Fate of Eastern Catholic Churches if Orthodox are Reconciled

[DavidKays]

Why don’t you just become Catholic then? To be clear, I never called you an insult to Orthodoxy. I don’t understand why you don’t just become Roman Catholic since you seemed so enthused by Western worship and Western theological “developments”. The way you speak it seems like you might be happier there. I’m not suprised you have problems in your church if this is the sort of stuff you go around telling people.

Brother, you just don’t quite get it! I have 2 mothers and I do not discard one for the other. And by the way sir my Orthodox parish came out of St.Peter’s Cathedral . They do not think like you! We all grew up in a Catholic way because there was no Orthodox Church around. Now are you kind of blind because I just told you in my last post that all the Orthodox grew up Catholic. Now you seem to want to pick a fight with me then forget it. I am only interested in telling it as it is. You seem to want to dodge it. Now I really do not know why you came on this forum to pick and chose the way you do. People are correct about the Orthodox when on these forums they say that most of the Orthodox have this type of behaviour, superiority complex, cold, cranky. I only want to express what I believe because of what I experienced. You want to express a superiority complex that I see on these forums when the Orthodox are heard on these forums. I wish to express what I experience and that is why I am better an authority on Catholicism than most Orthodox can ever be! I do not wish to engage in useless arguements but to express something useful in the betterment of God’s kingdom. Now since God put me in that position to know the Catholic Way, why then do you criticised it? If what God did for me was a good thing then why do you think it is not? It seems to me that most Orthodox on these forums like to be critical to the RC’s. I wish not to be. I have a great love for the Church of Rome. So why do you criticised something you do not have? Is it because you do not have this love for Rome and wish you did! People who tend to be critical can never understand another because they are in fact lacking what that other person possess. So God gave me a understanding that He can’t give to the rest of the Orthodox. Now what is it with you and the RC’s. How come you don’t like them? Now come on you told me why don’t I become one. You don’t like any Orthodox who likes the Catholics! I like to know from my Catholic brethren what do they think about any Orthodox who do not like any Othodox who loves the Catholic Way. It seems to me they do not like you either. So my Orthodox brother I will say it again and I don’t care how many of you want to criticised me but I am one Orthodox who can say with conviction that he appreciates the Catholic Church and love her with alot of good compliments because she has done me a great service and I will never forget her kindness in accepting me into her family. God Bless!

 

[DavidKays]

He is saying that your thoughts and beliefs are those of a Catholic. Religion may be something you are born into, but it is not something one is bound to beyond what you allow yourself to be bound to.

Why am I defending myself with the likes of you guys. I know who I am. If I talk like a Catholic it is because I grew up that way but I am also well informed in Orthodox theology. I prefer to talk Catholic here because it is a Catholic website but I can turn into an Orthodox anytime and if you read some of my posts you can see that. I train myself in the Eastern Way for a very long time. I am trained in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine. If I chose not to reveal my Orthodox side it is for good reason. But I can talk Orthodox with anyone. It is just I do not want to reveal it every time. I choose my Catholic side because at the time the Catholic doctrine seems more fitting. You are right that you are not bound to your own but I did not chose the Catholic Way. God did that. It was then I was searching my Orthodox beliefs that I began an ernest study of the Eastern Way. I love and appreciate the Eastern Way much more than I have written on these forums. To tell you the truth it will be the Eastern Way that must be developed more in the West. Sorry if I use harsh words but I am developed in both Eastern and Western thought and because I started out Western I wanted to know my Orthodox roots. How can I know Orthodoxy when it was never taught to me in the first 28 years of my life. But I have studied Orthodoxy and I must say I am somewhat an authority on it. But you see it was not my fault that I did not learn the Eastern Way. I had to begin to learn it when I found out at 28 that I was officially Orthodox. That immediately led me to study it and to pray it. That is why today I am well versed in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine. But thank you for your comment! God Bless!

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother DavidKays,

Sir I am born into one family and I do not join another like the marines. Ok. I have a Greek Orthodox baptism. I am born into this family. I do not switch to become Catholic. You are born into a family! You don’t join them like you do the marines! Now are you telling me that I have to give up my Orthodox baptism to enter a Catholic Church. Now you got to be kidding! What I am saying and it is to you Orthodox that really are the problem, is that Orthodox and Catholics need not switch to each other. You belong to each other. Now if you can`t understand that, fine! I can understand the way the Orthodox think. But for you to think the Catholics are not in the right way is the reason I have engage to fight this. I do not for any reason believe what most Orthodox do. You want to call me a heretic, fine!, I do not mind if the truth needs to come out! And the truth is not that I have been latinized whatever the heck that means but the truth that my Catholic brothers and sisters are as part of me as I am of them. I do not have to be Catholic to do that. And now I am going to suggest this. If someday I will meet a devout catholic girl and we decide to enter into a marriage relationship with her and because she has great love for her own church and I decide that we will go together in her church I will never give up my Orthodox baptism! I may even because the Church of Rome allows permament deacons to enter this ministry in the Catholic Church with my Catholic wife and still remain Orthodox. I am sure His Holiness Benedict XVI will give me permission to remain Orthodox and become a permament deacon in the catholic church. You know you can love something without giving up what you are. I love the Orthodox Church. What bothers me is their attitudes. God Bless!

I know several Eastern Orthodox who love the Catholic Church and do not consider her to be in heresy, and remain Eastern Orthodox.

I know one fellow who loves the Catholic Church, and became Oriental Orthodox, and works tirelessly for reunion.

I know many cradle Catholics who love Orthodoxy and consider themselves to be fully Orthodox in communion with Rome.

I, in particular, am an Orthodox in communion with Rome who came into Catholic communion from Coptic Orthodoxy about 5 years ago. I have not had to give up anything of what makes me Orthodox in order to become Catholic - all I had to give up were my misconceptions of Catholicism. With a deep appreciation of the similarities between Oriental Orthodoxy and Catholicism, I always say, when people ask, that I translated - not converted - to the Catholic Church.

FWIW, I don’t think your point of view is un-Orthodox at all. However, it would not be possible for you to become a deacon in the Catholic Church while being a member of the Orthodox Church. Such an impediment is more canonical than theological (especially if you personally feel the Catholic distinctions are not heretical). Thus, the Pope could theoretically dispense you from that restriction, but it is - realistically speaking - unlikely he would do so, since such a dispensation would open up a very large can of very large worms regarding the jurisdictional prerogatives of other Churches…

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[DavidKays]

Dear brother DavidKays,

I know several Eastern Orthodox who love the Catholic Church and do not consider her to be in heresy, and remain Eastern Orthodox.

I know one fellow who loves the Catholic Church, and became Oriental Orthodox, and works tirelessly for reunion.

I know many cradle Catholics who love Orthodoxy and consider themselves to be fully Orthodox in communion with Rome.

I, in particular, am an Orthodox in communion with Rome who came into Catholic communion from Coptic Orthodoxy about 5 years ago. I have not had to give up anything of what makes me Orthodox in order to become Catholic - all I had to give up were my misconceptions of Catholicism. With a deep appreciation of the similarities between Oriental Orthodoxy and Catholicism, I always say, when people ask, that I translated - not converted - to the Catholic Church.

FWIW, I don’t think your point of view is un-Orthodox at all. However, it would not be possible for you to become a deacon in the Catholic Church while being a member of the Orthodox Church. Such an impediment is more canonical than theological (especially if you personally feel the Catholic distinctions are not heretical). Thus, the Pope could theoretically dispense you from that restriction, but it is - realistically speaking - unlikely he would do so, since such a dispensation would open up a very large can of very large worms regarding the jurisdictional prerogatives of other Churches…

Blessings,
Marduk

Hi Marduk and thank you for your post. You are deeply religeous person from what I read. Personally I don’t think of it as a problem to become a deacon in the Catholic Church because I do have a Catholic orientation. I do not see any problems in Catholic teaching. I actually incoperate alot of Catholic teaching when I teach at my Orthodox Church. It is because I have entered into my next phase of my life to see where God wishes to place me. I am very interested in studying to become a deacon in the Church and that is where I must allow God to decide. If I meet with a devout catholic girl then I will be inclined to enter the Catholic Church as a deacon but I wish to keep my Orthodox status. If then God introduces a devout Orthodox girl then I will chose to be a deacon in the Orthodox Church. God has given me a great gift. The ability to teach the faith like my mentor has done, St.John Chyrsostom. Please I am not comparing myself to him but I did pray to God to give me the grace to teach with the ability St.John Chrysostom taught. I am now using his methods to teach the faith and it has produced excellent results. I like the mystical way and the way John taught. It took me a long time and now God has given me this ability. I hope soon He will place me where He wishes me to be so that I can teach. Because I am not married and the Church will not permit you to get married once you have become a deacon then I am waiting until God will introduce me to someone I can enter into a marriage relationship with. I do love children and do possess skills of parenting. Thank you again for your post. I think I have heard from you before. God Bless!

 

[sidbrown]

I have not had to give up anything of what makes me Orthodox in order to become Catholic - all I had to give up were my misconceptions of Catholicism.

That is difficult to believe.
When you converted to Catholicism, did you retain the exact same views you had while you were Orthodox on the following:
the infallibility of the Pope
the supreme jurisdiction of the Pope
indulgences
Purgatory
the Immaculate Conception
Mortal sin and venial sin

 

[mardukm]

That is difficult to believe.
When you converted to Catholicism, did you retain the exact same views you had while you were Orthodox on the following:
the infallibility of the Pope
the supreme jurisdiction of the Pope
indulgences
Purgatory
the Immaculate Conception
Mortal sin and venial sin

I already said that part of my journey involved getting rid of the misconceptions I had of the Catholic Church.

After I learned from Catholic sources what these teachings actually were, instead of what I had been fed from non-Catholic sources, I realized they were fully orthodox and did not contradict Orthodoxy. Even when my non-Catholic sources quoted Catholic documents, they were sadly deficient in context, but rather gave only little snippets to support a biased and anti-Catholic agenda. So I was rather surprised when I read the Catholic documents for themselves.

Blessings

 

[Kokomoka]

Brother in Christ DavidKeys: You have written beautifully what many of us believe in our hearts! I too, believe that “wife and husband” should no longer be separate.I can’t say it any better than you have. Thank you! It WILL happen. Many of us can ‘feel’ it. So many are hopeful and praying for this. We children want “mom and dad” to get back together! Thankyou so much for your point of view! Blessings!
(Michele)

 

[trophybearer]

Why am I defending myself with the likes of you guys. I know who I am. If I talk like a Catholic it is because I grew up that way but I am also well informed in Orthodox theology. I prefer to talk Catholic here because it is a Catholic website but I can turn into an Orthodox anytime and if you read some of my posts you can see that. I train myself in the Eastern Way for a very long time. I am trained in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine. If I chose not to reveal my Orthodox side it is for good reason. But I can talk Orthodox with anyone. It is just I do not want to reveal it every time. I choose my Catholic side because at the time the Catholic doctrine seems more fitting. You are right that you are not bound to your own but I did not chose the Catholic Way. God did that. It was then I was searching my Orthodox beliefs that I began an ernest study of the Eastern Way. I love and appreciate the Eastern Way much more than I have written on these forums. To tell you the truth it will be the Eastern Way that must be developed more in the West. Sorry if I use harsh words but I am developed in both Eastern and Western thought and because I started out Western I wanted to know my Orthodox roots. How can I know Orthodoxy when it was never taught to me in the first 28 years of my life. But I have studied Orthodoxy and I must say I am somewhat an authority on it. But you see it was not my fault that I did not learn the Eastern Way. I had to begin to learn it when I found out at 28 that I was officially Orthodox. That immediately led me to study it and to pray it. That is why today I am well versed in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine. But thank you for your comment! God Bless!

You’re an authority on Orthodoxy? That’s quite a statement. Being Baptized Orthodox doesn’t make you “officially” Orthodox for the rest of your life. Having right belief and being united to the Holy Orthodox Church makes you an Orthodox Christian. You’re officially whatever faith you worship and believe in. It’s not like being born Irish or something.

 

[DavidKays]

You’re an authority on Orthodoxy? That’s quite a statement. Being Baptized Orthodox doesn’t make you “officially” Orthodox for the rest of your life. Having right belief and being united to the Holy Orthodox Church makes you an Orthodox Christian. You’re officially whatever faith you worship and believe in. It’s not like being born Irish or something.

You know your the most closed minded person I ever met. I had enough of you and your ranting. If you think for one second that knowledge is going to get you to heaven even right knowledge then forget it. Its what you do with that knowledge in loving the person in front of you. The devil has more knowledge than anyone and probably can preach a sermon better than any saint but look at what he is. He may got the knowledge but he got no love. It’s what you do to what you have that makes you important. I don’t give a damn ( excuse my language ) about all the knowledge in the world or in the Church if you can’t love the person in front of you! I aplogize but man you got to grow up! You want to be like Jesus then learn to love. You think anyone with correct knowledge is an authority. Only if that person can love with ever knowledge he has! That’s the difference my friend. To show love, to show mercy, to give love, to give mercy. That is the real standard to live by. All the knowledge in the Church will not be worth beans unless you learn to love and to give love! I am a Greek Orthodox Christian and I do not need the likes of you to tell me who I am or who I am not. I know who I am and I do not care about your opinions unless they can edify. To be an authority on Orthodoxy is to love like our Lord Jesus and that my friend determines if you are an authority! I have enough of you and your rantings. I am sorry but someone got to say it. You want to rant then look in the mirror. Mayby someone will listen to you there. God Bless!

 

[trophybearer]

You know your the most closed minded person I ever met. I had enough of you and your ranting. If you think for one second that knowledge is going to get you to heaven even right knowledge then forget it. Its what you do with that knowledge in loving the person in front of you. The devil has more knowledge than anyone and probably can preach a sermon better than any saint but look at what he is. He may got the knowledge but he got no love. It’s what you do to what you have that makes you important. I don’t give a damn ( excuse my language ) about all the knowledge in the world or in the Church if you can’t love the person in front of you! I aplogize but man you got to grow up! You want to be like Jesus then learn to love. You think anyone with correct knowledge is an authority. Only if that person can love with ever knowledge he has! That’s the difference my friend. To show love, to show mercy, to give love, to give mercy. That is the real standard to live by. All the knowledge in the Church will not be worth beans unless you learn to love and to give love! I am a Greek Orthodox Christian and I do not need the likes of you to tell me who I am or who I am not. I know who I am and I do not care about your opinions unless they can edify. To be an authority on Orthodoxy is to love like our Lord Jesus and that my friend determines if you are an authority! I have enough of you and your rantings. I am sorry but someone got to say it. You want to rant then look in the mirror. Mayby someone will listen to you there. God Bless!

You have a very Protestant understanding of the Church. It’s not consistent with either Catholicism or Orthodoxy, really. If anyone is “ranting” here it is you friend. Using paragraphs might make your thoughts at least somewhat coherent. I’m sorry if I’ve rained on your parade. God bless!

 

[DavidKays]

You have a very Protestant understanding of the Church. It’s not consistent with either Catholicism or Orthodoxy, really. If anyone is “ranting” here it is you friend. Using paragraphs might make your thoughts at least somewhat coherent. I’m sorry if I’ve rained on your parade. God bless!

You haven't ruin my parade buddy. I am sorry you feel that way. You are like most of the Orthodox who will not understand that unity is so vitally important. I came on this forum to express my ernest desire for this unity. To me this is the most important event that will have to occurr and probably the most necessary. Anything else is only second class. The unity of East and West will solve all the problems of this world. That my friend is why I am close to the Catholic Church. Now if you have a problem with that then it is you and the rest of the Orthodox who are grieving God. It is you and the rest of you who bring sorrow to God. Now if my words bring out you guys in the open then so be it. If it takes the likes of you and the rest of the Orthodox to get upset with my words, I am glad! I want what God wants and believe me buddy you and the rest of the Orthodox will not stop me or Him from accomplishing what His Heart desires that is the restored relationship of His Church, East and West. I for one will like to see this accomplished in my lifetime. This restoration will finally defeat the devil and put him to shame for splitting this church in the first place. This restoration is vital so vital that the future of the world depends on what we do. I for one will work diligently to bring this about and if it takes alot of abuse from you Orthodox then so be it. I rather listen to God then you guys and when you see this accomplish the unity of our Churches then lets see who worked for it and who worked against it and to put to shame those who decided against the wishes and desires of our God. God Bless!

 

[Aramis]

That is difficult to believe.
When you converted to Catholicism, did you retain the exact same views you had while you were Orthodox on the following:
the infallibility of the Pope
the supreme jurisdiction of the Pope
indulgences
Purgatory
the Immaculate Conception
Mortal sin and venial sin

Keep in mind: Marduk came from Oriental Orthodoxy (Coptic Orthodox), Not Eastern Orthodox.

Orthodox ≠ Eastern Orthodox alone

 

[antgaria]

That is difficult to believe.
When you converted to Catholicism, did you retain the exact same views you had while you were Orthodox on the following:
the infallibility of the Pope
the supreme jurisdiction of the Pope
indulgences
Purgatory
the Immaculate Conception
Mortal sin and venial sin

In going from Assyrian Church to the Chaldean Church of the East {Catholic}, I did not have to change any of my beliefs in those regards.

 

[sidbrown]

In going from Assyrian Church to the Chaldean Church of the East {Catholic}, I did not have to change any of my beliefs in those regards.

I am interested to know what your belief is in the infallibility of the Pope of Rome?

 

[Hesychios]

Hello Antgaria,

In going from Assyrian Church to the Chaldean Church of the East {Catholic}, I did not have to change any of my beliefs in those regards.

Out of curiosity and a desire to be better informed, I would like to ask you (if I may ) to be more specific. Was this because …

• … you were already taught in the ACE identical beliefs to what Latin Catholics believe,
• … your bishop/priests told you it is OK to differ on these points, or
• was it possibly because the subjects were not addressed at the time of your conversion?

Specifically, I would be pleased if you could help me understand what you as an Assyrian Church of the East member were taught (at the time) on the following topics (I changed the list slightly) …

1. • First (or Original) Sin of Adam and Eve
   • Purgatory
   • Indulgences
   • the Immaculate Conception of Saint Mary
   • The infallibility of the bishop of Rome when proclaiming dogma ex cathedra
   • The universal jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome
   I only ask these things because I know very little about your church.
   
   Also, (a bit off topic … ) out of curiosity I wondered if your community under Mar Bawai Soro was accepted as a separate eparchy by the bishop of Rome or was it placed under the Eparchy of Saint Peter the Apostle under bishop Jammo?
   
   God bless you on your spiritual journey.
   
   Thanks in advance,

 

[antgaria]

Hello Antgaria, Out of curiosity and a desire to be better informed, I would like to ask you (if I may ) to be more specific. Was this because …

• … you were already taught in the ACE identical beliefs to what Latin Catholics believe,
• … your bishop/priests told you it is OK to differ on these points, or
• was it possibly because the subjects were not addressed at the time of your conversion?

Specifically, I would be pleased if you could help me understand what you as an Assyrian Church of the East member were taught (at the time) on the following topics (I changed the list slightly) …

1. • First (or Original) Sin of Adam and Eve
   • Purgatory
   • Indulgences
   • the Immaculate Conception of Saint Mary
   • The infallibility of the bishop of Rome when proclaiming dogma ex cathedra
   • The universal jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome
   I only ask these things because I know very little about your church.
   
   Also, (a bit off topic … ) out of curiosity I wondered if your community under Mar Bawai Soro was accepted as a separate eparchy by the bishop of Rome or was it placed under the Eparchy of Saint Peter the Apostle under bishop Jammo?
   
   God bless you on your spiritual journey.
   
   Thanks in advance,

1. 
   Hi Hesychios and sidbrown,
   
   The main reason why I didn’t have to change much in terms of beliefs is because the faith of the ACE was the same in substance. For example, with Mary, and her being immaculately conceived, the purity of the blessed virgin was never in question, and the Church of the East had much in liturgical language and popular devotion. So understanding that the “Immaculate Conception” was stating something we took for granted.
   
   I guess it is as Mardukm was pointing out, it is a matter of understanding what Catholic teaching teaches rather than what others say it does.
   
   The headship of the pope is expressed in our liturgical hymns. In terms of papal infallibility, I will have to write out a better response later since I am quite sleepy at the moment. I just wanted to tell you about my delay and assure a slightly more detailed response coming up.
   
   In terms of Church unity, our parishes merged in to local Eparchiy, which means that in California, we came under the Eparchy of Saint Peter the Apostle under bishop Jammo,
   
   Regards,
   Anthony

 

[dvdjs]

The main reason why I didn’t have to change much in terms of beliefs is because the faith of the ACE was the same in substance. For example, with Mary, and her being immaculately conceived, the purity of the blessed virgin was never in question, and the Church of the East had much in liturgical language and popular devotion. So understanding that the “Immaculate Conception” was stating something we took for granted.

Beautiful.

 

[gmcbroom]

I think Antgaria’s experience is an excellent example of going from one Eastern church to another. The beliefs are very close. The true difficulty would be going from Eastern or even Orthdox to Roman Catholic. Not that the Roman Church is in any way bad, just different in its a Western philosphy and the other is an Eastern one. The message is the same, its just one side felt the need to analize it and the otherside treats it as a great mystery where there is no need to analize it. At least thats my opinion.

 

[EastOrthCath]

gmcbroom,

I think you are absolutely correct in that there are two different philosophies at work governing the differing developments of the Orthodox east and (Latin) Catholic church in the west.

Take (for example) the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos and the concept of purgatory – both are Latin Catholic dogmas, but interestingly much of their support comes originally from Orthodox (Eastern) theology. The Orthodox just never felt a need to go a step further to codify such teachings. I’ve heard that the teaching of the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos uses largely Orthodox/Eastern patristic fathers for its support, just those same church fathers never felt the need to take it a step further and put forth the Immaculate Conception. We Orthodox also have some theology similar to purgatory, though we certainly don’t call it that. (Anyone interested, just read some Orthodox teaching on the “toll houses” and the disagreement even among Orthodox on that subject. At an Orthodox funeral, just have a listen to the prayers said by the grave, and you’ll hear a lot of what sounds like purgatory of the Latin catholics.)

Essentially, the Orthodox/Eastern theology is much more comfortable with mysticism, with living in paradox, with not needing our faith to conform to our rational/logical mind. For Latin/Western Catholics, my experience teaches me that this drives most of you nuts.

Take, for example, marriage annulments. Orthodox do not have them, yet we are practical and realize that mistakes happen and often the first marriages do not stick. 2nd marriages are permitted on a case-by-case basis, yet he/she who has a 2nd marriage is not considered to be living in adultery even though their 1st marriage was not annuled – how this is so is a mystery, but it happens nevertheless. Logical Latins don’t like this and developed annulments to make the 1st marriage disappear, or never exist. To Orthodox, annuling a marriage that existed (often for many years) and may even have produced children in order to allow things to logically fit together makes no sense and is a bit silly.)

Same thing with the Eucharist – in the Orthodox mind, how does it become the body and blood of Christ? Well, it just does, by the Holy Spirit, no further explanation necessary. For the Latins, there is a detailed theory of transubstantiation. Different approaches to the same thing.

These are very different approaches to Christianity, and my guess is that these differing approaches are at the root of our failure to go back into unity. And sadly, I think it’s at the continued root of our inability to understand each other.

But practically speaking, all of the above aside, the only true barriers to serious discussion of Orthodox/Catholic unity are Papal infallability ex cathedra and universal Papal supremacy over all of his brother bishops – these two things are inconsistent with historical, apostolic, true Christianity as far as the Orthodox are concerned. The primacy of the Pope (“first in honor,” “first among equals”) is not an issue, and most Orthodox are in agreement on that one. All the other stuff – the immaculate conception, purgatory, etc. – is minor stuff that is not so much a barrier to unity but more differing approaches to the same thing.

 

[sidbrown]

gmcbroom,

I think you are absolutely correct in that there are two different philosophies at work governing the differing developments of the Orthodox east and (Latin) Catholic church in the west.

Take (for example) the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos and the concept of purgatory – both are Latin Catholic dogmas, but interestingly much of their support comes originally from Orthodox (Eastern) theology. The Orthodox just never felt a need to go a step further to codify such teachings. I’ve heard that the teaching of the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos uses largely Orthodox/Eastern patristic fathers for its support, just those same church fathers never felt the need to take it a step further and put forth the Immaculate Conception. We Orthodox also have some theology similar to purgatory, though we certainly don’t call it that. (Anyone interested, just read some Orthodox teaching on the “toll houses” and the disagreement even among Orthodox on that subject. At an Orthodox funeral, just have a listen to the prayers said by the grave, and you’ll hear a lot of what sounds like purgatory of the Latin catholics.)

Essentially, the Orthodox/Eastern theology is much more comfortable with mysticism, with living in paradox, with not needing our faith to conform to our rational/logical mind. For Latin/Western Catholics, my experience teaches me that this drives most of you nuts.

Take, for example, marriage annulments. Orthodox do not have them, yet we are practical and realize that mistakes happen and often the first marriages do not stick. 2nd marriages are permitted on a case-by-case basis, yet he/she who has a 2nd marriage is not considered to be living in adultery even though their 1st marriage was not annuled – how this is so is a mystery, but it happens nevertheless. Logical Latins don’t like this and developed annulments to make the 1st marriage disappear, or never exist. To Orthodox, annuling a marriage that existed (often for many years) and may even have produced children in order to allow things to logically fit together makes no sense and is a bit silly.)

Same thing with the Eucharist – in the Orthodox mind, how does it become the body and blood of Christ? Well, it just does, by the Holy Spirit, no further explanation necessary. For the Latins, there is a detailed theory of transubstantiation. Different approaches to the same thing.

These are very different approaches to Christianity, and my guess is that these differing approaches are at the root of our failure to go back into unity. And sadly, I think it’s at the continued root of our inability to understand each other.

But practically speaking, all of the above aside, the only true barriers to serious discussion of Orthodox/Catholic unity are Papal infallability ex cathedra and universal Papal supremacy over all of his brother bishops – these two things are inconsistent with historical, apostolic, true Christianity as far as the Orthodox are concerned. The primacy of the Pope (“first in honor,” “first among equals”) is not an issue, and most Orthodox are in agreement on that one. All the other stuff – the immaculate conception, purgatory, etc. – is minor stuff that is not so much a barrier to unity but more differing approaches to the same thing.

I was told that Orthodox do not accept Catholic baptism and all other Catholic Sacraments. So the Catholic Pope, Catholic bishops, Catholic priests are just unbaptised lay people in the eyes of the Orthodox Church.