Father Michael Pfleger

[childofmary1143]

Main Entry: 4snuff
Function: verb
Etymology: akin to Dutch snuffen to sniff, snuff – more at SNIVEL
transitive verb
1 : to draw forcibly through or into the nostrils
2 : SCENT, SMELL
3 : to sniff at in order to examine –
intransitive verb1 : to inhale through the nose noisily and forcibly; also : to sniff or smell inquiringly
2 obsolete : to sniff loudly in or as if in disgust
3 : to take snuff

Now granted this word “snuff” has SIX different meanings. I was at the rally at the gunshop…so was the Mayor of Riverdale…so was the police Chief…so were all of the major news stations…so were 300 people. You may not like Pfleger,but he ain’t STUPID! !! The purpose of the march was to protest the fact that a bunch of guns involved in murders in Chicago have been traced back to this shop.What sense does it make to call for the murder of someone at a rally protesting murder!!? DUH!!! …WITH THE PRESS,MAYOR,AND CHIEF OF POLICE THERE!!! Are YOU that slow!!? How many people do you know that would make an announcement BEFORE they murder someone!!? C’mon…:doh2: .that’s NOT rocket science!! “Hey I’m getting ready to rob this bank.Make sure the press knows about it before hand…” DUH!!.. Ask the people in the neighborhood where Pfleger lives how THEY feel about him.Have you even been there,or is it too dangerous “over there”? See as long as the problem isn’t in my livingroom then it’s not my problem.

The more I hear “CHURCH” people,the more I’m convinced that if Christ came back today the CHURCH people would kill him again because “HE doesn’t fit the mold of a savior…” “He doesn’t follow the rules…” …yeah neither did Martin Luther, OR Martin Luther King. If the desenters followed the rules in England ther would be no U.S.A.!! Jesus didn’t “Follow the rules”!! That’s what got him killed the first time!!! …and the CHURCH PEOPLE (synagogue) were the ones who did it!!

THIRTY KIDS have been killed THIS SUMMER,and it’s not even JULY!!!..not that’s your concern. Now if you’re a person of reason then what I’m saying will make sense,but if not then nothing ANYONE says will make a difference.So the issue isn’t what Pfleger said,but the fact that you didn’t care for him before he said ANYTHING! …That’s personal,and has nothing to do with what he said,or ment. What goes around comes around. The next time you want understanding and don’t get it…figure it out. Another thing,from the standpoint of the people who live in what YOU call the ghetto,this isn’t a political issue…it’s these peoples’ kids issue!! LIVES!! Now if the politicians get involved then so be it,but to he people that REALLY have to face this situation…politics has nothing to do with it!! That’s for the people watching it on TV. Those poor negros. Pfleger isn’t in jail because you can’t go to jail for something the NRA “interprets” as a threat. It’s illegal to walk up to a man and shoot him,but you CAN assainate him by word of mouth and not feel bad about it… Sad. It’s really sad that we’ve come to the time when kids getting killed,of ANY race,is almost common place.,and the “salt” of the earth is apathetic to it.:tsktsk: and the fuss is between guns and the preservation of a kids safety.

Here is another definition of snuff which you didn’t mention:

snuff out,
a. to extinguish: to snuff out a candle.
b. to suppress; crush: to snuff out opposition.
c. Informal. to kill or murder: Many lives were snuffed out during the epidemic.

As to the psychology of the Criminal mind perhaps you should realize that some people are dumb criminals. Its something that anyone can search out.

If the Gun shop owner is guilty of the crimes as you allege and since the Police chief was there at that rally, then why was he negligent in his duties in not arresting the owner? Unless of course the gun shop owner didn’t break any laws and shouldn’t be targeted if he is obeying the law.

I can’t speak for others but I really don’t give a dam* what you think of “Church People”.

 

[Bennie_P]

The reason I still say this is more about politics then Fr Pfleger being a proper priest (which even in my mind is debatable), and is an attempt of the gun lobby to shut him down. Take a look at this link to find out why Chuck’s Gun Shop is targeted for protest,
Number of Guns Sold. Traced To Crime
Notice which shop is on top of the list in the nation?
This is just over a four year period

I believe many good Catholics are concerned by what was reported to be said by Fr. Pfleger, myself included. But this push against him is more about the media and gun lobby trying to shut down his voice and political involvement over the issue of guns and violence which affect his parish.
St Sabina’s is just 10 miles from Chuck’s Gun Shop

 

[Andy_K]

Once again, the lack of charity in threads dealing with Fr. Pfleger is astounding. As for my take on the matter, those who claim that Fr. Pfleger would know that “snuff” means “to kill” because he is so “streetwise” should certainly know better. The slang of the inner-city Chicago neighborhoods that St. Sabina’s caters to does not employ the word “snuff” as a synonym for murder or killing.

Furthurmore, I seem to sense an understandable attitude of animosity towards Fr. Pfleger and/or his general lack of a truly Catholic ministry at his own parish. Concerns over these matters are certainly legit, as posters have noted, but as the posters from the Chicago land area especially have noted, this is no excuse for unjustly arresting him. It seems very clear that he did not mean to literally kill the owners or patrons of the gun shop in question.

It is also interesting, as others have noted, how this not only acts a good excuse for the gun lobby to “snuff” him out of the picture (oh no I didn’t and for hardline Catholics to hopefully get some change down ata St. Sabina’s. For the record, I concur with those who have said that Fr. Pfleger seems to be fostering an essentially Protestant identity at St. Sabina’s that ignores Catholic teaching in many regards. If we are to do something substantive about his various abuses at his parish, however, let us do so with honest evidence about his pastoral and liturgical wrongdoings, rather than a vague and frankly (pardon me if my lack of charity is now showing ) almost insidious method of removing him. This gun charge isn’t going to cut the mustard, nor should it.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

…DUH!!! …WITH THE PRESS,MAYOR,AND CHIEF OF POLICE THERE!!! Are YOU that slow!!? How many people do you know that would make an announcement BEFORE they murder someone!!? C’mon…:doh2:

***That certainly appears to be rude of you! ***

And anything that is done by the group of protestors in question would not surprise me. They all seem to be publicity hounds. They claim they are the only ones who know best, and they will “take care” of the poor, beknighted souls of their areas. Anybody who has another opinion tends to get screams, and now threats of violence against his person.

The more I hear “CHURCH” people,the more I’m convinced that if Christ came back today the CHURCH people would kill him again because “HE doesn’t fit the mold of a savior…” “He doesn’t follow the rules…” …yeah neither did Martin Luther, OR Martin Luther King. If the desenters followed the rules in England ther would be no U.S.A.!! Jesus didn’t “Follow the rules”!! That’s what got him killed the first time!!! …and the CHURCH PEOPLE (synagogue) were the ones who did it!!

***Hmm…Isn’t Jesse Jackson a “church person”? ***

What about the “church people” who seek no glory for themselves, who day after day quietly go out and feed the poor, clothe the naked, and take care of business WITHOUT grand-standing and calling attention to themselves?

THIRTY KIDS have been killed THIS SUMMER,and it’s not even JULY!!!..not that’s your concern. Now if you’re a person of reason then what I’m saying will make sense,but if not then nothing ANYONE says will make a difference.So the issue isn’t what Pfleger said,but the fact that you didn’t care for him before he said ANYTHING! …

And you’re sure those kids were killed with legally purchased, FOID carded and Illinois registered weapons from one particular gun shop OUTSIDE of the City of Chicago? Fact is, Jesse Jackson and Father Pfleger had no business bothering Chuck’s Gun Shop, a legitmate establishment that does not sell guns “off the back of a truck”. Chuck’s is not in St. Sabina’s parish, and those factoids from the Brady organization show no scholarship, such as source.

 

[Walkerboy88]

Here is another definition of snuff which you didn’t mention:

snuff out,
a. to extinguish: to snuff out a candle.
b. to suppress; crush: to snuff out opposition.
c. Informal. to kill or murder: Many lives were snuffed out during the epidemic.

As to the psychology of the Criminal mind perhaps you should realize that some people are dumb criminals. Its something that anyone can search out.
If the Gun shop owner is guilty of the crimes as you allege and since the Police chief was there at that rally, then why was he negligent in his duties in not arresting the owner? Unless of course the gun shop owner didn’t break any laws and shouldn’t be targeted if he is obeying the law.

I can’t speak for others but I really don’t give a dam* what you think of “Church People”.

Let’s see you pillar of intelligence, I would be insulted by the remark that you don’t give a “dam” about what I think about church people.However,a wall that holds back water doesn’t seem to fit in your “damn” sentance. Now if you’re able to read my post again, I said that this word had SIX different definitions. You chose the ones you wanted to focus on,I chose the ones that make sense in this situation since I was at the rally and heard EVERYTHING he said and you only heard what the NRA and FOX wanted you to hear.

I NEVER mentioned anything about the gunshop owner being guilty of ANYTHING. So That in itself helps me to understand the zeal in which you’re so passionate about your partial information. On top of the fact that you’re about 500 miles from where the action is further helps me understand your position. I plainly stated that alot of guns that have been involved in murders in CHICAGO…not Canada…have been traced back to this gunshop. Whoever has been supplying the guns to gangbangers and thugs in Chicago has had contact with this gunshop…and HE knows who’s purchasing these guns. In other words,one guy buys the guns…sells them to someone else who kills sombody. It’s capitalism at it’s best,but kids are dying because of it!

The police chief didn’t arrest anyone,the gunshop owner,OR Pfleger because there were no crimes committed. Americans have the right to protest.The protest was peaceful,according to the police chief,and everyone else in attendance. All of this rucus didn’t come up until the NRA issued a national press release. If you were anywhere near Chicago,you would have seen that on all of the news reports the day of the march,Pfleger wasn’t even mentioned!! The march was sponsored by RainbowPUSH,and supporters. Get ALL of the facts,not just what you hear. Call the man directly…he’s a priest…call the parrish if you want the REAL story. Again I say that is for people who are interested in the truth and reason…and take the time to search for it. :dts:

 

[Walkerboy88]

***That certainly appears to be rude of you! ***

…don’t believe everything you think you see…

And anything that is done by the group of protestors in question would not surprise me. They all seem to be publicity hounds. They claim they are the only ones who know best, and they will “take care” of the poor, beknighted souls of their areas. Anybody who has another opinion tends to get screams, and now threats of violence against his person.

Whaaa!!? Threats of violence!!? From where??! Besides,you’re “OutinChgoburbs”… I suppose YOU will take care of the poor./ .

***Hmm…Isn’t Jesse Jackson a “church person”? ***

**To some he is,others he’s not.Depends on who you ask…/**B]

---

What about the “church people” who seek no glory for themselves, who day after day quietly go out and feed the poor, clothe the naked, and take care of business WITHOUT grand-standing and calling attention to themselves?***

Those aren’t “church people”…They happen to be “Christians”.
…and if you’re refering to Pfleger in regards to “grandstanding”,he didn’t call attention to himself. If you remember correctly,the day of the protest the event was on all of the news stations.The protest was reported as a protest by Operation PUSH and supporters. Pfleger’s name wasn’t mentioned in ANY of the reports. All of this drama started 3 DAYS AFTER the event!!! All because of a notional press release by the NRA!!

And you’re sure those kids were killed with legally purchased, FOID carded and Illinois registered weapons from one particular gun shop OUTSIDE of the City of Chicago? Fact is, Jesse Jackson and Father Pfleger had no business bothering Chuck’s Gun Shop, a legitmate establishment that does not sell guns “off the back of a truck”. Chuck’s is not in St. Sabina’s parish, and those factoids from the Brady organization show no scholarship, such as source.

Again I state, alot of the guns were traced back to the gunshop. It’s capitalism at work. A legal unsuspected person purchases the guns…sells them to the gangbangers…who kill people. So in effect,I’m not guilty of the crime,I just sell the gun to the guy who does the crime…but I don’t have anything to do with that part of the story. OH YES YOU DO!!

 

[melensdad]

Main Entry: 4snuff
Function: verb
Etymology: akin to Dutch snuffen to sniff, snuff – more at SNIVEL
transitive verb
1 : to draw forcibly through or into the nostrils
2 : SCENT, SMELL
3 : to sniff at in order to examine –
intransitive verb1 : to inhale through the nose noisily and forcibly; also : to sniff or smell inquiringly
2 obsolete : to sniff loudly in or as if in disgust
3 : to take snuff

Now granted this word “snuff” has SIX different meanings.

The problem with your definition is you choose the single word “snuff” not the term used by Fr Pfleger which was “snuff out”

According to Dictionary.Com, when used as a slang phrase it means only 1 thing, KILLMain Entry: snuff out
**Part of Speech: **verb
**Definition: **kill
Synonyms: blow away, bump off, chill, dispatch, dispose of, do away with, do in, dust, grease, hit, ice, knock off, murder, off, rub out, stretch out, waste, wax, whack, zap

Call everybody’s favorite negro,Jesse Jackson!!! He and his Operation PUSH co-sponsored the rally at the gunshop.

Why bring race, especially in a potentially offensive way, into this discussion?

 

[Bennie_P]

Read Rev. Dr. Michael L. Pfleger’s response to the I.S.R.A attack

This is not only a lie, it is absurd! On Saturday, May 26, 2007 at an anti-gun rally at Chuck’s Gun Shop, I said that John Riggio of Chuck’s Gun Shop had the business listed in a trust, so that you could not find out who he is or where he lived, but that we would find it out and that we would snuff him out, as well as legislators who are being bankrolled by the N.R.A. and fighting common sense gun legislation.

• Rev. Dr. Michael L. Pfleger

Why shouldn’t we allow the Catholics in the Archdiocese of Chicago, thier Bishop, the local police take care of this matter?
PAX

 

[melensdad]

Read Rev. Dr. Michael L. Pfleger’s response to the I.S.R.A attack
. . .

First, why would we presume that the ISRA “attacked” Fr Pfleger when all it did was “respond” to the aggressive wording and march that was co-sponsored by Fr Pfleger. The use of the term “attack” in relation to the I.S.R.A.'s action is somewhat overstated There was a loud crowd outside the gunstore leveling threats at the store owner and at pro-gun politicians (we can debate exactly what the meaning of the threats were later, but even Cardinal George realized they were threats). It seems to me that you should apply “attack” to the words of Fr Pfleger, and “response” to the I.S.R.A.

Why shouldn’t we allow the Catholics in the Archdiocese of Chicago, thier Bishop, the local police take care of this matter?

Why cannot those outside Chicago discuss this issue? Fr Pfleger is attempting to use his influence to pass laws that affect both Illiniois and National laws. Apparently he is allowed to use his voice INSIDE the Archdiocese to affect people OUTSIDE of the diocese . . . but people OUTSIDE are not allowed to voice their opinions of his actions INSIDE? Hypocritical, no? YES!

Many people INSIDE and OUTSIDE the Archdiocese of Chicago question MANY of this priest’s activities and have done so for years (decades). Again, this priest brings non-Christians to speak during his masses, brings pro-abortion candidates to speak at his church, he has defied the Cardinal (actually 2 of them), etc. There are many issues that are open for discussion of exactly how Catholic (or un-Catholic) he has made his parish.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

Cardinal rebukes Pfleger for 'threat’
ARCHDIOCESE | Priest says words against gun shop owner misconstrued
June 8, 2007

BY SUSAN HOGAN/ALBACH Religion Reporter/shogan@suntimes.com
Cardinal Francis George has taken an unusual step: issuing a statement about the Archdiocese of Chicago’s activist priest, the Rev. Michael Pfleger, for comments he made at an anti-gun rally.

It is the latest episode in longstanding tensions between George and Pfleger, who have clashed over everything from doctrine to politics.

Full Story

 

[Bennie_P]

Why cannot those outside Chicago discuss this issue? Fr Pfleger is attempting to use his influence to pass laws that affect **both Illiniois and National laws. **

St Gabriel Possenti, the Patron Saint of Handgunners
Serenity is worth fighting for!
Visit the Forums for topics from tractors to Snowcats; guns, pets, debates, politics, family and Catholic life.

He has a right and duty as a priest to do what he thinks will protect and improve the welfare of the people within his parish. He has a Bishop that has the responsibilty to guide him in matters of faith that may or may not conform to the Church and Her teachings.

People are being pushed by the personal agenda of the gun lobby to hang this priest, and though we may not agree with the way he does things, he is taking care of his parish, better then many priest in other areas around the country, we should trust Cardinal George to be his Shepard not the media nor the gun lobby.

STATEMENT OF THE ARCHDIOCESE OF CHICAGO
REGARDING REMARKS MADE BY FR. MICHAEL PFLEGER

Number of Guns Sold. Traced To Crime
Notice which shop is on top of the list in the nation?
This is just over a four year period

It not againest Church teachings to want to stop violence or restrict the selling of firearms.

http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/jpg/B16_Cagrici_prayer.jpg

 

[melensdad]

He has a right and duty as a priest to do what he thinks will protect and improve the welfare of the people within his parish.

No arguement, but he was NOT WITHIN his parish. Furthermore he is trying to influence things OUTSIDE of his parish. Are people outside his parish now allowed to have the same “right and duty” to “protect and improve the welfare of the people within” our parishes too?

You can’t have it both ways! You want him to be able to step out, but don’t want anyone else to be able to step in, or for that matter to step up and even refute.

Further, you conveniently keep avoiding my questions and simply restate, differently, your opinions. Bear in mind, I believe we are each entitled to our own opinions, but I do take exception to the fact that you want to stifle my ability to speak.

BTW, the “trace” data provided has been DEBUNKED by federal authorities as statistically inaccurate on several occasions under oath. In fact the whole concept of the trace data being used for “proof” of anything has been shown to be flawed and it is even criticized by groups like the Fraternal Order of Police . . . but the Brady Campaign keeps trotting out the same old lies.

 

[Sir_Knight]

He has a right and duty as a priest to do what he thinks will protect and improve the welfare of the people within his parish. He has a Bishop that has the responsibilty to guide him in matters of faith that may or may not conform to the Church and Her teachings.

Not if it conflicts with official church teaching.

Number of Guns Sold. Traced To Crime
Notice which shop is on top of the list in the nation?
This is just over a four year period

And if they sold even ONE gun illegally, the ATF would have put them out of business. The fact that they are still in business shows that they have not broken the law. To blame them, would be the same as to hold you responsible if someone stole your car and used it to commit a crime and then held you accountable for that crime.

It not againest Church teachings to want to stop violence or restrict the selling of firearms.

Church teaching is that we have a GRAVE DUTY to defend ourselves from harm. A GRAVE duty has to be accomplished by the BEST means available. In most cases, that will be with a firearm. You can not teach that I have a grave DUTY to do something and then deny me the best means by which to do it because if you do, then the duty can not be considered GRAVE. And THAT is where the good father is in conflict with OFFICIAL Church teaching.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

.

Whaaa!!? Threats of violence!!? From where??! Besides,you’re “OutinChgoburbs”… I suppose YOU will take care of the poor./

There are “poor” in the 'burbs as well. You think certain city neighborhoods have a monopoly on it? It’s people with $$$ who live in the City. The City is too expensive for a lot of people, eps. buying property.

http://www.hesedhouse.org/

And yes, I do my part- which is more than I can see certain priests who would rather be in the spotlight than doing what needs to be done.

Those aren’t “church people”…They happen to be “Christians”.

So…those of us here who do not agree with Father Pfleger are not Christians?

**

…

and if you’re refering to Pfleger in regards to “grandstanding”,he didn’t call attention to himself. If you remember correctly,the day of the protest the event was on all of the news stations.The protest was reported as a protest by Operation PUSH and supporters. Pfleger’s name wasn’t mentioned in ANY of the reports. All of this drama started 3 DAYS AFTER the event!!! All because of a notional press release by the NRA**All because he opened his mouth and didn’t think first.

---

No arguement, but he was NOT WITHIN his parish. Furthermore he is trying to influence things OUTSIDE of his parish. Are people outside his parish now allowed to have the same “right and duty” to “protect and improve the welfare of the people within” our parishes too?

You can’t have it both ways! You want him to be able to step out, but don’t want anyone else to be able to step in, or for that matter to step up and even refute.

Agreed.

Church teaching is that we have a GRAVE DUTY to defend ourselves from harm. A GRAVE duty has to be accomplished by the BEST means available. In most cases, that will be with a firearm. You can not teach that I have a grave DUTY to do something and then deny me the best means by which to do it because if you do, then the duty can not be considered GRAVE. And THAT is where the good father is in conflict with OFFICIAL Church teaching.

Agreed. Along with complaining about people who DO protect themselves as some sort of villians, when Father Pfleger has his own set of bodyguards. To my mind, that’s pretty hypocritical of him. Why is his life more valuable than mine, or my children’s?

 

[Bennie_P]

He has a right and duty as a priest to do what he thinks will protect and improve the welfare of the people within his parish. He has a Bishop that has the responsibilty to guide him in matters of faith that may or may not conform to the Church and Her teachings.

People are being pushed by the personal agenda of the gun lobby to hang this priest, and though we may not agree with the way he does things, he is taking care of his parish, better then many priest in other areas around the country, we should trust Cardinal George to be his Shepard not the media nor the gun lobby.

STATEMENT OF THE ARCHDIOCESE OF CHICAGO
REGARDING REMARKS MADE BY FR. MICHAEL PFLEGER

Number of Guns Sold. Traced To Crime
Notice which shop is on top of the list in the nation?
This is just over a four year period

It not againest Church teachings to want to stop violence or restrict the selling of firearms.

June is Abortion and All Acts of Violence Awareness Month
**in the **
African American Community.

U.S. Crime Watch reports that 1,000 crimes involving firearms are committed every day. A greater proportion of these are crimes have occurred in the African American Community. Every day in the United States eight children alone die from a gun wound.

St Sabina’s Church is just 10 miles from Chuck’s Gun Shop
We also have a grave duty also to protect the innoncent from violence.

 

[melensdad]

St Sabina’s Church is just 10 miles from Chuck’s Gun Shop
We also have a grave duty also to protect the innoncent from violence.

Other than the threats of violence from Fr Pfleger to the owner of Chuck’s Gun Shop, what violence has occurred at Chuck’s?

If Fr Pfleger is supposed to protect the innocent from violence then perhaps he should explain to them that he is not an example they should follow since he called for violence.

 

[melensdad]

June is Abortion and **All Acts of Violence Awareness Month **
**in the **
African American Community.

Interesting, I don’t see St Sabina’s Parish or Fr Pfleger listed on the website as supporters, sponsors, etc.

I wonder if that is because he invites pro-abortion speakers to speak to his flock?

 

[chicago]

Agreed. Along with complaining about people who DO protect themselves as some sort of villians, when Father Pfleger has his own set of bodyguards. To my mind, that’s pretty hypocritical of him. Why is his life more valuable than mine, or my children’s?

Are his bodyguards armed?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Are his bodyguards armed?

http://www.saintsabina.org/ministries/armorbearers.htm

It does not not say…Nonetheless, he is allowed to protect himself, and everybody else can go jump. That’s rather a straw argument, BTW.

 

[chicago]

http://www.saintsabina.org/ministries/armorbearers.htm

It does not not say…Nonetheless, he is allowed to protect himself, and everybody else can go jump. That’s rather a straw argument, BTW.

He doesn’t say that everyone else can’t “protect themselves”. He just argues that guns are doing more harm than good, creating an easy means to deadly violence rather than self protection.