N
Not_Sure_1
Guest
The religion of peace strikes again!
- Status
L
Lokabrenna
Guest
I for one am happy that justice has been served and the perpetrators of such a heinous crime are going to rot in a jail cell. This whole case has just sickened me.
S
SpeakInSilence
Guest
Why do so many on this site insist on defending Islam? About how educated Muslims would never kill, and never do anything like this. Honor killing is a result of a corrupt and immoral religion. Islam treats women like PROPERTY, and clearly shows this in the Quran and the earliest commentaries of the Quran, examples:
Qur’an (65:4)“Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.”
**Men can have relations with women who have not hit puberty **
Qur’an (4:11) – “The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females”.
Women equal half of a man
Qur’an (5:6) - “And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it” Women are dirty
Quran (4:34) “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”
Men can beat, and rape women to get them to obey.
And here is one I find very interesting, because this verse could almost be used to JUSTIFY an honor killing. Because of lewdness a man is allowed to confine the girl until death.
Qur’an (4:15) As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
With that in mind and the verses I used earlier I’m not sure why honor killings shouldn’t be administered into their system. It only seems right.
You know what makes me the laugh the most though? Not the fact that people feel the need to defend this “religion of peace”, but base their whole idea on this religions from the adherents of the west; however if you base on these seventeen countries, then islam paints a much different picture: Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, The Palestinian Authority, Lebanon, Syria, Guinea, Morocco, Somalia…
Wake up and smell the lies
Qur’an (65:4)“Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.”
**Men can have relations with women who have not hit puberty **
Qur’an (4:11) – “The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females”.
Women equal half of a man
Qur’an (5:6) - “And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it” Women are dirty
Quran (4:34) “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”
Men can beat, and rape women to get them to obey.
And here is one I find very interesting, because this verse could almost be used to JUSTIFY an honor killing. Because of lewdness a man is allowed to confine the girl until death.
Qur’an (4:15) As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
With that in mind and the verses I used earlier I’m not sure why honor killings shouldn’t be administered into their system. It only seems right.
You know what makes me the laugh the most though? Not the fact that people feel the need to defend this “religion of peace”, but base their whole idea on this religions from the adherents of the west; however if you base on these seventeen countries, then islam paints a much different picture: Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, The Palestinian Authority, Lebanon, Syria, Guinea, Morocco, Somalia…
Wake up and smell the lies
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Neither the prosecution nor the defense in this case brought up Islam as cause or justification. This was done by ignorant people following tribal “customs,” and were rightly punished for it.
Believe it or not, one can defend Christianity inspite of the number of crimes committed by Christians.
K
Kouyate42
Guest
I’m female, and I have little problem with Islam. Women are HONORED in Islam, and are given appropriate rights of education, property ownership, human rights, the right to work and earn their own living and other rights which were not granted in the West until recently.
Women in Islam are viewed as precious jewels worthy of honor, respect and love. Muhammad (SAW) himself treated his wives with kindness, and said to his sahabah (companions) ‘the best of you is best to your wives’. There are many stories of him giving A’isha and his wives gifts, taking them to shows and entertainments, defending them from malice etc.
There is also a hadith in which Muhammad (SAW) was asked ‘‘who after Allah should I respect and honor?’’. His reply was ‘your mother’. He was then asked ‘‘and who should be after that’’ and he replied again ‘your mother, and then your father’’.
I can likely cite more examples of the respect accorded to Muslim women.
J
Jesusismyfriend
Guest
I think it’s terrible how far they would go to stop their daughters from living these kind of lifestyles. They would have a right to be concerned, but does a truly concerned parent commit murder against their own children? My dad freaked out in high school about my dating a guy. He called me a slut. And my father and mother were both very upset when I dated a guy at age 24. These guys were not the kind of guys God would want me to date, so they were right to be upset. But I might have learned more and been less likely to date them if my parents had taken me aside and said, “We’re worried about you. These boiys are not living pure Christian lifestyles and we feel you shouldn’t see them anymore.” That would have been better than the screaming and swearing and accusations. Of course, what happened to these girls was a million times worse than what I experienced. I was surprised when I heard about this, because I thought I was the only one with “over-protective” parents. Thanks for posting this. It made me realize I was quite fortunate to not have gone through worse.
L
Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
Does the bishop release a statement of condemnation every time a Catholic man murders his wife or teen-aged child? Do we expect him to?
Third time: soft bigotry of low expectations.
Luna
L
LemonAndLime
Guest
S
SpeakInSilence
Guest
I would argue that when Christians commit crimes it contrary to Christianity, but when Muslims commit crimes like these it’s only following the tenets of Islam.
S
SpeakInSilence
Guest
I’m sorry, is there an epidemic in Catholic countries where honor killings are involved?
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Theft, murder, bribery, forgery, e.g. are sanctioned by the Koran? No.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
There are Catholic countries where a man is found to have killed his wife and children, and no one asks the bishop to issue a statement of condemnation. Women have drowned their children and murdered them otherwise as well, and the bishops don’t feel obligated to say anything, leaving justice to the authorities.
S
SpeakInSilence
Guest
Yes, let me cite Hadith for you to think about.
Bukhari (62:81) - "The Prophet said: “‘The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women’s) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).’”
Women are for men’s pleasure
Bukhari (62:58)- “A woman came to Allah’s Apostle and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I have come to you to present myself to you (for marriage).” Allah’s Apostle glanced at her. He looked at her carefully and fixed his glance on her and then lowered his head. When the lady saw that he did not say anything, she sat down. A man from his companions got up and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! If you are not in need of her, then marry her to me.” The Prophet said, “Have you got anything to offer.” The man said, 'No, by Allah, O Allah’s Apostle!” The Prophet said (to him), “Go to your family and try to find something.” So the man went and returned, saying, “No, by Allah, O Allah’s Apostle! I have not found anything.” The Prophet said, “Go again and look for something, even if it were an iron ring.” He went and returned, saying, “No, by Allah, O Allah’s Apostle! I could not find even an iron ring, but this is my Izar (waist sheet).’ He had no Rida (upper garment). He added, “I give half of it to her.” Allah’s Apostle said “What will she do with your Izar? If you wear it, she will have nothing over herself thereof (will be naked); and if she wears it, then you will have nothing over yourself thereof ’ So the man sat for a long period and then got up (to leave). When Allah’s Apostle saw him leaving, he ordered that he e called back. When he came, the Prophet asked (him), “How much of the Qur’an do you know (by heart)?” The man replied, I know such Sura and such Sura and such Sura,” naming the suras. The Prophet said, “Can you recite it by heart?” He said, 'Yes.” The Prophet said, “Go I let you marry her for what you know of the Quran (as her Mahr).”
Women can be traded
Muslim (4:1039) - “A’isha said [to Muhammad]: ‘You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses’”
Words from Muhammads favorite wife
Abu Dawud (2:704) - “…the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ***, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone’s throw.”
Yep…
Ishaq 593 - “As for Ali, he said, ‘Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.’” Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad’s presence without a word of rebuke from him.
Ishaq 593 - “From the captives of Hunayn, Allah’s Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another.”
Buy one slave girl, get two free?
Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - “Treat women well,** for they are [like] domestic animals** with you and do not possess anything for themselves.”
From Muhammad’s Farewell speech
J
jakasaki
Guest
Not these 4 women. They sure as heck were not honored by their father, mother & brother.
Surely you jest with the above quote. Where were the “human rights” of these 4 pour souls…??
Do the women in the Middle east have the right to any education and go to any school they want.
Do the women in the Middle East have the right own their own house & property without a husband.
And your last few words about “rights which were not granted in the West until recently” … this is something I always here from muslims.
These 4 women were not viewed as precious jewels worthy of honor. They were killed by 3 of their family members.
Yeah right.
What’s with the SAW part. Please don’t explain it to because I already know what it means. Only muslims put the SAW & PBUH next to their self proclaimed prophet.
Have you read the hadith where he punched Aisha in the chest & cause her “much pain”.
… snip
S
SpeakInSilence
Guest
Wrong
Lying
Qur’an (3:28) “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.”
You can lie to “guard yourself”.
Qur’an (9:3)“And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.”
The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.
Qur’an (2:225) - “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts” This is in context to marriage, spouses can lie for the "greater good."
Murder/Violence
Quran (2:191-193) - “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”
In context to this verse this is NOT a defensive war. Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries; therefore not under attack by others. This promotes offensive war, and murder of nonbelievers.
Quran (2:216) - “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”
Go out and kill!
Quran (4:74) - “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”
Unlike Christian Martyrs, Islamic Martyrs kill for Allah.
Quran (4:104) - “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…” ** Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?**
Theft
Bukhari (44:668) - “We were in the company of the Prophet at Dhul-Hulaifa. The people felt hungry and captured some camels and sheep (as booty)…” Muhammad said that Allah would always provide sustenance for those who believe in him. Stealing from non-Muslims was a legitimate means of fulfilling Allah’s promise.
thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-self-defense.htm
J
jakasaki
Guest
There was a case a few years back in Canada, where these 2 highly educated muslims, a man & a wife, who ran a successful TV station on trying to educate non-muslims about the islamic religion & culture.
A point came where his wife no longer wanted to be married to him.
Let’s see… did he grant her the divorce… hmmm… NOPE…
He killed her by punishment of “beheading her”.
So this case was not about a “tribal” uneducated couple, but it was about him restoring his honor.
A point came where his wife no longer wanted to be married to him.
Let’s see… did he grant her the divorce… hmmm… NOPE…
He killed her by punishment of “beheading her”.
So this case was not about a “tribal” uneducated couple, but it was about him restoring his honor.
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
How about Catholic or other Christian women and children murdered by husbands. Were they honored the way the Bible would have them honored?
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
This is SOP among Muslims? If not, why are you trying to generalize about an entire religious faith from the crimes of a few? I am sure that there are Catholics who dishonor their faith as well, or do you think that we are all perfect?
K
Kouyate42
Guest
Just because the rights of three particular women were denied does not reflect on all of Islam.
You might find the educational record of the Middle East to be a lot better than you perhaps think. Some of the oldest universities in the world are in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, including the world’s oldest WOMEN’S university which is in Kabul.
Also, in Saudi Arabia in particular, around half of university graduates are female. The workforce in SA is seeing a yearly increase in female workers who have CHOSEN to work.
It’s a wonderful thing called the truth.
Just because a Muslim does something doesn’t necessarily mean the actual actions are condoned by Islam and the Qur’an.
Have you read the hadith where Aisha got lost, only for a member of the Prophet’s group to return, put her on his camel and ride back to the group. The enemies of the Muslim group made lies against A’isha and made her out to be unchaste. The Prophet (saw) saw fit to both protect A’isha from the lies made against her but called the accusers to produce evidence, and then punished them as they could not do so.
BTW, I’m not Muslim. But I do have a great deal of love and admiration for the Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
J
jakasaki
Guest
Do we still practice barbaric acts of beheading, stoning people to death, hanging in public for being gay as it’s practiced under islam.
This article is about “honor murders” of 4 musilm females, by their family members.
- Status