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MartinJordan
Guest
What does “partners” have to do with Father as God? There’s no such thing in Jesus’ teaching.
MJ
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MJ
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Christ’s divinity is shown over and over again in the New Testament. For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he “called God his Father, making himself equal with God.”
In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am”—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—“I Am” (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. “So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple” (John 8:59).
In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, “My Lord and my God!” (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, “The Lord of me and the God of me!”)
In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus “who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be gasped”. So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was “in very nature God.”
Also significant are passages that apply the title “the First and the Last” to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: “Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’” (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).
This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: “When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’” (Rev. 1:17). “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’” (Rev. 2:8). “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end” (Rev. 22:12–13).
This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title “the Alpha and the Omega,” which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” (Rev. 1:8).
Do you believe the Holy Bible hasantas?
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MartinJordan
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hasantas
Guest
Yes. There is no use to repeat same issues. You believe in Trinity but Muslims believe in one God!I think focus has shifted to another thread on the Quran.
Case closed perhaps.
MJ
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JimmyDFG
Guest
John 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”
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Seachange
Guest
Most Muslims gain weight during Ramadan as they gorge themselves every night and every morning to make up for not eating during the day (google for articles - there are many).
Ramadan is not a month of self-denial and spiritual awakening but rather a month of feasting and self-indulgence where every carnal appetite is satisfied to excess during the hours of darkness.
This is what I observed while living in Saudi Arabia for 25 years and in Iran for 4.
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Reuben_J
Guest
That goes to show that those Muslims were not following the spirit of Ramadan fasting. In fact Ramadan fast is when they should exercise restrain and not excess. A time of moderation, repentance, prayers and alms giving, elements where are also found in Christian fasting during Lent, except that Lenten fast does not demand complete abstaining from food.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Yes, Christians do fast. Catholics set aside a season of fasting called Lent, which is slightly more than a month, before Easter, which is major celebration in Christianity.
During Lent, those Christians are required to give alms, prayers and penance. Those who cannot fast from food, should replace them with other form of abstention.
It is like Muslim Ramadan in some ways except that it is not enforced publicly. I admire your way of fasting, and wish we could be more discipline when it comes to fast.
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hasantas
Guest
And also in Qur’an it is said that Jesus were used to perform Salat(bowing and prostration during worship).
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Reuben_J
Guest
Jesus would teach you that what really matters is from your heart, not so much of what you do on the outside.
Fasting is always in the context of prayers, not just for the sake of refraining from food, which in itself is useless, if your heart is not sincere.
This is the reason why Christian fast is not imposed upon the adherents. You would not have priests whipping a Christian caught not fasting in the street unlike what you see in some Islamic countries where Muslims caught not fasting in Ramadan would be thrown in jail or being literally whipped by the police. This could only make the persons move away from your religion even though he would outwardly follow what your police say in fear of being punished.
Christian fast during Lent is not only abstaining during the daytime but for the whole season which is 40 days. Even at night, they should not eat the usual portion that they used to take during ordinary time. You do not feast before and after the fasting because that would make a mockery of it.
Jesus also teaches that when you fast you should look normal and be happy. Do not make yourself look miserable because of hunger. In other word, fasting is between you and God; not to show off for people to see. If people praise you then truly you already received your rewards.
What’s important is what you do in the dark (when nobody sees you) because God knows and sees whatever you do, and you do it for God only.
Imitating Jesus superficially means nothing. You do not know his teaching if you do not know his life and you do not know him if you do not know what he has taught.
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MartinJordan
Guest
Yes. We believe in the Trinity. Because Jesus the Son of God (the same Holy Essence of God ) taught it . Trinity is Love and Love comes from God. We can partake in the Divinity of God because of the Son of God. He is the Lamb of God (Jesus claims this even in your Bible
)who died for us , yes and you too, for the Salvation of the World.Please read your Bible with love. That is. reading it completely. Let Jesus speak fully.
Peace be with you.
MJ
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MartinJordan
Guest
Further to above :
John 3: 11- 21 here is Jesus with his Holy Words speaking the Truth:
Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,** 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."
Peace be with you
MJ**
John 3: 11- 21 here is Jesus with his Holy Words speaking the Truth:
Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,** 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."
Peace be with you
MJ**
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Seachange
Guest
ISIS is crucifying people for breaking the fast, including children.
Most Muslim religious practices are carried out under the watchful gaze of the Hai’a, not just fasting during Ramadan.
How well I remember those men in black robes carrying cudgels wandering about looking for anyone they feel is not obeying some small stricture of Islam so they can beat them.
Whatever happened to ‘there is no compulsion’?
In Islam, there is only compulsion complete with religious police.
What spiritual benefit can be received from fasting or performing any religious observance out of fear of being punished?
As I see it, Muslims practice the height of hypocrisy as they parade their fast before the world while going around with long faces, acting faint from hunger and considering themselves especially holy while in practice indulging in every form of self-gratification to excess in the dark for 40 days. Don’t think this is hidden from God.
Back when I lived in Saudi Arabia, some of my father’s Muslim subordinates would come to our home after work to socialize. My dad served them whiskey. One of them would accept the drink, dip in one finger and flick a drop away then drink the rest because the Quran says that the first drop (of alcohol) shall not pass your lips - and that was the first drop.
In reality, it is not that difficult to go the daylight hours without food when morning and evening meals more than make up for the lack of food during the day. I once fasted for 3 days without any food whatsoever one summer in KSA. (this was before I was a Christian) It wasn’t particularly hard until the 3rd day. The only thing difficult about the Muslim fast is going without water.
Moreover, the Muslim fast is particularly unhealthy. Alternating feasting and fasting in a 24 hour period plays havoc with your metabolism especially considering some the super sweet specialty treats made during Ramadan (fast all day then load your system with sugar - do you want to develop diabetes?) and going without water when it is 118F can be fatal.
As Jesus taught, when you fast, bathe, comb your hair, put on nice clothes, maintain a cheerful attitude and don’t tell anyone you are fasting.
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hasantas
Guest
I agree with your definition of fasting and that is suitable for Islam. The aim of fast to perform order of God. But why do you think Muslims are not sincere about fasting? And there are many Muslims who do not fast but nobody get jailed!
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Markay
Guest
My comment only applies to fellow Catholics/Christians. I would just like to remind you that we as Catholics and Christians in general should not participate in Muslim fasts and it would be blasphemy against our God to do so. Allah is not God so we should not worship him or make fasts and other things unto him for doing so would be directly braking the first of the ten commandments. Fasts unto God are good but it is better to feast then to fast unto a false God(Allah in this case).
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omgriley
Guest
If you ask me it’s an unnecessaryily stricter version. The way my Muslim friend explains it, they cannot eat or drink anything after ‘sunrise’ which evidentially happens at 3:30 in the morning.
However, this seems more like starvation, rather than fasting.
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MartinJordan
Guest
As far as I know, the fasting is part of the knowledge that there are lot of people in the world are starving, so fasting is supposed to be concious of the unfortunate thus learn to be humble and not to take things for granted. All in all, actually a good thing.
However, this is not the meaning of fasting in the Lent sense of the word.
MJ
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arthra
Guest
I had a question for Hasantas…
How has the Fast been for you? and
have you received any insights you’d care to share?
God bless you!
How has the Fast been for you? and
have you received any insights you’d care to share?
God bless you!
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