lol, well thank you. So for the most part I don’t want to argue about any of this. I’d rather say what I have to say and then get out. However, there are certain things that are said, little things maybe that hit me and I say " woah, if I don’t respond then it will be as if I am agreeing with that". So that’s why I say I am compelled to get back in.

The other issue is I am a Marine, which means I’m dumb, and when I commit to something, it’s as good as done. Which brings up another issue, that also means I tend to focus on achieving my mission and not really caring or acknowledging any others, something I’m trying to work on.

Between you and me, as if no one else can read this, lol, all in all this got blown way out of proportion. I think both sides have done more harm than good now. People don’t tend to react well to being attacked. I know I certainly feel like I have been, and so do the others I’m sure.
 
USMC_Convert said:
Between you and me, as if no one else can read this, lol, all in all this got blown way out of proportion. I think both sides have done more harm than good now. People don’t tend to react well to being attacked. I know I certainly feel like I have been, and so do the others I’m sure.
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Unfortunately it seems people are forgetting how to actually have a respectful disagreement; and I agree that this is not confined to any one “side” or another. I do think some of the posters here are wounded by other past Mary topics that were even more contentious, enough that they were deleted.

I think one trap it is very easy to fall into is lump people together into factions and I think some on the “Marian devotion is not for me” camp can assume “everyone who promotes Marian devotion is a self-righteous nag out to correct those who don’t fall in line”, I probably have done so myself. Of course it is easier to do that than respond to each poster individually, but that doesn’t make it right.
 
oldgraymare2 said:
Hi Clare,

I read Techno’s posts differently, here in this thread.

I did not take them literally, but figuratively, instead.

I have noticed that sometimes people will post here using idioms or figurative speech, and instead, members will interpret the posts literally, with the other forms of speech being difficult for them to perhaps notice, or understand, especially if English is not their first language–generally speaking.

He was using idioms in his posts, so when I read the one that you quoted above, I took it figuratively speaking.

The only way that we have of knowing what he meant, is if he comes back to tell us what he meant.

I personally try and give someone the benefit of the doubt when they post, and look at something positively. 🙂
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Of course. That’s the whole point isn’t it? Figurative and flowery language has always been in the church, (particularly in older books about Mary and devotionals) and we see literally dozens of threads a month from people who say “What does this mean? I don’t understand this! This troubles me!” Almost every. single. day.
It does nothing but CONFUSE.
In this day and age, there is no point in the greeting card words when dealing with people who have no experience with Mariology and who are just looking for a reason to call Catholics crazy.
It doesn’t help. It’s not worth it. It’s not helpful.

Why can’t we simply say that Mary is special. Different from us, Our Advocate, the Mother of God. Everyone can understand the love of a mother, and how to love a mother.
We don’t need to pile on a bunch of things that are always misinterpreted.

When a person writes “Mary died at the foot of the cross with Christ” that is deliberate, and invites criticism. If one was enrolled in a Theology class and made that statement…it wouldn’t go well. We’re Catholic here. Someone just posted a thread saying that they believe CAF represents the faith and another said that we are here to clarify and support the teachings. ???
The site might intend that but we all know that many persons post their own personal theologies.

The Church is VERY CLEAR on the place Mary has in salvation history and devotionally.

Our Lady needs no defense.
She stand alone in history.
People who do not want to ask for her intercession miss out on a powerful advocate.
Simple. Arguing about it wins no one over.
 
James248 said:
Christ is the center of our faith. Mary is subordinate. My whole point.
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Of course Jesus is Our Savior!!! I think we all KNOW that, No one is saying that His Mother overtakes Him in any way. But She is a very important person in the order of our Salvation and to love and respect her for that, does not take anything away from Her SON. It was God’s Plan after all!! I loved it because my friends loved my mom. Our ability to love so many and in so many different ways is amazing. Thank God. God Bless, Memaw
 
“hierarchy” is one of humility.

Philippians 2: 6-11

*'His state was divine,

yet He did not cling

to His equality with God

but emptied Himself

to assume the condition of a slave,

and became as men are;

and being as all men are,

he was humbler yet,

even to accepting death on a cross.’
 
ToeInTheWater said:
I personally don’t think that’s what’s going on. Some posters have questioned the idea that Marian devotion is required, and I think there is an idea that some who practice Marian devotion do so in a prideful manner.
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Marian devotion is required, which is why the Church honours her as Mother of the Lord and His faithful.

Look at the feast days.

Look at the Dogmas.

Look at the Prayer of the Church (LOTH)

Look at the Sacramentals.

Look at the history of the Saints.

Look at the words of all Popes.

And look at Scripture itself through the eyes of true Mariology.

Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged”.
But I have not seen anyone state that the concept of Marian devotion is “wrong”, as in, “no one should do it”.
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Wrong. Over many months there have persistent vile and venomous attacks against those wishing to express their love to Jesus through Mary.
I think you – and I am not referring to any other posters, but just you – are trying to have a good faith discussion. This I appreciate. Yet you seem to vacillate between “agreeing to disagree” and feeling compelled to “defend Mary”. This makes it difficult to figure out what to say to you.
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How about, if one is opposed to Catholic truths, to simply remain quiet and read posts in order to learn from people who are not opposed, instead of attacking devotion to the Blessed Virgin.
 
Techno2000 said:
You didn’t think I meant that literally, did you ?
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I understood what you meant!! I know I died a thousands deaths (so to speak) when my first husband died in an accident. Sometimes we are to quick to pounce on every word and criticize. Maybe we need to lighten up a little and give each other a chance to be a bit human. We all know most of us are not scholars and we speak in ordinary ways. Most of the folks that Mary appeared to, ( I only follow Approved ones), were simple uneducated people, even children!! One could read the , “The Story of a Soul.” (St. Teresa,The Little Flower) to see that. Why would God send His Mother to speak to us if She is NOT important to us. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
I understood what you meant!! I know I died a thousands deaths (so to speak) when my first husband died in an accident. Sometimes we are to quick to pounce on every word and criticize. Maybe we need to lighten up a little and give each other a chance to be a bit human. We all know most of us are not scholars and we speak in ordinary ways. Most of the folks that Mary appeared to, ( I only follow Approved ones), were simple uneducated people, even children!! One could read the , “The Story of a Soul.” to see that. God Bless, Memaw
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It was very clear what he meant.

His words were misconstrued and I am fairly sure, due to patterns of behaviour, that those acting in this way were doing this to make him look stupid. Hence, why I said it was uncharitable.

These continuing attacks against Mary ought to sound alarm bells.

I am sure that I am not the only one who has been taking this very seriously.
 
friardchips said:
Stop using Jesus against Mary.

Devotion is necessary for salvation. The whole Church honours Our Lady.

Personal devotion i.e:- conscious personal devotion, is not (necessarily)…

Although it can be argued, that even those people who have been saved outside the visible confines of Sacramental Life - because on some level of their being they conformed to the Will of God in their lives (probably via conscience) and in so doing were also part of the Church spiritually - also pertained to the desires of the Blessed Virgin Mary, as she is the Mother and Beginning of the Church.
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:eek::eek::eek:
 
Don_Ruggero said:
This passage is taken straight from Lumen Gentium, where we read

Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.

For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.

The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary.
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Again my thanks for this proportion.

I honestly never expected to be carped at for my love of Jesus.
 
friardchips said:
Stop accusing me of the things you yourself are doing.

Stop using Jesus to attack Mary.
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That is an appalling and totally **** thing to say. And repeating it is even worse. To accuse anyone here of that? No one is attacking Mary
 
USMC_Convert said:
To both sides of this debate, I think we are getting off track here, to James and those who are arguing his basic points, yes you are absolutely correct, Mary is subordinate, Jesus is the reason for the whole of Christianity. He is God!

To those who are arguing the Marian points including myself, yes, there would be nothing if the Blessed Mother had not said yes, yet her main virtue was that of humility. Remember that, we do a disservice to her if we don’t promote her with her own virtues.

**We are all falling into the trap of pitting Jesus and Mary against each other. ** Can one exist without the other? This is Satan’s doing! He is ruining a good discussion and learning point we have going here. Don’t fall for this, keep it as Jesus and Mary together!

Blessed be Jesus and Mary! Never Blessed be Jesus or Mary…

Who does the Church with the Holy Spirit bless first? “Blessed art thou amongst women and Blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus” Who is most deserving of praise and honor, of course Jesus!
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Only the Marian advocates are doing that

And had Mary said no? Maybe other women had done and had she done that God would have asked another." He is not reliant on any one person.
 
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