Fatima miracle of the sun?

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Churchmouse said:
Yes, it reminds me of Jesus and Paul and how He converted a great “persecutor of the Church.” Is there anything else that I need reminding of?
CM
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How come Jesus didn’t reveil to the rest of the people who come with St. Paul? Wasn’t Jesus there with them all?
 
water said:
How come Jesus didn’t reveil to the rest of the people who come with St. Paul? Wasn’t Jesus there with them all?
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I don’t know. Everyone heard the voice, but no one saw anything with the exception of Paul. He just seems to have chosen Paul. What does this have to do with thread?

CM
 
Churchmouse said:
I don’t know. He just seems to have chosen Paul. What does this have to do with thread?

CM
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Churchmouse said:
What about everyone else other then those in this region of Fatima? What about Portugal, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, the USA, well you get the story. Last I saw we have one sun.
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Now, you should know why there was one sun, but not everybody could see how the Sun was moving at the Fatima miracle - it is God’s wish. It is like Jesus reveiling Himself to Paul but not everybody near him.
 
water said:
Now, you should know why there was one sun, but not everybody could see how the Sun was moving at the Fatima miracle - it is God’s wish. It is like Jesus reveiling Himself to Paul but not everybody near him.
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It doesn’t make any sense to me. Either the one sun danced and that one sun was seen doing so around the earth or there was mass hallucination by a bunch of folks who were seeking miracles.

CM
 
Churchmouse said:
It doesn’t make any sense to me. Either the one sun danced and that one sun was seen doing so around the earth or there was mass hallucination by a bunch of folks who were seeking miracles.

CM
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You don’t believe in miracles?
 
water said:
You don’t believe in miracles?
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Actually, I have a very healthy belief in miracles. However, I don’t believe that every miracle is of God. I think Scripture is very clear on that. Miracles aren’t uncommon amongst other religions. Light emanating from Buddhist images, Buddhist monks levitate, Ganesh statues drinking milk, Mormons speaking in tongues, Allah’s name on watermelons, eggs, and fishes, etc. Not to mention that Pharaoh’s magicians were able to recreate the miracles God did through Moses and Aaron. Again, there is “one”, just “one” sun, and the only place that it “danced” was in this little region in Fatima, while the rest of the world went about its business:shrug: . Enough said.

CM
 
Churchmouse said:
Again, there is “one”, just “one” sun, and the only place that it “danced” was in this little region in Fatima, while the rest of the world went about its business:shrug: . Enough said.

CM
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Just because other religions have something going on, you are afraid to think what might be from God. Also, you can’t use that to deny there is no miracle from God, can you?

The Church is very careful and investigate any miracle claimed.

Again, if Jesus appeared to Paul and He did not want the rest traveling along with Paul to know, then it is His decision. The same thing is with the Sun.

Don’t you think God can do such an easy thing? 😉
 
water said:
Just because other religions have something going on, you are afraid to think what might be from God. Also, you can’t use that to deny there is no miracle from God, can you?
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God does miracles. I haven’t said he doesn’t. However, I have detailed my reasons for not believing that the Fatima "miracle’ is legit in any way, form, or manner. Nothing which you’ve stated has further the cause either.
The Church is very careful and investigate any miracle claimed.
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Yes, and the RCC allows its faithful to practice their private judgment regarding Fatima. A Catholic doesn’t have to believe in this “miracle” if he/she doesn’t want to.
Again, if Jesus appeared to Paul and He did not want the rest traveling along with Paul to know, then it is His decision. The same thing is with the Sun.
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Those who were with Paul HEARD a voice (Acts 9:7). They didn’t see anything but were dumbfounded when they HEARD a voice. This is EVIDENCE. No one on earth received any EVIDENCE of a dancing sun. Again, you are worlds away in presenting a parallel.
Don’t you think God can do such an easy thing? 😉
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God can do anything He wants. He isn’t bound by us. However, as I stated earlier, not all “miracles” are of God. Fatima doesn’t foot the bill as being a legitimate miracle. I don’t buy it.

CM
 
Churchmouse said:
Actually, I have a very healthy belief in miracles. However, I don’t believe that every miracle is of God. I think Scripture is very clear on that. Miracles aren’t uncommon amongst other religions. Light emanating from Buddhist images, Buddhist monks levitate, Ganesh statues drinking milk, Mormons speaking in tongues, Allah’s name on watermelons, eggs, and fishes, etc. Not to mention that Pharaoh’s magicians were able to recreate the miracles God did through Moses and Aaron. Again, there is “one”, just “one” sun, and the only place that it “danced” was in this little region in Fatima, while the rest of the world went about its business:shrug: . Enough said.

CM
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Only GOD can perform miracles. Other are just illusions to deceive you.
 
Churchmouse said:
God can do anything He wants. He isn’t bound by us. However, as I stated earlier, not all “miracles” are of God. Fatima doesn’t foot the bill as being a legitimate miracle. I don’t buy it.

CM
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When you don’t believe, you don’t believe. However, your reasoning about the one sun doesn’t really support what you don’t believe.

Though this is private revelation and Catholics are not required to believe in it, the Church approve it because it has nothing against the teaching and the faith of Catholics.
 
Churchmouse said:
Personally, I don’t buy it. There are major differences between an eclipse and a dancing sun :), especially one described as falling and erratic. Add to this “miracle” that it was strictly isolated to this area, it makes it all the more unbelievable.

Peace,
CM
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Pope John Paul II has visited Fatima several times and by doing so, the Church has approved its authenticity. If you don’t buy it, don’t worry nobody nobody is selling it. It’s all up to you.
 
nilofc said:
Only GOD can perform miracles. Other are just illusions to deceive you.
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Does it change a thing I said? If they are “miracles” or “illusions” they are still a means to an ends. Matthew 24:24 speaks about false Christs who perform great signs and wonders and able to deceive (with the exception of the elect). 2 Corinthians 11:14 speaks of Satan as an “angel of light.” The point is the deception and not the quality of the deception.

CM
 
water said:
When you don’t believe, you don’t believe. However, your reasoning about the one sun doesn’t really support what you don’t believe.
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It isn’t my “reasoning”, it is the “reality” of the situation. There is only one sun and the only ones who saw it dance were those in this small region within Fatima. You are criticizing my comments without providing substance to the contrary.
Though this is private revelation and Catholics are not required to believe in it, the Church approve it because it has nothing against the teaching and the faith of Catholics.
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Hence, Catholics can choose to accept or reject it. It doesn’t change a thing I said.

CM
 
nilofc said:
Pope John Paul II has visited Fatima several times and by doing so, the Church has approved its authenticity. If you don’t buy it, don’t worry nobody nobody is selling it. It’s all up to you.
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The “visitation” of a Pope to a site isn’t a formal approval. The fact that Catholics are free to accept it or reject it ISN’T indicative of formal approval.

CM
 
Churchmouse said:
Sounds good, but where can I find the documentation and is it credible?

Peace,
CM
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William Thomas Walsh’s “Our Lady of Fatima.” (Doubleday, 1947). You can get a copy for like $2 on ebay. He was a distinguished historian who interviewed many witnesses (there were 70,000) and found:

– witnesses included people miles away who had no interest in the doings at the Cova (so much for mass hysteria)

– witnesses included many skeptics and atheists

– the specific time and date of the miracle was announced months in advance (which largely explains why 70,000 people were present).

Churchmouse, read Joshua chapter 10. God stopped the sun in the sky. By your reasoning, shouldn’t that miracle have been seen worldwide? Does the absence of any record of it in other cultures in other parts of the world mean that it didn’t happen? If we accept that God already performed a miracle with the sun, a miracle seen only in one part of the world, in the days of Joshua, why not again in 1917?
 
Gamera said:
William Thomas Walsh’s “Our Lady of Fatima.” (Doubleday, 1947). You can get a copy for like $2 on ebay. He was a distinguished historian who interviewed many witnesses (there were 70,000) and found:

– witnesses included people miles away who had no interest in the doings at the Cova (so much for mass hysteria)

– witnesses included many skeptics and atheists

– the specific time and date of the miracle was announced months in advance (which largely explains why 70,000 people were present).
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Realistically, it isn’t as if I’m going on ebay and buying the book. If you are privy to some of the information and if it’s not hearsay, please post the evidence here.
Churchmouse, read Joshua chapter 10. God stopped the sun in the sky. By your reasoning, shouldn’t that miracle have been seen worldwide? Does the absence of any record of it in other cultures in other parts of the world mean that it didn’t happen? If we accept that God already performed a miracle with the sun, a miracle seen only in one part of the world, in the days of Joshua, why not again in 1917?
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I responded to this earlier in the thread. There isn’t much reason to believe this passage to be literal. Many scholars believe the passage to be prose, poetical, considering its extraction from the book of Jasher.

Peace,
CM
 
Churchmouse said:
Realistically, it isn’t as if I’m going on ebay and buying the book. If you are privy to some of the information and if it’s not hearsay, please post the evidence here.
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Equally realistically, it isn’t as if I’m going to type out page after page from a book. You requested a source documenting the fact that the Fatima miracle of the sun was witnessed by skeptics and I answered your question by citing a solid published source containing eyewitness accounts from such skeptics. In any event, my typing out page after page would be a waste in light of the latter half of your post.
Churchmouse said:
I responded to this earlier in the thread. There isn’t much reason to believe this passage to be literal. Many scholars believe the passage to be prose, poetical, considering its extraction from the book of Jasher.
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If you’re unconvinced of a Biblical miracle, nothing I type could ever convince you of an extra-Biblical miracle.
 
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