Fans of Taylor Marshall: what's going on?

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I’m not trying to be ugly about Taylor Marshall or his beliefs. In fact, I agree with many of them. But I’m increasingly confused and since I know there are many here who are fans of his, I thought I’d ask for your thoughts. What’s going on with him, and how will this impact the traditional Catholic movement?

Marshall has a fairly big presence on Twitter. On Easter Sunday, he shared that he’d brought his family to an SSPX Mass so they could receive Eucharist (SSPX parishes haven’t closed due to covid-19 – at least not where he is in Texas). He received many approvals and some complaints. David Gordon (Tim’s brother, half of “Rules for Retrogrades”) criticized Marshall’s choice and described the SSPX as schismatic. A disagreement then started that involved Marshall and David, Tim, and Tim’s wife, and it led to Marshall blocking all of the Gordons and many, many others who disagreed with him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1250205777475796994

This includes followers who disagreed rather politely. All of this happened while Tim’s daughter is in the hospital having brain surgery.

I understand why receiving criticism was hurtful for Marshall. I do not believe the SSPX is schismatic and while I won’t attend one of their Masses myself, I don’t have an opinion on those who do. But blocking the other half of the old TNT show, which garnered Marshall’s channel so much attention? That was surprising to me, especially given what the Gordons are experiencing.

Additionally, Tim has subsequently explained that he didn’t want to end the TNT collaboration but Marshall chose to do so. That was surprising to me, as well, since TNT was so popular. Marshall refused to answer viewer questions about what happened.

A few months ago, Marshall also wiped clean his entire Twitter account. This happened at the same time that the Pachamama idol was taken from the Vatican and thrown in the Tiber. He didn’t provide an explanation (he didn’t need to, of course – it was just odd). He then interviewed the Austrian man who took the idol and they pretended during the interview not to know one another. Yet last week Lifesite News revealed that Marshall had bankrolled the operation.

So I’m confused. Marshall has proven to be a leader in traditional Catholic circles. He seemed to agree with Michael Matt’s proposition that traditional Catholics should “unite the clans.” But now it seems like Marshall is acting in contradiction to the proposition to unify.

Should Marshall still be a trusted source? Is there a path forward to unify traditional Catholics or are the differences that exist between various factions too great?
 
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I think Marshall is a bright man but my overall impression is that he is promoting his own agenda (‘Heroic’ pachamama stunt, apologetic of SSPX, open disagreement with other trads etc) instead of Unity in the Catholic Church. It is a (dangerous) slippery slope.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
If he was showing off about having received Communion when many others are not able to do so, then he doesn’t deserve to be any sort of trusted leader. Pride with a capital P.
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This was my first thought, too. Then he said to someone that if we’ve ever shared that we’ve received while many in, say, China can’t, we must also be guilty of pride. I don’t really think the situations are fully comparable but figured maybe I was being prideful.
 
I’m quite concerned for him. I can see him getting more and more entrenched with the SSPX as he gets more and more pushback and gives more and more pushback. I sympathize with him wanting to receive communion, and how awful it is for public Mass to be canceled (much less for Easter) and to not know the next time you’ll receive communion. But he and the SSPX either missed or ignored the whole point of the suspension. I’m inclined to blame the SSPX more than I do Taylor Marshall, as they’re the ones running their chapel and are supposed to comply with the local bishop, but Taylor Marshall is also under his bishop’s authority and should know that these weren’t suspended for a malicious reason.
 
ThomasMT said:
He’s not perfect. Yes, there may be elements of pride and ego. That doesn’t have anything to do with the validity of the issues and concerns that he presents, nor does it detract from his historical presentations of the traditional Catholic faith.

As for the SSPX, I think that it is worthwhile to take note
and inspiration how it dealt with this crises and continued to serve the faithful. But, you know… haters gonna hate.
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Sorry – haters of the SSPX or Taylor Marshall?
 
I think all of these celebrity Catholic internet stars have to keep doing more and more outrageous things to keep eyes glued on them. It’s literally their livelihood, isn’t it?
I think all of these figures need to get a “day job” if they don’t already have one.
 
27lw said:
I think all of these celebrity Catholic internet stars have to keep doing more and more outrageous things to keep eyes glued on them. It’s literally their livelihood, isn’t it?
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That might be part of it, but a lot of them, including Marshall, seem to have drifted out of the Catholic orbit and are transitioning to some sort of schism. It has really picked up since the Amazon synod, but I think it has to do with the fact that they abandoned all hope in Cardinal Sarah becoming the next pope. Before the synod, they often voiced this hope. By January. when Sarah’s book debacle took place, there was nary a mention of Sarah’s papability in the alt-Catholic press. Like none.

Since the prospect of Cardinal Sarah becoming Pope was the only ray of hope they had of ever recovering power, and since that hope has been taken away, a lot of the alt-Catholic figures seem to be eyeing the exit. But in a vague sort of way. I don’t think a lot of them have formed concrete plans yet. And I highly doubt that they are going to join together in any meaningful way.
 
I was fasting from Twitter during all of Lent, so I wasn’t following the dust ups.

HOWEVER, I’ve been a follower of Taylor Marshall for a while and I have the following thoughts, comments.
  1. It was most likely a mistake for him to post about attending the SSPX for Easter. I understand why he went, but I think he shouldn’t have posted it. He seems to have posted it out of gratitude and to apologize to the SSPX for incorrect things he said about them.
  • The truth is, there is A LOT of misinformation about the SSPX. However, it is also true that there are also a number of SSPX priests who are willing to publicly defy the bishops. Whether right or wrong in their position, the SSPX is prone to publicly disagreeing with bishops, and that’s not good. Regardless if Taylor’s intent was good or not, he should have expected a negative reaction from many.
  1. The only thing I know about the Twitter spat with the Gordons is that Taylor feels the need to block them in order to end a conversation that he feels should not be public. Regardless of who is at fault for starting it, I can respect him for wanting to publicly ending it. I have no idea what the background is, but I agree with Taylor that whatever issues Taylor and the Gordons have should remain private.
  • His blocking is SIMILAR to bishops who block people who publicly argue with them. Some people might not like it, but if it’s hurting one’s spiritual health, it might be best to block.
  1. There are many (myself included) that felt that Taylor Marshall’s videos with Tim Gordon were often the most negative ones (and hurting his ministry with the New Saint Thomas Institute). I’ve read many (including my own posts/tweets) about the vast majority of Taylor’s videos being good until Tim and even when TNT was still on the air, most of Taylor’s videos (when alone) were good.
  • I can’t help but wonder if Taylor realized that his TNT videos might have been hurting the New Saint Thomas Institute.
  1. While the Gordons do have good qualities (everyone does) they are not ones to back down from an argument. Taylor on the other hand has had a tendency not to fight on Twitter. He surely posts things even if they are controversial, however, I rarely have seen him engage in a full blown argument over Twitter. And like all of us, isn’t perfect and says things I’m sure he regrets. However, more often, he will ignore it. The Gordons are quick to fight back in order to win the argument. Perhaps, it’s Taylor’s training as an Episcopal Priest at play here?
Point is: I don’t think Taylor’s “unite the clans” view has really changed. Only thing I think that has changed is that Taylor is now open to welcoming the SSPX into the fold. This is a MAJOR issue for some Catholic conservatives, esp the “JP2” conservatives.
 
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ThomasMT said:
As for the SSPX, I think that it is worthwhile to take note
and inspiration how it dealt with this crises and continued to serve the faithful. But, you know… haters gonna hate.
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The SSPX manages to get away with what they do because they have a relatively small attendance in the USA. If we all followed Taylor’s lead and went there for Easter Holy Communion, it would quickly either be shut down by the authorities, or people would be getting COVID at the services.
 
27lw said:
I think all of these celebrity Catholic internet stars have to keep doing more and more outrageous things to keep eyes glued on them.
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I don’t know a lot about Marshall, and I don’t care for his product. But it seems like many of the professional Catholic celebrities end up having problems. I hope for his sake he is not headed that direction.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
If we all followed Taylor’s lead and went there for Easter Holy Communion, it would quickly either be shut down by the authorities, or people would be getting COVID at the services.
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A moot point for devout, traditional, faithful Catholics.
 
I’m a regular listener to his podcast but I don’t use Twitter, so I’m not always up to speed on his posts with regards to that platform. I tried to read a few of the twitter comments and I saw that he offered to host a show with Michael Voris about their opposing views on the SSPX, but I don’t know what the response was.

But it did seem like some of his friends, colleagues and supporters began criticizing him right out of the gate, merely because he attended the SSPX chapel. On the traditional side there is talk about uniting the clans, but it seems like the blame isn’t solely on Marshall for the division. I don’t believe he was pushing an SSPX agenda, but nevertheless he was openly blasted anyway. If pride is the cause of the posts, then one could just as easily point the finger at his critics, for even thinking that there was a need to say anything negative to begin with.

I think it does look bad when you begin blocking people who disagree with you. Unless, it’s because the naysayers are being hateful or inflammatory with their remarks. But some people do that here as well. I can’t tell you how many times a person will chime in on a thread, drop a few remarks expressing their opinions and views and as soon as they start getting opposing feedback, they say they are done and mute the thread.
 
Fauken said:
Putting yourself at risk is one thing, but catching a disease where you could be unknowingly spreading it for over a week is not charitable or a devout, pious action to be praised. We’re called to be devout, charitable, and prudent.
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Sorry, I dont agree with such fuzzy, subjective risk/benefit assessments, hence deferment to faith. The greater risk comes from abandoning tradition and trust in the Lord… from doing things that separate faithful souls from the Lord.

Besides, the “at risk” ones should be the ones isolating. It only makes sense that the sooner the virus burns through the healthier segment of the population, the sooner herd immunity is established. Yea, I know the next counter argument… I heard it all. I will place my trust in God’s Will, thank you.
 
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ThomasMT said:
Sorry, I dont agree with such fuzzy, subjective risk/benefit assessments, hence deferment to faith. The greater risk comes from abandoning faithful souls.
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And just what is fuzzy about it? You have no problems assuming the bishops and the priests who obey them are abandoning souls based on, what, exactly? The fact they can’t attend public Mass? You don’t think the clergy burying their heads in the sand about the health risks would make the people feel abandoned? That they don’t care what’s going on, they want their butts in pews on Sunday and refuse to acknowledge how diseases are transferred?
ThomasMT said:
Besides, the “at risk” ones should be the ones isolating. It only makes sense that the sooner the virus burns through the healthier segment of the population, the sooner herd immunity is established. Yea, I know the next counter argument… I heard it all. I will place my trust in God’s Will, thank you.
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Excepr the at-risk people have to eventually leave their houses. At-risk people still need food. At-risk people still need medical services when they need to. All the while you’ll walk around town spreading it, because you too need the same essential services they do. And even the not at-risk people are dying of this, granted not in as large numbers, but they are dying and requiring hospitalization. The problem with this isn’t though the mortality or even how contagious thec disease is. It’s the fact that those healthy people who require hospitalization would need hospital beds and resources that would otherwise be used for the at-risk people. Hospitals have only so many beds, supplies, and workers.

But you of course knew all of this, right?

If you’re okay with putting other people’s lives in danger all so you can go to Mass and just wave their deaths off as “God’s will”, that’s on you. But you have some nerve implying that those of us who find that to be an unnecessary risk and sacrifice the most treasured part of our lives for the sake of others on the advice of physicians and the bishops are un-pious, unfaithful, and not traditional.
 
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Fauken said:
You have no problems assuming the bishops and the priests who obey them are abandoning souls based on, what, exactly? The fact they can’t attend public Mass?
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Careful, you are the one making assumption here… not very charitable of you.
Fauken said:
Excepr the at-risk people have to eventually leave their houses. At-risk people still need food. At-risk people still need…
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Fauken said:
But you of course knew all of this, right?
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Yes, I do know… like I said, I heard it all. My cost/benefit risk/reward analysis is not the same as yours. I’d like to think that is is more rooted in reason and faith, rather than emotion. You can live in fear, I choose to live in faith. It’s a fairly easy thing to do when we subdue our arrogance enough to acknowledge that no matter how much power we think we have, ultimately something this big is out of our control.
Fauken said:
If you’re okay with putting other people’s lives in danger…
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Sorry, I dont subscribe to emotionalized what-if’s. Life goes on, through thick and thin.
Fauken said:
But you have some nerve implying that those of us who find that to be an unnecessary risk and sacrifice…
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Again, you belittle yourself by making assumptions. You are welcome to manage your own risks as you see fit. I value and respect however you may feel the need to protect yourself and your family. I also value whatever insights you may have to offer in that regard. My problem is your contempt for other’s freedom to do the same, especially when such contempt is wrapped in the banner of self-righteous “for the greater good” rhetoric.
 
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To be honest most of these professional Catholics are really tiresome. . . . There are some that are decent but it’s like a whole industry has sprung up creating this toxic Catholic celebrity culture. . . . Interesting phenomena of our day. . . .
 
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