"father"

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You have no need to address any man as your own father, because we have one father who is in heaven.

As ordinary courtesy you do not address a superior by his functional title. When you meet the Queen of England, you don’t say “Hello, Queen.”

But this does not mean that she is not a queen, or that your father is not a father…
 
** If priesthood could be spiritual fatherhood then could we also conclude that relation of Father (God) with Jesus was only spiritual and not literal?? That would be no harm to me at all. I would believe that easily and happily. **
No. Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus, God Incarnate, both Man and God.

May God be with you
 
You have no need to address any man as your own father, because we have one father who is in heaven.

As ordinary courtesy you do not address a superior by his functional title. When you meet the Queen of England, you don’t say “Hello, Queen.”

But this does not mean that she is not a queen, or that your father is not a father…
What do you call your father?
 
If priesthood could be spiritual fatherhood then could we also conclude that relation of Father (God) with Jesus was only spiritual and not literal?? That would be no harm to me at all. I would believe that easily and happily.
Do you believe Jesus is God?
 
Jesus did not address any man as his father in the new testament. He also did not tell them to address anyone as father except for God. I do not see any contradiction in these verses…
“Which of you fathers”

If no one is a father, but we are all brothers, then who was he talking to?
 
Jesus said not to call any man your father.
He used the word father. He did not bann the use of the word. I do not understand what is confusing you. The very point that Jesus made was that you should not call any man your own father. All other uses are permitted, he said nothing against those.

He was free to call any man the father of another, without contradicting himself.
So I can admit that you have a father, but I can’t say the F word while talking about the man who … Please finish the sentence for me, because I’m not allowed to call my F…

Well, please just finish the sentence. 😃
 
** If priesthood could be spiritual fatherhood then could we also conclude that relation of Father (God) with Jesus was only spiritual and not literal?? That would be no harm to me at all. I would believe that easily and happily. **
Spiritual is real. You seem to think that spiritual means something less than corporeal, that it is something less than reality.
 
You have no need to address any man as your own father, because we have one father who is in heaven.

As ordinary courtesy you do not address a superior by his functional title. When you meet the Queen of England, you don’t say “Hello, Queen.”

But this does not mean that she is not a queen, or that your father is not a father…
We most certainly do address authority by their titles. You say, Hello, Mr. President.

I also say, Father Johns, or simply Father.

What do you call your father? Do you use any word that means father?

Or is it just “father” that bothers you.

Would it be OK if we called priests Daddy Johns?
 
I always called my father dad…
You have a father? I thought you said that no one on earth should say that anyone has a father. No one is a father to anyone else.

Should we be calling our priests Dad Fornier or Dad Scaramuzzo?
 
:tiphat: Thanks, much appreciated. And the same in return

Yes we are brothers, but Jesus didn’t negate authority…He specifically established it with His Church which He builds…true?

Priesthood is spiritual fatherhood. That’s how the Jews saw it and that is how the NT priesthood is understood.
Yes brother it is great awareness but is not wisdom you offer as men do still think they need authority, but in the fullness of the spirit it is not needed for all will submit to the One and only authority.

Many Jewish leaders were not doing so well in priesthood because the were seeing themselves as above their brothers that is why we needed teaching. That is that we are called to have a relationship with the Father, Jesus (pbwh) has interceded so we can.
They had people see them as authority, even prostitutes, tax collectors and sinners could have entered before them.
The authority given to and by Jesus (pbwh) was to be servants to be leaders.

The problem with teaching people to call priests father is in no man knows the heart of another.

No parishioner really knows the priest is in truth authority over them, if they are not then calling them father is a false witness.

Now if you are a follower of paul teaches the law is abolished by Jesus (pbwh) this would be ok but if you are aspiring to be a follower of Jesus (pbwh) who says he was sent to fulfil the law you will have issues.

The law says we are not to bear false witness.

Walk the safest way, the way in which can be no error rather than one that is rarely of error.

if you are a free man and willingly out of love want to follow the law it could be better to follow the instruction of Jesus (pbwh) and be brothers and not put an unworthy man above or before you this is in my mind part of submitting to Gods authority given through Jesus (pbwh). The way to the Father.

May God bless us all as we seek His truth in or sharing
 
have a good week and may Our Lord bless you and yours
God bless you also Brother may we be in prayer together, know and share the religion we are truly in so we do not bear false witness bringing sin to the house we are called to build up.
 
Spiritual is real. You seem to think that spiritual means something less than corporeal, that it is something less than reality.
** I do not mean any such thing. Do you mean that spiritual father is the real father and Literal (physical) father is not real father?**
 
** I do not mean any such thing. Do you mean that spiritual father is the real father and Literal (physical) father is not real father?**
Once again you’re making no sense whatsoever.

You are the one who says that no one on earth has a father, except the Father in heaven.

Didn’t you and your friends here agree that there are only brothers on earth, no father?
 
Yes brother it is great awareness but is not wisdom you offer as men do still think they need authority, but in the fullness of the spirit it is not needed for all will submit to the One and only authority.

Many Jewish leaders were not doing so well in priesthood because the were seeing themselves as above their brothers that is why we needed teaching. That is that we are called to have a relationship with the Father, Jesus (pbwh) has interceded so we can.
They had people see them as authority, even prostitutes, tax collectors and sinners could have entered before them.
The authority given to and by Jesus (pbwh) was to be servants to be leaders.

The problem with teaching people to call priests father is in no man knows the heart of another.

No parishioner really knows the priest is in truth authority over them, if they are not then calling them father is a false witness.

Now if you are a follower of paul teaches the law is abolished by Jesus (pbwh) this would be ok but if you are aspiring to be a follower of Jesus (pbwh) who says he was sent to fulfil the law you will have issues.

The law says we are not to bear false witness.

Walk the safest way, the way in which can be no error rather than one that is rarely of error.

if you are a free man and willingly out of love want to follow the law it could be better to follow the instruction of Jesus (pbwh) and be brothers and not put an unworthy man above or before you this is in my mind part of submitting to Gods authority given through Jesus (pbwh). The way to the Father.

May God bless us all as we seek His truth in or sharing
You seem to have a problem with legitimate earthly authority in general.

We don’t know the president’s heart any more than we know a priest’s heart. We don’t know a police officers heart, or our teachers’ hearts.

These are all legitimate authoritative positions in society.

You come here claiming that no one on earth has authority, yet you expect us to accept your “authority” on the subject of “father”.

Will you please take a few minutes to work out what it is you actually believe.

You’re talking in circles and are making less sense the more posts you make.
 
Once again you’re making no sense whatsoever.

You are the one who says that no one on earth has a father, except the Father in heaven.

Didn’t you and your friends here agree that there are only brothers on earth, no father?
** Sorry, you are misunderstanding. I was only quoting Jesus who said “Do not call any one father on earth.”

. Then the question arose about context etc. Now there is a discussion about literal meaning and spiritual meaning. You are saying that the priests are the spiritual fathers. I asked you about The Great God being the spiritual father of Jesus.

You have not replied properly. Try again please.**
 
** Sorry, you are misunderstanding. I was only quoting Jesus who said “Do not call any one father on earth.”

. Then the question arose about context etc. Now there is a discussion about literal meaning and spiritual meaning. You are saying that the priests are the spiritual fathers. I asked you about The Great God being the spiritual father of Jesus.

You have not replied properly. Try again please.**
kalt,On occasion you will find people like Planten who will criticize Catholics because they call their priest “father” citing Matthew 23:9: “And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, who is in heaven.” (KJV). If one takes this passage literally and out of the context in which it is used in the Bible, this might seem to be a fair criticism. But you must remember Planten is not a Christian

What does this individual call their male parent? Daddy? Papa (which, incidentally, is Italian for Pope)? When they fill out a credit application, what do they put in the block which asks for their father’s name – God? Obviously, there is a meaning of this scriptural passage other than the literal one; this meaning is called the contextual meaning. In Matthew 23:9, Jesus is taking the Pharisees to task for requiring the people to perform rigorous tasks while avoiding these tasks themselves. The Pharisees were quick to accept places of honor and marks of public respect, but were not making the burden of the people any lighter. They were not ‘fathering’ or ‘teaching;’ they were not providing the loving example. The contextual meaning of this passage is that there is only one Creator, from whom all ‘fatherhood’ comes (Ephesians 3:14-15). We cannot claim the title of “father” or “teacher” if we do not emulate Gods’ example. This passage does not preclude addressing someone as “father” so long as it is understood that all fatherhood (both biological and spiritual) originates with God the Father. We are all members of God’s family, a fact we acknowledge every time we recite the ‘Our Father’ or the Creed.

Now let’s look at how the term “father” is used elsewhere in Holy Scripture: Paul calls himself a “father” in 1 Thessalonians 2:11: “As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father does his children.” (KJV) and again in 1 Corinthians 4:15: “For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” (KJV). In both of these passages Paul considers himself a spiritual father just as the priest is today. This same interpretation is presented by John in 1 John 2:13-14 where he says twice “I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.” (KJV). Saint Stephen, in his address to the Sanhedrin (Acts 7:1-53), calls people “father” 17 times; he became the first Christian martyr not because of this, but because he was bearing the testimony of Christ.

Finally, you might ask this individual if they are familiar with the New International Version of the Bible (a common very good modern Protestant translation). If they are, refer them to Matthew 23:10, the verse immediately after the one they quoted to you, “Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.” Even they have Sunday School teachers.
 
** Sorry, you are misunderstanding. I was only quoting Jesus who said “Do not call any one father on earth.”

. Then the question arose about context etc. Now there is a discussion about literal meaning and spiritual meaning. You are saying that the priests are the spiritual fathers. I asked you about The Great God being the spiritual father of Jesus.

You have not replied properly. Try again please.**
You are quoting out of context, and so you don’t understand. If you refuse to put it in context you will never know the truth.

I think that truth doesn’t matter to you. You need to believe that it means something it doesn’t because you are against anything Catholic.

If that makes you happy, believe what you choose. You are happy being wrong, so why bother to debate the point.

You have proven to us that you don’t know the subject, and that you refuse to learn. You have made up your mind. You are wrong, and you are happy to be wrong. You don’t want to know the truth.

So why are you still here, doing nothing but repeating the same error in ever more preposterous ways?
 
I always called my father dad…
Then of course you violated the literal meaning of the scriptue to ‘call no man father.’ “Dad” is another name for “Father,” and in fact, comes closer to the meaning of the word “Abba” by which Jesus referred to his Father in heaven. (Other Jewish youngsters of the time naturally called their own fathers abba just as they called their mothers mama.)
 
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