"father"

[dixibehr]

I have read the bible verse and have not seen enough evidence for debating.

That’s the the trouble.

You quote one Bible verse, say nothing about what follows it, and when I tell you, you say that I’m being untrue.

 

[Steven_John]

With the exception of wasting peoples time and stirring people up i am not sure people can do harm by taking the word literally.

 

[planten]

Read the earlier posts. You misunderstand what the prohibition means.

kalt, I hope to read all the previous posts and may understand something different to what I am understanding now. But could you kindly tell me the literal meaning of “Do not call any one your father on earth.?” What is is literally implied by these words? I need your opinion please. Thanks.

 

[planten]

Maybe we should start vetting these people so we can have some intelligent dialog.

No need yet. We may understand your way of working with words of the bibleNT. Sometime you take things literally like “I and Father are one” and sometime you would like to take symbolic meanings.

I will read all your posts again to know why you are not taking the literal meaning for the father on earth. But if you could give me some brief meaning of this riddle, it will save me a lot of trouble. Thanks.

 

[kalt]

kalt, I hope to read all the previous posts and may understand something different to what I am understanding now. But could you kindly tell me the literal meaning of “Do not call any one your father on earth.?” What is is literally implied by these words? I need your opinion please. Thanks.

You are taking things one line at a time, and you’re assuming that you can understand what is meant by looking at just that one line.

My father is a jerk.

This line is part of a longer story. Can you know what I mean by that by reading just that line.

I think that you have probably never read the NT, and you are against the Catholic Church based only on what other anti-Catholics have told you.

Read the NT for yourself.

 

[kalt]

With the exception of wasting peoples time and stirring people up i am not sure people can do harm by taking the word literally.

My father is a jerk.

Don’t you agree that someone can create havoc with that line if they don’t know the context?

Knowing the context is all important.

 

[planten]

You are taking things one line at a time, and you’re assuming that you can understand what is meant by looking at just that one line.

My father is a jerk.

This line is part of a longer story. Can you know what I mean by that by reading just that line.

I think that you have probably never read the NT, and you are against the Catholic Church based only on what other anti-Catholics have told you.

Read the NT for yourself.

**kalt, I wish you had answered my question by saying, Yes, if literal meaning are taken then christians cannot call any one a father on this earth.

That would have helped. You not only avoided to answer but you tried to accuse me of unfairplay. Nevermind, I had given you a chance in earnest to explain that business (contradiction) about the father in bibleNT. But you did not avail it. So it seems you people have no real reply**.

 

[Bill_Pick]

**kalt, I wish you had answered my question by saying, Yes, if literal meaning are taken then christians cannot call any one a father on this earth.

That would have helped. You not only avoided to answer but you tried to accuse me of unfairplay. Nevermind, I had given you a chance in earnest to explain that business (contradiction) about the father in bibleNT. But you did not avail it. So it seems you people have no real reply**.

PLANTEN,Please take your time and read all of this answer===On occasion you will encounter one of our separated brethren who will criticize Catholics because they call their priest “father” citing Matthew 23:9: “And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, who is in heaven.” (KJV). If one takes this passage literally and out of the context in which it is used in the Bible, this might seem to be a fair criticism.

What does this individual call their male parent? Daddy? Papa (which, incidentally, is Italian for Pope)? When they fill out a credit application, what do they put in the block which asks for their father’s name – God? Obviously, there is a meaning of this scriptural passage other than the literal one; this meaning is called the contextual meaning. In Matthew 23:9, Jesus is taking the Pharisees to task for requiring the people to perform rigorous tasks while avoiding these tasks themselves. The Pharisees were quick to accept places of honor and marks of public respect, but were not making the burden of the people any lighter. They were not ‘fathering’ or ‘teaching;’ they were not providing the loving example. The contextual meaning of this passage is that there is only one Creator, from whom all ‘fatherhood’ comes (Ephesians 3:14-15). We cannot claim the title of “father” or “teacher” if we do not emulate Gods’ example. This passage does not preclude addressing someone as “father” so long as it is understood that all fatherhood (both biological and spiritual) originates with God the Father. We are all members of God’s family, a fact we acknowledge every time we recite the ‘Our Father’ or the Creed.

Now let’s look at how the term “father” is used elsewhere in Holy Scripture: Paul calls himself a “father” in 1 Thessalonians 2:11: “As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father does his children.” (KJV) and again in 1 Corinthians 4:15: “For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” (KJV). In both of these passages Paul considers himself a spiritual father just as the priest is today. This same interpretation is presented by John in 1 John 2:13-14 where he says twice “I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.” (KJV). Saint Stephen, in his address to the Sanhedrin (Acts 7:1-53), calls people “father” 17 times; he became the first Christian martyr not because of this, but because he was bearing the testimony of Christ.

Finally, you might ask this individual if they are familiar with the New International Version of the Bible (a common very good modern Protestant translation). If they are, refer them to Matthew 23:10, the verse immediately after the one they quoted to you, “Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.” Even they have Sunday School teachers.Copy and paste from post #6

 

[kalt]

**kalt, I wish you had answered my question by saying, Yes, if literal meaning are taken then christians cannot call any one a father on this earth.

That would have helped. You not only avoided to answer but you tried to accuse me of unfairplay. Nevermind, I had given you a chance in earnest to explain that business (contradiction) about the father in bibleNT. But you did not avail it. So it seems you people have no real reply**.

You wish I had lied?

 

[ricko]

You can not possibly be reading the posts or you would understand.

No, the verse is not to be taken literally.

This has been proven by the many posts which show people in the bible being called Father.

Jesus was using “hyperbole”. That is like saying “Everybody talks on a cell phone today”. That statement is not to be taken literally as it is not true. There are many who do not have a cell phone. That statement is what is called “hyperbole”

You cannot read a verse out of the bible and use it to make a point if you take it out of context.

Again, if calling someone Father is forbidden then why are people called Father in the bible?

Understand?

 

[Steven_John]

My father is a jerk.

Don’t you agree that someone can create havoc with that line if they don’t know the context?

Knowing the context is all important.

I dont doubt what you are saying but you missed what i said.

With the exception of wasting peoples time and stirring people up i am not sure people can do harm by taking the word literally.

I know from your statement your Dad is a jerk.
If it is a true statement and you are blessed with the highest possible authority and that authority you are given knows my heart what harm is there from me taking it literal.

In the same light what harm can come from not calling priests Father?

 

[kalt]

I dont doubt what you are saying but you missed what i said.

I know from your statement your Dad is a jerk.
If it is a true statement and you are blessed with the highest possible authority and that authority you are given knows my heart what harm is there from me taking it literal.

In the same light what harm can come from not calling priests Father?

And you prove my point.

“My father is a jerk.”, taken out of context, leads you to the wrong conclusion.

I’ll put it in context for you.

In 1890, my great-grandfather bought an old dry goods store and converted it into a pharmacy. To compete with the other pharmacies in adjoining neighborhoods, his son, my Grandfather added a sparkling new soda fountain. He served Coca-cola, of course. But his son, my father, added something new and special that put the business on the map. My father is a jerk. My father may be the most well-known jerk in the history of pharmacy soda fountains–he invented the rootbeer float! Some day my father will take over the pharmacy from Grandfather, and I will take my father’s place as a jerk.

What harm? Are you concerned at all about being correct?

 

[planten]

You wish I had lied?

** kalt, No. never. You are trying to read my mind in a wrong (bad) manner. I asked you something in honesty but you thought I was joking with you.

Now I tell you that I did not learn anything from you about this father business and I woulod request you to follow the advice of Jesus in word and deed. Do not ever call any one a father on this earth. Thanks.**

 

[Bill_Pick]

** kalt, No. never. You are trying to read my mind in a wrong (bad) manner. I asked you something in honesty but you thought I was joking with you.

Now I tell you that I did not learn anything from you about this father business and I woulod request you to follow the advice of Jesus in word and deed. Do not ever call any one a father on this earth. Thanks.**

Did you learn any thing from Post6 or post 25,if you did not then you do not understand the bible,that may be your problem.

 

[Steven_John]

And you prove my point.

“My father is a jerk.”, taken out of context, leads you to the wrong conclusion.

I’ll put it in context for you.

In 1890, my great-grandfather bought an old dry goods store and converted it into a pharmacy. To compete with the other pharmacies in adjoining neighborhoods, his son, my Grandfather added a sparkling new soda fountain. He served Coca-cola, of course. But his son, my father, added something new and special that put the business on the map. My father is a jerk. My father may be the most well-known jerk in the history of pharmacy soda fountains–he invented the rootbeer float! Some day my father will take over the pharmacy from Grandfather, and I will take my father’s place as a jerk.

What harm? Are you concerned at all about being correct?

No you have missed

If it is a true statement and you are blessed with the highest possible authority and that authority you are given **knows my heart **what harm is there from me taking it literal.

See the authority Jesus (pbwh) holds is given by the Father who konws all and sees all.

He does not set out to entrap people as you did, that is why i put this in my post.

Even so what harm has been done, because you told me your dad is a jerk no harm was done if i met him i would love him just the same.

You did not say call my dad a jerk, and if you did i would not as you do not hold the authority of God only Jesus (pbwh) was given the pure spirit.

If you ask yourself about the bible narration we were discussing rather than creating a parallel then you would have answered the question.

With the exception of wasting peoples time and stirring people up i am not sure people can do harm by taking the word literally.

In this thread it does not work as people have said the original poster was trolling.

So better question, from my earlier post #8 am i doing harm? I do not want to trap you so please be careful in your response, you do not know my heart or our PP or any other of our priests in the diocese.

 

[geometer]

**kalt, I wish you had answered my question by saying, Yes, if literal meaning are taken then christians cannot call any one a father on this earth.

.**

It is an unspoken tradition to not call your father, father. At least that’s the way it is in Maryland. My father has passed away, and I never addressed him as father. I always called him Dad.

My grandfather called his father Dad. I have never heard anyone address their father as father, except in some movies made in the fifties. There are certain mitzvot in the Torah which forbid using the first names of your parents, maybe this is where it comes from. Parenthood is supposed to be a godly status in relation to children. Striking your parent was punishable by death.

 

[Steven_John]

Just to bat for all points of discussion for seeking pure truth.

I stated an early post was very good at explaining the context but it can be made very simple and i am sure it has b4.

Jesus (pbwh) often referred to The One True God (the deity he submitted to) as Father, taught us to do the same.

So in very simple terms did he not offer not to call anyone on earth God? (that’s context made simple)

If you are unsure of this remember some one would have had to call him Good Master and he should have responded (assuming the bible narrations are correct) Why address me like that no one is good save God.

From this you should become divided
those that assume he says he is God and those that understand no one on earth should be called God but men can be witness of God.

 

[Steven_John]

The context of a priest being a for - father in faith is often appropriate but does not always fit, if i pray for a brothers baby at baptism, and through all his sacraments, share with him all i know of God and when he is a seminarian pray God guides him and he becomes a priest how is it we know he is my for farther in faith it could be i am his for - father in faith?

Tomorrow night will be the feast of passover for christains
May God bless you as you enjoy your meal and praise God for your freedom

 

[kalt]

No you have missed

See the authority Jesus (pbwh) holds is given by the Father who konws all and sees all.

He does not set out to entrap people as you did, that is why i put this in my post.

Even so what harm has been done, because you told me your dad is a jerk no harm was done if i met him i would love him just the same.

You did not say call my dad a jerk, and if you did i would not as you do not hold the authority of God only Jesus (pbwh) was given the pure spirit.

If you ask yourself about the bible narration we were discussing rather than creating a parallel then you would have answered the question.

In this thread it does not work as people have said the original poster was trolling.

So better question, from my earlier post #8 am i doing harm? I do not want to trap you so please be careful in your response, you do not know my heart or our PP or any other of our priests in the diocese.

Entrap you? No. But you now know what we were talking about when we said that you can’t take a single line out of context and know what it means.

I think part of the problem in this thread is that English doesn’t appear to be your first language.

The OP was trolling, but the question is still good.

You have taken one line of the Bible out of context, so you can’t know the meaning, just as you couldn’t have know the meaning of “My father is a jerk.” when it’s repeated out of context.

BTW, jerk is a “soda jerk”, a person who used to work the soda fountain.

Call no man father is the same thing. You can’t take that one line and assume that you know what it means.

Are you really asking me what harm there is in misinterpreting God’s word?

Do you really think that it doesn’t matter if you get it right or not?

If you don’t feel comfortable calling anyone father, then by all means call your father Fred, John, or Hey You. But know that you aren’t doing it because of what God said, you are doing it because you don’t understand what God said.

 

[kalt]

It is an unspoken tradition to not call your father, father. At least that’s the way it is in Maryland. My father has passed away, and I never addressed him as father. I always called him Dad.

My grandfather called his father Dad. I have never heard anyone address their father as father, except in some movies made in the fifties. There are certain mitzvot in the Torah which forbid using the first names of your parents, maybe this is where it comes from. Parenthood is supposed to be a godly status in relation to children. Striking your parent was punishable by death.

We don’t address our fathers as Father, but we do say, “My father…”.

We say, “This is my father, Mr Smith”. We say, “My father will be here tomorrow.”

We start off very young, of course, and unable to talk. So our parents teach us to call them Mommy and Daddy. When we get older, Daddy sounds too babyish, so we shorten it to Dad.

There is no prohibition against calling our fathers, Father.

I knew some teenage girls who tried to look very grown up by calling their parents Mother and Father. I suspect that they had been reading some older English novels.