Family size as "evidence" of ABC use

[wakawaka]

Thank you very much I appreciate you explaining it. I am not sure who I would ask this next question to but if you are not Catholic and you have/use one of these ABC do you have to stop or have it removed? What if there are medical conditions that are requiring it and its not used to actually prevent pregnancy but for the medical condition? If a person is already infertile there is nothing to prevent.

I see this is a sensitive subject and I do not intend to start any debate. I simply don’t know about Catholic beliefs and I am trying to figure out if Catholicism is where I am being led to go.

Thank you
Nicole

**You cannot recieve Communion if you are using ABC. You have to go to Confession and stop the use before you can participate in Communion, because ABC is sinful and you can’t be in a state of mortal sin when you recieve Communion. That’s just the way it is.

As far as having medical conditions that can be controlled by birth control, I’m not 100% sure, but if you are not having sex I think it is okay because then there is no possibility of abortifacientation or preventing life. You’d have to ask a priest or something though, don’t take my word**

 

[Nicolemj]

**
As far as having medical conditions that can be controlled by birth control, I’m not 100% sure, but if you are not having sex I think it is okay** because then there is no possibility of abortifacientation or preventing life. You’d have to ask a priest or something though, don’t take my word

This applies if you are married? That would mean you are not allowed to have sex with your husband? It seems like that would mean unless you are trying to conceive a child there is no reason for sex?

This has me confused…still

 

[Kit15]

This applies if you are married? That would mean you are not allowed to have sex with your husband? It seems like that would mean unless you are trying to conceive a child there is no reason for sex?

This has me confused…still

It’s a very multi-layered topic and isn’t easy to sum up in a few words or forum posts. You’d probably be best served reading some reputable books on the subject.

For example: are we taking about a medical condition that artificial BC actually can cure or a condition that would be aggravated by a pregnancy? Depending on what you say could result in different answers (each one having several parts to it)

None of this means that the *only *purpose of sex is to procreate. But it does acknowledge that procreation is an important function of sex.

 

[Serap]

**You cannot recieve Communion if you are using ABC. You have to go to Confession and stop the use before you can participate in Communion, because ABC is sinful and you can’t be in a state of mortal sin when you recieve Communion. That’s just the way it is.

As far as having medical conditions that can be controlled by birth control, I’m not 100% sure, but if you are not having sex I think it is okay because then there is no possibility of abortifacientation or preventing life. You’d have to ask a priest or something though, don’t take my word**

It’s not 100% that a person is in a state of mortal sin using ABC. Only God knows for sure. Be careful.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

It’s not 100% that a person is in a state of mortal sin using ABC. Only God knows for sure. Be careful.

God knows for sure when we are talking of someone elses soul.

When examining our own consciences we can absoulutely know if we are in mortal sin. It wouldn’t be fair to us if God knew when we were guilty, but we were oblivious to our own guilt.

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin

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I’ll use myself as an example…at around age 14 I stopped going to Mass regularly.

I had good catechesis in school, especially around the time I made my first Communion, “Missing Mass , unless there was a serious reason is a mortal sin.” Sometimes in my younger years (8, 9, 10) we would have a family outing on a Sunday, causing me to miss Mass. I would not receive then until I went to confession.

At 14 I knew in my heart missing mass was wrong, but I rationalized it.

At ages 14-33 I was in a possibly perpetual state of Mortal Sin. I knew it, sometimes I denied it to myself.

 

[Inthemountains]

I’ve read this whole thread and there is one thing that hasn’t been brought up. Those of you with smaller family sizes might assume incorrectly that you are being judged. I have five kids… not huge, but larger than average in this culture. I have had acquaintances and friends, unsolicited, tell me why they have fewer children. Its none of my business. And I never wonder why someone has a small family. I do think that ABC in general is a big problem in the church, but I have never assumed that an individual couple is contracepting. And I do have one friend who has told me that she contracepts and I don’t judge her either. Because I know how hard this road has been for me and given the climate in our Church and culture, I can UNDERSTAND (though not agree with) someone who has come to the place where they justify contraception.

The other thing to consider, is that those of us who have larger families get all kinds of judgment as well. My Catholic family judges me. Society in general judges me. I get all kinds of comments informing me about the availability of birth control. So you know what? You can’t win either way!

I am sure that infertility is a painful cross. But abundant fertility can be as well. I get pregnant very easily and I have health problems that make pregnancy very difficult. I am in my mid thirties and I’m terrified at how many more children I might have as I have close relatives who have had babies in their fifties. There are other things that would make having more babies very difficult for us, but I won’t go into all of the reasons here. NFP is a tremendous cross for me. I would like to be able to freely express my love physically to my husband, but we have to endure a lot of abstinence. The physical separation is painful for us. I am constantly tempted to resort to sterilization. But we have endured, so far. Fertility issues, whether infertility or abundant fertility, can be a real cross.

 

[silentstar]

I read once that if you have anything other than 2-parent family with 2 kids, one boy and one girl, you get judged. And even then you are judged on parenting style, how you raise your kids, whether the spacing between them is ‘right,’ and if the mother stays home or works outside the home. I don’t have kids but I see that people esp. women get judged a lot. And if you have any number different from 2 you are judged. 3 is OK and more than that is considered weird by some people.

 

[Serap]

God knows for sure when we are talking of someone elses soul.

When examining our own consciences we can absoulutely know if we are in mortal sin. It wouldn’t be fair to us if God knew when we were guilty, but we were oblivious to our own guilt.

**Just to clarify. What i meant was that when a person prays to God and opens their conscience, they will receive an answer from God whether or not they are in mortal sin. Therefore, God is the decider of mortal sin and God will influence someone’s conscience (especially if they pray for clarity of their conscience). It’s not up to a person to state whether or not someone is in mortal sin. Even the pope couldn’t make that judgement call about anyone. **
.

I’ll use myself as an example…at around age 14 I stopped going to Mass regularly.

I had good catechesis in school, especially around the time I made my first Communion, “Missing Mass , unless there was a serious reason is a mortal sin.” Sometimes in my younger years (8, 9, 10) we would have a family outing on a Sunday, causing me to miss Mass. I would not receive then until I went to confession.

At 14 I knew in my heart missing mass was wrong, but I rationalized it.

At ages 14-33 I was in a possibly perpetual state of Mortal Sin. I knew it, sometimes I denied it to myself.

 

[Cojuanco]

Family size is insufficient evidence. Take me, for example. I’m an only child. My parents have never used contraception (heck, they still don’t know what NFP is, but they know that contraception is Wrong with a capital W). So why the small family? Likely for two reasons:

1. When I was a child, my parents worked their butts off (part of the modern era) for hours, and would often be too tired, now I look back at it, to even think of the marital act, let alone do it. This of course doesn’t count the times when only one parent would be at the house at a given time due to one having to work overtime (prices in large metro areas are really expensive, and it’s a hard slog when you’re an immigrant fresh off the plane).
2. My father was 28, mother 29 when they had me. Likely the biological clock was at its end.

So, unless they tell you straight to your face, you can’t really assume that someone is on ABC. The folks with the only child may well have little opportunity to sit together at dinner, let alone do “it”. They may be infertile. Or maybe God decided that they would only have a certain number of kids.