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Bill_Pick
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i,M NOT A Muslin Thank God
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Steven_John
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Forgive me if i am jumping in as your question was not directed at me but Passover is a very important event in the lives of Gods people and other posters have said it is not on the Christian calendar.
I did not correct this person as i wanted to avoid and argument and had already made it plain in an earlier post. Well i tried to as you may have all worked out i am not a good communicator due to my poor literacy.
I also was keen not to derail the the tread.
Holy Thursday is Passover, we share in the last supper, as Jesus (pbwh) did then spend the night in the garden with him and pray with him. We dont share in the fullness of Passover in the last supper as Jesus (pbwh) would have as a community on a whole. Some do have Passover meals in smaller groups but it would be true in my experience to say it is not the norm.
If we read the story in the OT it is big importance, it shows Gods love for us and His awesome power and might for those who submit. His awesome power and wrath on those who are against His people and see them selves above Him. What God can and does do for His people in this realm.
When we read the story we see it is pleasing to God we “re-live” it to pass it on to future generations so they understand.
While the NT shows us His awesome power and love for those who choose Him above this realm. His grace on those who are against His people but profess to be below Him. It shows us what we can do and should do to gain eternal life beyond this realm.
Now the two interpretations here and the entire story of Moses (pbuh) could be seen to be a true Islamic perspective, that is by dictionary definition, not necessarily by writings as people love to have their own interpretation and defiantly not by a western TV definition media today is agenda bias driven.
For me, people of this time have loosed the OT promise for focus on the NT story. This is why there is so much lawlessness (Gods) in my country. That is we take the NT story and become meek rather than humble. If we see both stories we get the fullness of God can do if we ask and act.
If you are very keen on Pauline readings you may decide that the old laws were abolished on the cross (this is lesser in Catholics and more in other some Christian sects) but if we live with the heart of Jesus (pbwh) we know he came sorry was sent to fulfil the law and by this we should not feel obligation but desire for the law.
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Steven_John
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Hi Bill i saw the post by steveb as directed at Planten not you.
It is worth respecting Gods presence in Muslim people as you believe that they adore the same God you do.
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Bill_Pick
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I was respescting them I said I thank God I not a muslim==My God was cruicifixion on a cross was His god ,did his god die on a cross and come back in three days. I don,t think so,Was he god married to many wifes did my God life to the age of 123 years…That is what he has been saying about my God so how can we believe in the same God
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Steven_John
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Bill you have missed it Catholics and Muslims adore the same God if you dont adore their God with real respect you either dont know the belief of the faith you claim or you are not Catholic.
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geometer
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Since it is clear jesus intended that we know God as our father, and he himself was never known as father, why would a priest insist on father as a title?
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steve_b
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There are literally hundreds of times "father is used in the OT and NT that aren’t refering to God the Father.
As an example
1 Cor 4:15
Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
- How does that happen since Paul was celebate?
- Is Paul being disobedient to Jesus command?
Jesus said
Mt 19:19
‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ "
Do your own word search for the other few hundred examples.
Obviously the interpretation by our critics is wrong.
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Steven_John
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Peace and blessings steveb,
how does this fit with the instruction Jesus (pbwh) gave that we are all brothers and not to exult ourselves. The term father for a priest in this light suggests a priest is above or before not least as a servant?
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kalt
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With Jesus we have a New Convenant. He, Jesus, is the Paschal Lamb. He is the Passover Sacrifice.
We aren’t ignoring the Passover of the Old Covenant, we are alive in the sacrifice of the New Covenant, Jesus.
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Bill_Pick
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Thank You for your opinion
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Steven_John
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I was not offering you my opinion, it is what Catholics believe and you state your religion as Catholic.
I am very involved in our Catholic parish but don’t profess to be Catholic because in some areas i have different opinions.
In relation to the Catholic belief we have been discussing the “fathers” of the Catholic faith say in the Catholic catechism says
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
May God bless and guide you as you submit unto Him
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geometer
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As to Paul, he was disobedient to the commands of Jesus in every way, and everyone uses Paul to justify their apostacy because he was the first apostate.
Jesus did not say to not use the word father, he had only said to not address anyone as father. And, I believe that is how it is in the new testament. No one is addressed as father except for God the father…
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Bill_Pick
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The person in question has said to me that Christ did not die on the cross and He lived until the age of 123 he has also said He lived until the age od 123,this is NOT my God My God die on a cross and come back to live on that Sunday,did His god do that<NO so we do not believe in the same God,does My God say if we get to heaven we will have a lot of wine and vergin to make love to,I,do not find this in my bible. Just MY opinion so I,m just like you I have a diff opinion.Pease and thank you,have a good week and may Our Lord bless you and yours
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steve_b
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Be careful of those absolutes. Consider the following
Jesus said
Luke 11:
11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
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geometer
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Jesus did not address any man as his father in the new testament. He also did not tell them to address anyone as father except for God. I do not see any contradiction in these verses…
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steve_b
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:tiphat: Thanks, much appreciated. And the same in return
sj:
Yes we are brothers, but Jesus didn’t negate authority…He specifically established it with His Church which He builds…true?
Priesthood is spiritual fatherhood. That’s how the Jews saw it and that is how the NT priesthood is understood.
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steve_b
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That’s not the point. We know who HIS Father is.
The passage is clear.
I don’t know which bible version you read from.
Here’s the KJV version of Lk 11:11
"If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? "
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geometer
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Jesus said not to call any man your father.
He used the word father. He did not bann the use of the word. I do not understand what is confusing you. The very point that Jesus made was that you should not call any man your own father. All other uses are permitted, he said nothing against those.
He was free to call any man the father of another, without contradicting himself.
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steve_b
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planten
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** If priesthood could be spiritual fatherhood then could we also conclude that relation of Father (God) with Jesus was only spiritual and not literal?? That would be no harm to me at all. I would believe that easily and happily. **
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