False Devotion to Mary

[Rosebud77]

I am not in any pain but it does get a bit tiring to be told over and over again how stupid one is. That tends to turn some off and I really am not that stupid. Not to tut my own horn as some love doing, I taught CCD for 20 years, First of all my parish priest, (whom I taught for) kept us on the “straight and narrow” during the unsettling years after Vat. II, joined Catholics United for the Faith and the Blue Army then too. I belonged to a group that brought many holy speakers, mostly priests like Fr, Hardon, to our town for retreats.Took instructions probables over 25 times with prospective converts including both my husbands, (RIP). taught by Priests, before RCIA. Have done RCIA several times as a sponsor. talked to many, many very Holy priests, Fr. William Most, Fr. John Hardon SJ., Fr. John Scott SJ as well as my own Holy Priest Uncle. and was NEVER Put down by a priest so blatantly. I may have never had the formal education that some were privileged to have but like I said I am NOT stupid. I have had years of “On the job” training. Humility goes both ways, God Bless, Memaw

OK. Maybe I read it all differently as I did not see any accusation of stupidity and I have a serious academic record too.

I am so relieved at some of what has been said though.

And I cannot see what you are so offended by and am sorry that you are hurting.

 

[Rosebud77]

What I do find off-putting are posters who not only recommend Marian devotion in general, but insist that everyone “at least try out” a particular form of it, and extrapolate that “this devotion has helped me, so that means everyone else should also join in.” And some devotees seem to have a quasi-Gnostic approach to their chosen devotion, that it somehow offers an “easier path to God” and that those who follow it are in possession of information that makes them superior to those who don’t.

I’ve also noticed that some Fatima devotees focus on berating the Church for either “lying about the Third Secret” or “refusing to consecrate Russia the way Mary wanted” and again, pride themselves on having super special knowledge that the average “pew-sitting Cultural Catholic” doesn’t have.

I personally find the richness and diversity of the devotional life of Church to be fascinating, and I find it sad that some just focus on a particular devotion to the exclusion of all else.

It is that exaggerated "odour of sanctity " and superior air that totally repels me.

The longer I live , and am heading for 80 at an increasing rate, the less I know and the more and deeper humility before Jesus I have

I have been treated like… dirt… here by a couple or three and today have learned that I did no wrong and am healing fast

For me it is always and only Jesus. Has been all my life then I came here!

The Co -Mediatrix stuff… back to paganism .

Matters no tto me what others choose to do but carping at someone who thinks differently is getting close to fanaticism and cult,

 

[Techno2000]

And some devotees seem to have a quasi-Gnostic approach to their chosen devotion, that it somehow offers an** “easier path to God”** and that those who follow it are in possession of information that makes them superior to those who don’t.

Yes, that’s the whole point, Mother Mary is the easiest and fastest way to God she’s the Mother of the Catholic Church… think about it.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

It is that exaggerated "odour of sanctity " and superior air that totally repels me.

I agree, this “we know better than you how to be a Good Catholic” attitude is what gets to me. I’d feel the same way if someone promoted the Divine Mercy devotion in the same “this is the easiest way to get Mercy from God” way.

Yes, that’s the whole point, Mother Mary is the easiest and fastest way to God she’s the Mother of the Catholic Church… think about it.

This may be true for you and maybe even most Catholics, but as Don Ruggerio has stated, there are also many other ways to God within the Church.

And it is one thing to promote a devotion, I don’t have an issue with that. My issue is when people cross the line into prosletyzing.

 

[Rosebud77]

Yes, that’s the whole point, Mother Mary is the easiest and fastest way to God she’s the Mother of the Catholic Church… think about it.

Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. He said so.

 

[Rosebud77]

I agree, this “we know better than you how to be a Good Catholic” attitude is what gets to me. I’d feel the same way if someone promoted the Divine Mercy devotion in the same “this is the easiest way to get Mercy from God” way.

This may be true for you and maybe even most Catholics, but as Don Ruggerio has stated, there are also many other ways to God within the Church.

And it is one thing to promote a devotion, I don’t have an issue with that. My issue is when people cross the line into prosletyzing.

I honestly never thought of them seeing it as fast and easy before… Terrible idea.

 

[Techno2000]

I agree, this “we know better than you how to be a Good Catholic” attitude is what gets to me. I’d feel the same way if someone promoted the Divine Mercy devotion in the same “this is the easiest way to get Mercy from God” way.

.

The Mystical City of God: Life of the Virgin Mother of God, manifested to Sister Mary of Jesus of Agreda:

Excerpt :

The dragon in agonizing efforts to escape,
said : O Woman, give me leave to hurl myself into hell,
for I cannot bear thy presence, nor will I ever venture to
come before Thee as long as Thou livest upon this world.
Thou hast conquered, O Woman, Thou hast conquered,
and I acknowledge thy power in Him who has made
Thee his Mother. Omnipotent God, chastise us Thyself,
since we cannot resist Thee

but do not send thy punishments
through a Woman of a nature so inferior to ours.
Her charity consumes us, her humility crushes us, and
She is in all things a living manifestation of thy mercy
for men. This is a torment surpassing many others.
Assist me, ye demons! But alas, what can our united
efforts avail against this Woman, since all our power
cannot ever deliver us from her presence until She her
self casts us forth? O foolish children of Adam, who
follow me, forsaking life for the sake of death, truth or
falsehood? What absurdity and insanity
is yours, (so in despair I must confess), since you have in your midst
and belonging to your own nature the incarnate Word
and this Woman ? Greater is your ingratitude than mine
and this Woman forces me to confess the truths, which
I abhor with all my heart. Cursed be my resolve to
persecute this Daughter of Adam, who so torments and
crushes me!

continue- themostholyrosary.com/mystical-city.htm

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Genesis 3:15

Douay-Rheims Bible

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I suspect the poster in question doesn’t understand the proper Catholic usage of the word 'adoration". Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestants of a more traditional bent would, I think, use “adoration” as Catholics do…and agree that adoration is for God alone.
Growing up as a low church Evangelical, I don’t remember using the word “adoration” in a religious sense at all. We spoke of praising God and worshiping God. Adoration was more of a secular term. “I adore that outfit! I adore that show! Isn’t that baby adorable!” It was during my journey to Catholicism that I came to understand the older, religious use of the term as the worship we owe to God alone.

Interestingly, there are older English texts that speak of the “worship” of Mary and the saints. This is most scandalous to contemporary Evangelicals who use the word “worship” in the same sense that we use the word “adoration”. Of course, as a Canadian, I understand that the word “worship” has had various connotations over the centuries. We still, after all, address our mayors as “Your Worship”. The evolving use of the word “worship” became obvious when I attended a Baptist church some years ago at which the local mayor was in attendance. The pastor jokingly commented “we’ll refrain from addressing you as “your worship” here”.

Yes. While I understand quite well (as do the majority of people here) that not everybody in the world is Catholic, and that not everybody has the richness of faith and the richness of the words of many Catholic saints, scholars, authors, theologians etc., I do think that Catholics as a whole are making a mistake, a very well-intentioned mistake but a mistake nonetheless, in being so ‘accommodating’ as to allow the narrowed and thus incorrect definitions of words which have been redefined by non-Catholics, such as worship, adoration, etc. to become the de facto ‘only correct way to express oneself’.

So we have generations of people now who, unlike those of my parent’s (and even my) generation, cannot pick up De Montfort, Liguori, et al (not to mention things like the Divine Comedy) and perfectly understood the distinction between the word adoration used for God and used for saints.

Really, as my 87 year old mother notes, this world is completely topsy turvy. Things which were white for nearly 2000 years are now black, or worse, ‘shades of gray’, virtues are now a vice and vices virtue or 'can’t be helped and therefore no longer wrong, and the people who cannot be tolerated are those who are perfectly obedient to authentic Church teachings, yea, even to today, but who venture to ask, "but why is it wrong to say what has always been truth? When one makes clear what that truth is, such as by saying that one adores Mary in the sense that adoration had always been defined? Why cannot we, in a spirit of tolerance and inclusivity, be helping our ‘separated brethren’ to broaden their understanding, which will lead them to a deeper, fuller, and richer understanding of God?

 

[Techno2000]

Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. He said so.

True, and the path Jesus would like everyone to take is to know and love his mother also.

 

[Techno2000]

Yes. While I understand quite well (as do the majority of people here) that not everybody in the world is Catholic, and that not everybody has the richness of faith and the richness of the words of many Catholic saints, scholars, authors, theologians etc., I do think that Catholics as a whole are making a mistake, a very well-intentioned mistake but a mistake nonetheless, in being so ‘accommodating’ as to allow the narrowed and thus incorrect definitions of words which have been redefined by non-Catholics, such as worship, adoration, etc. to become the de facto ‘only correct way to express oneself’.

So we have generations of people now who, unlike those of my parent’s (and even my) generation, cannot pick up De Montfort, Liguori, et al** (not to mention things like the Divine Comedy) **and perfectly understood the distinction between the word adoration used for God and used for saints.

Really, as my 87 year old mother notes, this world is completely topsy turvy. Things which were white for nearly 2000 years are now black, or worse, ‘shades of gray’, virtues are now a vice and vices virtue or 'can’t be helped and therefore no longer wrong, and the people who cannot be tolerated are those who are perfectly obedient to authentic Church teachings, yea, even to today, but who venture to ask, "but why is it wrong to say what has always been truth? When one makes clear what that truth is, such as by saying that one adores Mary in the sense that adoration had always been defined? Why cannot we, in a spirit of tolerance and inclusivity, be helping our ‘separated brethren’ to broaden their understanding, which will lead them to a deeper, fuller, and richer understanding of God?

 

[friardchips]

It is that exaggerated "odour of sanctity " and superior air that totally repels me.

No exaggeration. It ought to make you rejoice.

Your words are unbecoming of a Catholic.

The longer I live , and am heading for 80 at an increasing rate, the less I know and the more and deeper humility before Jesus I have

I have been treated like… dirt… here by a couple or three and today have learned that I did no wrong and am healing fast

You are surprised when people defend their faith.

For me it is always and only Jesus. Has been all my life then I came here!

Please stop using Jesus against Mary. I doubt He likes it any more than we don’t.

The Co -Mediatrix stuff… back to paganism .

Matters no tto me what others choose to do but carping at someone who thinks differently is getting close to fanaticism and cult,

To accuse Marian devotees of paganism and non-Catholic cult practice is nothing short of anti-Catholicism.

From the Catechism which guards the deposit of the Catholic faith:

*‘969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512’
*

With a Capital M.

 

[Memaw]

Yes. While I understand quite well (as do the majority of people here) that not everybody in the world is Catholic, and that not everybody has the richness of faith and the richness of the words of many Catholic saints, scholars, authors, theologians etc., I do think that Catholics as a whole are making a mistake, a very well-intentioned mistake but a mistake nonetheless, in being so ‘accommodating’ as to allow the narrowed and thus incorrect definitions of words which have been redefined by non-Catholics, such as worship, adoration, etc. to become the de facto ‘only correct way to express oneself’.

So we have generations of people now who, unlike those of my parent’s (and even my) generation, cannot pick up De Montfort, Liguori, et al (not to mention things like the Divine Comedy) and perfectly understood the distinction between the word adoration used for God and used for saints.

Really, as my 87 year old mother notes, this world is completely topsy turvy. Things which were white for nearly 2000 years are now black, or worse, ‘shades of gray’, virtues are now a vice and vices virtue or 'can’t be helped and therefore no longer wrong, and the people who cannot be tolerated are those who are perfectly obedient to authentic Church teachings, yea, even to today, but who venture to ask, "but why is it wrong to say what has always been truth? When one makes clear what that truth is, such as by saying that one adores Mary in the sense that adoration had always been defined? Why cannot we, in a spirit of tolerance and inclusivity, be helping our ‘separated brethren’ to broaden their understanding, which will lead them to a deeper, fuller, and richer understanding of God?

Thank you very Much!!! I agree with you and your 87 year old Mother, I’m not far behind her,(80). Over the years I have talked to so many protestants and it is VERY difficult to get them to understand we do NOT worship Mary, the saints or statues of anyone. We do not put them ahead of Jesus, They have been taught to think so. One man even told me he went to the Catholic Mass for 10 years with his wife and they never ONCE mentioned the name of Jesus. NO way could I convince him otherwise. Seems to me we are far more “tolerant” with our “separated brethren”, than they are of us. Also talking about Fatima or Lourdes or Guadalupe comes easy for me because I believe if God sends His Mother to us, and the Church finds it “Worthy of Belief” it must be important. While it is not mandatory and some say “the Church doesn’t say we HAVE to believe it”, which is true, I still consider it as important as Sacred Heart Devotion and Divine Mercy. It would almost take a lifetime to read all that the Popes have said and done regarding Fatima. Including this 100 th Anniversary. Devotion to Our Blessed Mother should never be a stumbling block for Catholics. She STILL tells us to "Do as HE tells you, God Bless, Memaw

 

[friardchips]

Interesting thread. Just one question. Now how in the world could this sweet young Jewish woman of Nazareth in Galilee be the subject of so many nasty threads of late on a Catholic website?..

**“Have no fear of loving the Blessed Virgin too much, you will never love her enough, and Jesus will be pleased since the Blessed Virgin is His Mother.”

~St. Therese of Lisieux in a letter to her cousin Marie Guérin on May 30, 1889~**

Peace, Mark

On a more faithful and fruitful note, I love this post.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Honestly until any of you, Don Ruggero included, can refute the quotes I have provided from numerous Saints, which confirm Devotion to Mary, then it is all for nothing.

Let me also say this, I have never said, nor have I seen in this or the other 2 threads anyone saying that “you must have devotion to Mary” or “Mary is the only way” or anything of the sort. In my zeal and love for the Blessed Mother have I misused words? Yes. A piece of my own conversion story is that I had an extremely hard time even praying to the Blessed Mother, such was my own will set against her and for only Jesus up until about 3 years ago (I converted about 10 years ago).

Was the use of the phrase “infinitely harder” probably a poor choice, probably. I guess you will have to excuse and understand where I am coming from, just an uneducated convert not up to par with you intellectuals. Wow, I am certainly glad up until now in my journey I haven’t run into the academic and mighty ones of the Church, probably would have scared me straight out of Catholicism.

Reminds me of the man screaming “Look, can’t you see my humility!”

Let me remind you that all this started because I suggested devotion to Mary to someone and it was all of you that started attacking those of us who try to spread the devotion. I don’t care what has been said in other threads by other people! We might as well bring up heresies from the 4th century, none of which pertain to this thread.

Finally here is another quote from St. Louis de Montfort, the author of the True Devotion to Mary.

“…Not that Our Lady is more than Christ, nor even equal to Him. To say that would be the rankest heresy…”

Peace be with you

 

[Memaw]

Honestly until any of you, Don Ruggero included, can refute the quotes I have provided from numerous Saints, which confirm Devotion to Mary, then it is all for nothing.

Let me also say this, I have never said, nor have I seen in this or the other 2 threads anyone saying that “you must have devotion to Mary” or “Mary is the only way” or anything of the sort. In my zeal and love for the Blessed Mother have I misused words? Yes. A piece of my own conversion story is that I had an extremely hard time even praying to the Blessed Mother, such was my own will set against her and for only Jesus up until about 3 years ago (I converted about 10 years ago).

Was the use of the phrase “infinitely harder” probably a poor choice, probably. I guess you will have to excuse and understand where I am coming from, just an uneducated convert not up to par with you intellectuals. Wow, I am certainly glad up until now in my journey I haven’t run into the academic and mighty ones of the Church, probably would have scared me straight out of Catholicism.

Reminds me of the man screaming “Look, can’t you see my humility!”

Let me remind you that all this started because I suggested devotion to Mary to someone and it was all of you that started attacking those of us who try to spread the devotion. I don’t care what has been said in other threads by other people! We might as well bring up heresies from the 4th century, none of which pertain to this thread.

Finally here is another quote from St. Louis de Montfort, the author of the True Devotion to Mary.

“…Not that Our Lady is more than Christ, nor even equal to Him. To say that would be the rankest heresy…”

Peace be with you

AMEN and thank you, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Rosebud77]

Your words are unbecoming of a Catholic.

Because you think differently?

And you are who?

 

[Rosebud77]

:

 

[Rosebud77]

If I thought for one moment that the imbalance seen here was 100% Catholic? I would walk out of the door for good. I will correct that. I would never have come in at the door in the first place.

I took advice, researched, talked and learned that devotion to Mary is not essential or altogether desirable let alone obligatory. Having Jesus, I have ALL . Period .

All I need, all I desire. All that matters. No room in my heart for any but Him; all my Prayer, all my breathing, all my being , for Jesus.

Not for any human … Simply JESUS

 

[Techno2000]

Honestly until any of you, Don Ruggero included, can refute the quotes I have provided from numerous Saints, which confirm Devotion to Mary, then it is all for nothing.

Let me also say this, I have never said, nor have I seen in this or the other 2 threads anyone saying that “you must have devotion to Mary” or “Mary is the only way” or anything of the sort. In my zeal and love for the Blessed Mother have I misused words? Yes. A piece of my own conversion story is that I had an extremely hard time even praying to the Blessed Mother, such was my own will set against her and for only Jesus up until about 3 years ago (I converted about 10 years ago).

Was the use of the phrase “infinitely harder” probably a poor choice, probably. I guess you will have to excuse and understand where I am coming from, just an uneducated convert not up to par with you intellectuals. Wow, I am certainly glad up until now in my journey I haven’t run into the academic and mighty ones of the Church, probably would have scared me straight out of Catholicism.

Reminds me of the man screaming “Look, can’t you see my humility!”

Let me remind you that all this started because I suggested devotion to Mary to someone and it was all of you that started attacking those of us who try to spread the devotion. I don’t care what has been said in other threads by other people! We might as well bring up heresies from the 4th century, none of which pertain to this thread.

Finally here is another quote from St. Louis de Montfort, the author of the True Devotion to Mary.

“…Not that Our Lady is more than Christ, nor even equal to Him. To say that would be the rankest heresy…”

Peace be with you

It’s people like Jack Chick that cause Catholics to be so afraid of Mary devotions.

 

[Memaw]

It’s people like Jack Chick that cause Catholics to be so afraid of Mary devotions.

That’s to bad because they don’t know what they are missing. A human heart can love in so many ways its miraculous. My Mom has been dead for over 50 years, I love her still. I have two babies in Heaven and 2 husbands, I love dearly. A very dear friend and neighbor of over 35 years died 6 months ago. I miss her every day. We did so much together. There is no limit, as far as I can see to our capacity to love others. Why would anyone want to refuse to love and be loved by Our Blessed Mother, is beyond me. Jesus loves Her AND ALL of us. God Bless, Memaw