Family member pregnant with in vitro baby... is it moral to celebrate?

[AClaire11]

I can think of a number of reasons.

• The Catholic position on IVF is not always known;
• Many Catholics don’t agree with the Catholic position;
• People very often take the view that their decision on such a matter is supreme (and not properly subject to any form of detraction).

If you view it likely that your remarks, charitably offered, will do more good than harm, then it is good to make them.

This is true. There are many cafeteria Catholics who see nothing wrong with IVF. My FIL, a member of his parish council, encouraged us to consider it. I doubt the other Catholics in my family are against it, either.

 

[1990Domer]

I wanted to comment for those who think that the adoption process is always difficult, timely or mpossible, it’s not. Many long time posters here know we adopted some of our children as infants through private licensed agencies…My BF has enlarged her family too, through state adoption.

Each journey to bring them home was different–some very streamlined and some not.I will be happy to share my positive experiences and what to expect so you can pm me.there are many books on this too.

Please do not believe all the horror stories on the internet.when parents welcome home a baby, many times families do not put this on the internet–and only the bad stories show up… so it is very unbalanced.
I hope to encourage others in this beautiful way to have a family. I understand this is not for everyone, but if you are being called to adopt, don’t be discouaged. It does take faith and fortitude, and it is worth it.

I want to mention that the adoption stories I heard were from asking actual couples–both before and after fertility treatments. I would say there was a 50:50 mix of opinions. Having a foot in the special needs community, many of those I spoke with adopted children from Asia or Russia. They were ill-prepared for the special needs of the a child that spent time in an orphanage. Sadly, one father told me it was the worst mistake of his life. I still remember the store I was in when he said it.

I believe we are now beyond the age to adopt. We are sad because my son always wanted a sibling, but it wasn’t in God’s plan.

 

[slh3016]

I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking you .

Well, if you are asking, you are implying that you will truly consider all the answers given. You are Catholic and I am assuming that your cousin is not. Do you go around chastizing everyone in your life that is not Catholic and does not hold to Catholic teaching on every issue?

To answer the second question, it’s about not being scandalous, which would be beneficial for everyone. Now, whether or not it would be scandolous for me to just keep my mouth shut instead of speaking up is a different story.

The CCC defines scandal as:

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

IOW, causing scandal means that, by example, you are encouraging or leading another to commit a sin, particularly if you are in a position of authority over them. In this case, the sin has already been done and you are not in a position of authority over your cousin or other family members. Your keeping mum about what YOU believe as a Catholic really isn’t creating a scandal for anyone. You can delicately discuss the issue with your own children and explain Church teaching, and as the occasion arises, you can casually and cautiously explain Church teaching to the other Catholics in your family. If they aren’t Catholic and don’t ascribe to Catholic beliefs or doctrine, it’s all moot point because most Protestants have no moral issue with IVF or donor sperm and eggs.

What I would really consider and pray about is the true motives of your heart. Often I find that when I want to be quick to condemn others for their sins or point out what they* should have done* differently, it is my own ego that is the motivation and not sincerity. More often than not, I just want to prove why I am right and they were wrong. The main tense in all of this, too, is the past tense nature of the sin or wrongdoing. If your cousin had made it known to you her intentions PRIOR to going through with the procedure, then yes, you could have had a decent shot at explaining the Catholic position. However, in this case, that was not an option and there is no point in finger wagging about it now. Your opinion wasn’t asked and the deed has been done. Pray for her and the baby and move on with a smile on your face and love in your heart for this precious gift God chose to create in spite of the situation

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I think you have to look at what is motivating you. I have seen people challenging others on their sins and it just seems like they are doing it for their own ego. Be honest with yourself.

 

[Rosebud77]

Rosebud, I know of countries that have restricted foreign adoption by those in the U.S. Also, the hoops that the agencies make you jump through (living in said country for some period of time) is expensive with no guarantee the adoption will be successful.

Thank you, I asked as I see quite a few adopted overseas babies here. Met a sweet little Russian girl and many from Vietnamese and African countries.

thejournal.ie/adoption-ireland-2-1824291-Jan2015/

independent.ie/irish-news/heartache-for-wouldbe-parents-as-adoption-wait-list-grows-longer-29906625.html

 

[mommy_k]

I want to mention that the adoption stories I heard were from asking actual couples–both before and after fertility treatments. I would say there was a 50:50 mix of opinions. Having a foot in the special needs community, many of those I spoke with adopted children from Asia or Russia. They were ill-prepared for the special needs of the a child that spent time in an orphanage. Sadly, one father told me it was the worst mistake of his life. I still remember the store I was in when he said it.

I believe we are now beyond the age to adopt. We are sad because my son always wanted a sibling, but it wasn’t in God’s plan.

I am not involved in the special needs community, but have been involved in the adoption community, and have spoke to many many very happy and well djusted familiess and children that have been been blessed by adoption.

First question the agency or psychologist would ask, can you deal with a special needs child…then, age of child…and so on.

Second question, if your child becomes sick or has adjustment or attachment issues, will you treat this child any different then a bio child.

Then what is your motivation to adopt. Stating your child wants a sibling is not valid. You have akready created unequalness regarding your bio child and the soon to be adopted one. You have placed your bio child’s desire as the motivation.
The question I would have is what happens if your son does not like the new baby or tires of him or her…and decides he does not want a sibling anymore.

Also, the stigma of children having issues when in an orphanage is not correct in entirety.
The agencies fully disclose any issues that may be present for children who are in an orphanage after a certain age… it depends on the orphanage as well. To not do this risks thier licensure.

If the father you know adopted his child as an infant or toddler before this developmental age, or if the enviornment in the orphanage was good, what he is experiencing may be a genetic problem, not a result of being in an orphanage.

Not all children who were placed in orphanages have problems. Not all children placed for adoption stay in orphanages either. They stay with foster families until adopted inmany countries, including the us…infants, babies, toddlers and older children.

I am very sorry that this is the mindset that people encourage as well–that all waiting babies and toddlers are somehow flawed,and that you will end up with huge problems.

Not true at all.

And then you wonder why some couples go the ivf route, after hearing this propaganda.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I am not involved in the special needs community, but have been involved in the adoption community, and have spoke to many many very happy and well djusted familiess and children that have been been blessed by adoption.

First question the agency or psychologist would ask, can you deal with a special needs child…then, age of child…and so on.

Second question, if your child becomes sick or has adjustment or attachment issues, will you treat this child any different then a bio child.

Then what is your motivation to adopt. Stating your child wants a sibling is not valid. You have akready created unequalness regarding your bio child and the soon to be adopted one. You have placed your bio child’s desire as the motivation.
The question I would have is what happens if your son does not like the new baby or tires of him or her…and decides he does not want a sibling anymore.

Also, the stigma of children having issues when in an orphanage is not correct in entirety.
The agencies fully disclose any issues that may be present for children who are in an orphanage after a certain age… it depends on the orphanage as well. To not do this risks thier licensure.

If the father you know adopted his child as an infant or toddler before this developmental age, or if the enviornment in the orphanage was good, what he is experiencing may be a genetic problem, not a result of being in an orphanage.

Not all children who were placed in orphanages have problems. Not all children placed for adoption stay in orphanages either. They stay with foster families until adopted inmany countries, including the us…infants, babies, toddlers and older children.

I am very sorry that this is the mindset that people encourage as well–that all waiting babies and toddlers are somehow flawed,and that you will end up with huge problems.

Not true at all.

And then you wonder why some couples go the ivf route, after hearing this propaganda.

To dismiss the very real experiences of some adoptive families as “propaganda” is unfair to both the adoptive families and families who are considering adoption.

Are all adoption stories horror stories? Certainly not! However, it’s wrong to ignore the possibility altogether.

I personally know five families who have adopted kids. Their experiences vary wildly.

Family one: sibling group from an Eastern European country. Based on the fact that the three-year-old weighed 17 pounds at the time of adoption, I’m going out on a limb and saying that things were Not All As They Should Be at that orphanage*. The kids all had a variety of undisclosed attachment issues.

Family two: several different sibling groups from different countries. Mixed overall experience, ranging from the kids who settled in well, bonded with their family, and succeeded at life in general to the kid who was adopted at about 10 and had major, MAJOR issues–last I heard, he was in jail as a young twenty-something for trying to kill his adopted mom.

Family three: one kid adopted from the foster system in the US at 18 months. They knew prior to the adoption that he had a lot of physical and mental issues. Overall, as positive an experience as you could expect: he’ll never be able to function on his own or perform activities of daily living, but at least he can walk now, and he’s certainly well-bonded to his parents.

Family four: several kids adopted as infants via private adoption agencies in the US. Doing well in general, now preteens/early teenagers.

Family five: two kids adopted from a Romanian orphanage. One had been in a sort of foster placement before, and turned out fairly well. The other had virtually never left her crib until she was adopted at 3 years old. She was severely malnourished both physically and emotionally, which probably contributed to the host of mental issues she’s struggled with ever since. She’s in her 20s now. I am seriously concerned for how she’s going to survive once her parents are gone; it seems likely that she’ll end up on the streets, as she can’t hold down a job and doesn’t relate well to people.

These are the experiences of people actually in the trenches. It’s not “propaganda” to share them. Adoption can be a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful thing, but it also can bring with it a variety of potential problems that would-be adoptive parents should know about.

*When the adopting parents expressed concern to the orphanage staff over how malnourished the kids looked, one junior staff member probably lost her job by cheerfully explaining, “Oh, they don’t look so bad! We fed them up a lot before you came!”

 

[Rosebud77]

To dismiss the very real experiences of some adoptive families as “propaganda” is unfair to both the adoptive families and families who are considering adoption.

Are all adoption stories horror stories? Certainly not! However, it’s wrong to ignore the possibility altogether.

I personally know five families who have adopted kids. Their experiences vary wildly.

Family one: sibling group from an Eastern European country. Based on the fact that the three-year-old weighed 17 pounds at the time of adoption, I’m going out on a limb and saying that things were Not All As They Should Be at that orphanage*. The kids all had a variety of undisclosed attachment issues.

Family two: several different sibling groups from different countries. Mixed overall experience, ranging from the kids who settled in well, bonded with their family, and succeeded at life in general to the kid who was adopted at about 10 and had major, MAJOR issues–last I heard, he was in jail as a young twenty-something for trying to kill his adopted mom.

Family three: one kid adopted from the foster system in the US at 18 months. They knew prior to the adoption that he had a lot of physical and mental issues. Overall, as positive an experience as you could expect: he’ll never be able to function on his own or perform activities of daily living, but at least he can walk now, and he’s certainly well-bonded to his parents.

Family four: several kids adopted as infants via private adoption agencies in the US. Doing well in general, now preteens/early teenagers.

Family five: two kids adopted from a Romanian orphanage. One had been in a sort of foster placement before, and turned out fairly well. The other had virtually never left her crib until she was adopted at 3 years old. She was severely malnourished both physically and emotionally, which probably contributed to the host of mental issues she’s struggled with ever since. She’s in her 20s now. I am seriously concerned for how she’s going to survive once her parents are gone; it seems likely that she’ll end up on the streets, as she can’t hold down a job and doesn’t relate well to people.

These are the experiences of people actually in the trenches. It’s not “propaganda” to share them. Adoption can be a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful thing, but it also can bring with it a variety of potential problems that would-be adoptive parents should know about.

*When the adopting parents expressed concern to the orphanage staff over how malnourished the kids looked, one junior staff member probably lost her job by cheerfully explaining, “Oh, they don’t look so bad! We fed them up a lot before you came!”

A sad but balanced post; thank you. I was watching some of the Chernobyl films and the East European scene. The parents who adopt are heroes and heroines

 

[Listener]

Getting back to the original question, I think that if you don’t feel like congratulating this person, you shouldn’t congratulate her.

Aside from what the Church teaches, I have never liked the idea of in-vitro fertilization. I have also never liked the idea of a sperm donor. When these children find out the truth, they will probably spend half their life searching for their father. There is also the possibility that they will have numerous half brothers and sisters, and they could end up unknowingly marrying one of them.

If I saw the mother, I would certainly not tell her how I feel about this, but I would also not feel obliged to congratulate her.

Actually, I think congratulations are more in order for after the baby is born. If someone has just gotten pregnant, there is always the possibility that she will have a miscarriage.

 

[Norseman82]

My first choice would be to say something along the lines of “best wishes for the baby”, since the baby is an innocent party in this.

This hits home for me because my cousin’s daughter’s same-sex “partner” is pregnant via IVF. The kicker: both the daughter and the same-sex “partner” are Catholic school teachers!

 

[mommy_k]

To dismiss the very real experiences of some adoptive families as “propaganda” is unfair to both the adoptive families and families who are considering adoption.

Are all adoption stories horror stories? Certainly not! However, it’s wrong to ignore the possibility altogether.

I personally know five families who have adopted kids. Their experiences vary wildly.

Family one: sibling group from an Eastern European country. Based on the fact that the three-year-old weighed 17 pounds at the time of adoption, I’m going out on a limb and saying that things were Not All As They Should Be at that orphanage*. The kids all had a variety of undisclosed attachment issues.

Family two: several different sibling groups from different countries. Mixed overall experience, ranging from the kids who settled in well, bonded with their family, and succeeded at life in general to the kid who was adopted at about 10 and had major, MAJOR issues–last I heard, he was in jail as a young twenty-something for trying to kill his adopted mom.

Family three: one kid adopted from the foster system in the US at 18 months. They knew prior to the adoption that he had a lot of physical and mental issues. Overall, as positive an experience as you could expect: he’ll never be able to function on his own or perform activities of daily living, but at least he can walk now, and he’s certainly well-bonded to his parents.

Family four: several kids adopted as infants via private adoption agencies in the US. Doing well in general, now preteens/early teenagers.

Family five: two kids adopted from a Romanian orphanage. One had been in a sort of foster placement before, and turned out fairly well. The other had virtually never left her crib until she was adopted at 3 years old. She was severely malnourished both physically and emotionally, which probably contributed to the host of mental issues she’s struggled with ever since. She’s in her 20s now. I am seriously concerned for how she’s going to survive once her parents are gone; it seems likely that she’ll end up on the streets, as she can’t hold down a job and doesn’t relate well to people.

These are the experiences of people actually in the trenches. It’s not “propaganda” to share them. Adoption can be a wonderful, wonderful, beautiful thing, but it also can bring with it a variety of potential problems that would-be adoptive parents should know about.

*When the adopting parents expressed concern to the orphanage staff over how malnourished the kids looked, one junior staff member probably lost her job by cheerfully explaining, “Oh, they don’t look so bad! We fed them up a lot before you came!”

I am not dimiissing that some adoptions scenarios have pre-adoption risks. The propaganda I am referring to is that the minute adoption is offered as a choice to build a family every negative thought has been posted.it saddens me because this is a catholic forum.

I know many more than 5 or six families who were blessed by adoption. I have travelled abroad to many coubtries ,orphanages, homes and other places. I have been in trenches, and have seen it with my own eyes…i have adopted children, so these comments by others are heresay, mine are not.

I have dealt with many private agencies and orofessionals, and yes, problems do exist, however for every 5 families that are having difficulti there hundreds that are not. People who have well adjusted families do not vent on blogs or make headlines nor are they involved with psychologists or social workers after the post placement… There are many many families that are in your community that have adopted childten, and you would never know, they don’t need to discuss that thier well adjusted successful kids are adopted with acquaintances and strangers…

To zero in that a family that has probems, or a young person that has problems, just because they were touched by adoption is wrong, Dysfunctional familiess rhat were not blessed by adopt ion exist , and moreso, and unless the posters are a trained psychologists in attachment parenting, they cannot make this call.

I am sure that thier are lax agencies. That is why you do homework.

There are many different adoption paths, some involve immediate infant placement. Ophanages do not enter the picture
Some are streamlined…some are not. Agencies do not hand out babies like jellybeans so it is a process nonetheless. Soneone stated it’s like jumping through hoops, but guess what, I would jump through hoops for all of my children if need be.

So if anyone should be insulted, it should be me.

 

[Rosebud77]

My first choice would be to say something along the lines of “best wishes for the baby”, since the baby is an innocent party in this.

This hits home for me because my cousin’s daughter’s same-sex “partner” is pregnant via IVF. The kicker: both the daughter and the same-sex “partner” are Catholic school teachers![/QUOTE]

SIGH! Almost unbelieveable and that it is all done so openly.**