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Theo520
Guest
I think there is a huge difference in how opponents read that hat/slogan.
Dems seem to think it says “TRUMP” on the hat
Most GOP seem to read “MAGA” which is just a patriotic campaign slogan, not really about trump
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Dems seem to think it says “TRUMP” on the hat
Most GOP seem to read “MAGA” which is just a patriotic campaign slogan, not really about trump
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twf
Guest
Perhaps you should ask the Holy Father as that is his terminology.
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twf
Guest
I did watch it. I still think it’s vulgar for a priest to so openly praise a secular politician, especially one whose personal public history is so at odds with Christian virtue. Praising pro-life actions is fine, but wearing the hat while displaying a huge portrait of the president behind you just strikes me as distasteful for a priest.
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twf
Guest
The big poster of Trump displayed behind Father makes it very clear that the slogan is about the man Donald Trump.
I think abortion is the greatest evil on the planet. I applaud any pro-life actions. That doesn’t change the fact that I find Donald Trump’s public actions and words, over the decades up until the present day, to often be vile and completely contrary to Christian values. I hope Father speaks to that and criticizes Trump when appropriate.
I think abortion is the greatest evil on the planet. I applaud any pro-life actions. That doesn’t change the fact that I find Donald Trump’s public actions and words, over the decades up until the present day, to often be vile and completely contrary to Christian values. I hope Father speaks to that and criticizes Trump when appropriate.
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blackforest
Well-known member
I agree with progressive critics that the MAGA message comes with a lot of baggage. But notwithstanding that assessment, it’s empty sloganeering.
Make America great again? Specifically when was it great? My undergraduate degree is in history, and I don’t recall ever learning about this flawlessly idyllic era.
blackforest
Well-known member
I have vociferously defended the Covington teens. Believe it or not, it’s possible to do without the MAGA ball and chain attached.
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Victoria33
Guest
We landed on the moon, if you don’t want to call that great, fine. I do. We have had great moments, we are flawed, all countries are flawed but we have done great things, we gave I believe, the lives of over half a million men to beat back Nazism and Imperial Japan. We and our allies defeated Nazi Germany. Again, if one wants to say that is not great, they are welcome to their opinion.
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Victoria33
Guest
I hardly call an administration that has enacted pro-life measures and pride in America a ball and chain. That sounds rather discriminatory. It’s quite a step up from the Obama years. Obama himself voted 4 times against the BAIPA (Born Alive Infant Protection Act, Illinois version, which would have protected babies surviving abortion). I don’t consider that great.
I don’t consider high unemployment as a badge of honor either.
I believe when race relations were better, that is a good thing. Those dropped under Obama as well so I’m not sure why one is slamming MAGA so much. Your words, if I may say so, sound outright discriminatory:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyDuFxEU8AAbO4y.jpg:large
What is not great are some of the laws showing the barbarians are at the gate, in the Northwest, in California, in New York but here some are criticizing Trump and Pavone.
Lets’ not forget, someone accused Father Pavone of co-opting the MAGA movement so I find that absurd.
Calling something a “ball and chain”, intentional or not, seems to acquiesce to some who would hate conservatives no matter what. They had us because they don’t think like us. This would be the same for any Republican or Conservative who is president, if it was GW Bush, Dr. Ben Carson and so on down the line.
Oh, you are talking about others judging and doing it again. Interesting opinion.
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Theo520
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What I’m seeing in this thread is that MAGA is a trigger for Trump Derangement Syndrome.
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JohnR77
Guest
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Thank you for re posting all these Quotes from Victoria 33. They are quite insightful. Good questions that others really don’t want to answer.
John
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gracepoole
Guest
Absolutely false. In various threads, others have answered them. They’re repeated because it’s easier to assault other posters with whom you disagree than to actually respond to their arguments.gracepoole:
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Thank you for re posting all these Quotes from Victoria 33. They are quite insightful. Good questions that others really don’t want to answer.
John
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gracepoole
Guest
I most definitely have not claimed that any Catholic is more or less committed to the pro-life movement because he or she agrees or disagrees with MAGA or Trump. Can you say the same?
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Victoria33
Guest
I don’t agree with your phraseology. Sometimes, what people say seems more aimed at stifling conversation. Perhaps you are not comfortable with the discussion.
For someone who brings up the death penalty and torture when abortion is mentioned, your views are interesting to hear. But I don’t look at any member who is sort of making their own theology to necessarily be the one I will look to for guidance on Catholic theology.
You are making this a personal matter, it is totally legitimate to wonder if people are solidly pro-life if who they are criticizing more is Father Pavone or President Trump when both have worked hard for the pro-life cause and have been praised by pro-life leaders. I will say some of that praise is measured.
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gracepoole
Guest
You make it a personal discussion for others when you inquire how they vote, whether they pray rosaries for an end to abortion, whether they protest, etc. I’m comfortable here but I certainly understand why others wouldn’t be.
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Victoria33
Guest
Excuse me, if Trump has enacted pro-life measures, I applaud him for it. It’s not a perfect record. If I applaud Father Pavone for his pro-life actions, so be it. For all of your discussion about accusations, your words on this forum of Father Pavone do not appear to flatter him so I question your remarks, you seem to be the judgemental one. I have only asked questions if others are pro-life truly, you are the one making judgements. Your opinion seems to be saying, criticize Trump, criticize Father Pavone but don’t anyone dare question our own motivations.
Most, every pro-lifer I know is happy about the accomplishments of the Trump administration, even Lila Rose at live action though, in some of these cases, there is caution as well. I do not find your statements of any constructive value with all due respect. You seem to do nothing but put the president down, I believe you also found Susan Blaise Ford credible in testimony against Judge Kavanaugh. Susan Blaise Ford is no friend of the pro-life movement; and any fair evaluation of her testimony found it lacked total credibility.
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Annie
Guest
I think you make a good point. So many of us were raised to act with decorum, to measure our words and never to be offensive. “Preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words”? We certainly wouldn’t want to be like those Jesus freaks that used to be on campus actually proclaiming the Gospel. We wouldn’t want to cause division! Oh, no! So we go along getting along, not making waves.
And this puts us in a position to be bullied by people with whom we disagree. We are quiet in order to keep the peace. We are decorous, so everyone knows we are classy, not like those other people who make noise and discomfort people.
I wonder if a good deal of the criticism leveled against Trump’s style might not just be snobbery? And it is a very bad sort of snobbery because it leads to an utter lack of discernment among ideas, among actions, even among people. It results in a flattening-out of everything, as described by John Rao where he points out that the only thing binding us together in the US is commercialism, and everything must bow down to it.
I do not think Trump has always behaved well. Certainly many of his interactions with women have been immoral, but simply on a somewhat bigger scale than what we see on tv all the time. He certainly did not deviate from (ETA: bad) standard business practices.
But he does speak his mind, clearly, without obfuscating euphemisms. That is a virtue in my book.
How can Trump come in for more criticism than Obama from Catholics? What do we think abortion really is? Obama’s main activity politically before becoming President was his work against taking care of babies born despite the attempt to kill them. He was completely and totally against the Babies Born Alive Act in Illinois, even the version accepted by the National Abortion Rights Action League.
And we go on and on about a private, “humorous” conversation Trump had.
And this puts us in a position to be bullied by people with whom we disagree. We are quiet in order to keep the peace. We are decorous, so everyone knows we are classy, not like those other people who make noise and discomfort people.
I wonder if a good deal of the criticism leveled against Trump’s style might not just be snobbery? And it is a very bad sort of snobbery because it leads to an utter lack of discernment among ideas, among actions, even among people. It results in a flattening-out of everything, as described by John Rao where he points out that the only thing binding us together in the US is commercialism, and everything must bow down to it.
I do not think Trump has always behaved well. Certainly many of his interactions with women have been immoral, but simply on a somewhat bigger scale than what we see on tv all the time. He certainly did not deviate from (ETA: bad) standard business practices.
But he does speak his mind, clearly, without obfuscating euphemisms. That is a virtue in my book.
How can Trump come in for more criticism than Obama from Catholics? What do we think abortion really is? Obama’s main activity politically before becoming President was his work against taking care of babies born despite the attempt to kill them. He was completely and totally against the Babies Born Alive Act in Illinois, even the version accepted by the National Abortion Rights Action League.
And we go on and on about a private, “humorous” conversation Trump had.
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Ardent_Fire
Guest
So people aren’t allowed to express any reservations at all? That makes us “triggered”?
I understand both sides of the coin here. I come from a Republican family and generally don’t really have a problem with most Trump supporters. (I live overseas and was too sick to vote. I wouldn’t have voted for Hillary and I’ll leave it at that) I certainly don’t think they’re everything that the left makes them out to be and if I’m going to take a side with what happened in DC, I’m siding with those kids from Covington. People had no business going in on that school like that.
I just have reservations about clergy becoming too heavy on secular political endorsement. I think it’s a distraction. If people don’t think that’s what Father Pavone is doing, so be it. I’m not going to get into extended arguments trying to change people’s minds.
I understand both sides of the coin here. I come from a Republican family and generally don’t really have a problem with most Trump supporters. (I live overseas and was too sick to vote. I wouldn’t have voted for Hillary and I’ll leave it at that) I certainly don’t think they’re everything that the left makes them out to be and if I’m going to take a side with what happened in DC, I’m siding with those kids from Covington. People had no business going in on that school like that.
I just have reservations about clergy becoming too heavy on secular political endorsement. I think it’s a distraction. If people don’t think that’s what Father Pavone is doing, so be it. I’m not going to get into extended arguments trying to change people’s minds.
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Wampa
Guest
I just watched the video. I went into it expecting a lot more over-the-top partisanship, based on the visual setting, comments posted here, and my own prior observations of Fr. Pavone and LifeSiteNews, who hosted the video.
I have to be honest, that was surprisingly balanced. The second half of the video is actually a defense of democracy and free speech. He urges people to speak up for any issue or politician they believe in, and he was clear that most of what he was talking about applied to both sides. He urged people on both sides not to judge the other side rashly.
I was impressed - that was not what I was expecting at all.
I have to be honest, that was surprisingly balanced. The second half of the video is actually a defense of democracy and free speech. He urges people to speak up for any issue or politician they believe in, and he was clear that most of what he was talking about applied to both sides. He urged people on both sides not to judge the other side rashly.
I was impressed - that was not what I was expecting at all.
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blackforest
Well-known member
Exactly. Making MAGA a meaningless phrase. We’re great TODAY, even. And yet we’re not.
I like the pro-life measures. I don’t like a lot else. Not everything is black and white.
And you don’t have to wear a MAGA hat or even wear a Trump hat to support the Covington teenagers.
How? It’s a criticism. Get used to those in political discussions.
I did. I’m the one who said it. Why do you find that so offensive that you keep alluding to it in multiple threads as though I’ve committed some egregious sin? Pavone co-opted, i.e. appropriated, the MAGA movement for the pro-life cause and to defend the teenagers harassed at the Lincoln Memorial. It’s a nothing scandalous - just a statement of fact. But it’s not a wise decision, either.
No. That doesn’t even come close to what I’m arguing. It is a criticism of taking one cause and attaching strings to it. Beliefs don’t have to come packaged together like Lunch-ables. I’m seeing perturbing levels of black-and-white thinking in this thread.
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Victoria33
Guest
MAGA is like a ball and chain and Father Pavone co-opted MAGA.?
How is one co-opting a movement? By wearing a hat? That’s laughable. If politicians who enact pro-life measures are not in turn shown some appreciation for doing so, that is rather incredulous if one thinks they should be shown no gratitude. These victories may not come often, we saw 8 years go by under Obama. I just posted an article on how Virginia, the state was trying to pass a bill that would have even allowed abortion during labor. Those are things I find outrageous but I can only speak for myself. That could await the whole USA, I would have much more outrage about something like that rather than the hat someone is wearing.
The video is entitled “Father Frank Pavone defends the Covington Youth” (?)
The video as shown, is not some over the top cheer leading for Trump, it is a balanced approach.
This tweet from the Susan B. Anthony list discusses that Virginia bill. I certainly know which is more outrageous and I think Father Pavone and President Trump for standing up against this immorality.
How is one co-opting a movement? By wearing a hat? That’s laughable. If politicians who enact pro-life measures are not in turn shown some appreciation for doing so, that is rather incredulous if one thinks they should be shown no gratitude. These victories may not come often, we saw 8 years go by under Obama. I just posted an article on how Virginia, the state was trying to pass a bill that would have even allowed abortion during labor. Those are things I find outrageous but I can only speak for myself. That could await the whole USA, I would have much more outrage about something like that rather than the hat someone is wearing.
The video is entitled “Father Frank Pavone defends the Covington Youth” (?)
The video as shown, is not some over the top cheer leading for Trump, it is a balanced approach.
This tweet from the Susan B. Anthony list discusses that Virginia bill. I certainly know which is more outrageous and I think Father Pavone and President Trump for standing up against this immorality.
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