Fatima NOT DOGMA

[Robert_Burns]

Fatima is not tradition.

Neither is going to Mass on the First Friday or First Saturday.

So if someone does MORE than is required thats a bad thing?

Someone prays the holy Rosary when they arent at Mass thats a bad thing.

Someone offers Masses up in reparation for Outrages , Sacrilidges and religious indifferentism thats a bad thing?

Can anyone name a single thing where Fatima DEFYS Dogma or DEFYS TRADITION?

Obviously not. Fatima calls for ADDITIONAL Voluntary Devotion in order to do battle with those who seek to destroy us. (Us as in all Catholics and our religion)

Fatima isnt Dogma it uses Dogma in its message and calls on Catholics to protect the Churches Traditions and Dogmas through Spritual Devotions like use of the Sacraments and the Holy Rosary .

 

[Robert_Burns]

Excuse me, Pope Paul VI. Roman numerals get confusing.

BTW - On May 13 1967 Pope Paul the VI Celebrated Holy Mass at Fatima. Why would he if he didnt believe in it.

 

[Robert_Burns]

What do you think of the terms Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of all graces?

That they were coined and used in the commentaries by Great Catholic SAINTS since canonized who were far holier and with greater spiritual insight than you or I. (Like De Montfort and Ligouri. )

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If we were talking about Bayside or Mejugorji I would agree , But if we are talking about Fatima or Lourdes or Guadalupe , I wouldnt.

As for whether or not it is an authentic vision do the POPES? Obviously the answer is yes. Secondly - the Church has approved them.

Now as for whether or not the Fatima Devotions supercede TRADITION or DOGMA obviously they do not and if anyone were to take the time to see what they advocate - they advocate a RETURN to Tradtion and a return to DOGMA from a world that is fast departing these very things.

Pax

Robert,
I agree with what you are saying here. No private revelation may supercede Tradition or Dogma but what do you say to people who say that the messages are binding.

Like the messages from Fatima to the pope to Consecrate Russia with the world’s Bishops and to release the Third Secrect in 1960 (I believe that was the year reqested). There are those out there, at least one is present on this forum, that state that those “commands” of the Virgin Mary are binding and as the popes did not follow either one they are in error.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Is it not possible, for Heaven to rebuke Rome?

That’s an honest question, and not meant to start a war. Obviously, Lutherans contend that all the Church of Christ is subject to admonishment, even the Pope. It is natural for us to assume the possibility that God could send the Blessed Virgin to slap us upside our head (frankly, I wish she would… it would sort out quite a few things if we received some tough maternal love in a way that couldn’t be rationalized or ignored…) if we’re drifting off into lala land. My mind even drifts to the freak tornado that knocked the cross off the top of the ELCA church, were they were collectively deliberating their latest heresy.

From a Roman Catholic perspective, is the Roman Catholic Church able to receive admonition and correction from Heaven, were it to come from so great a messenger as the Blessed Virgin? Or does the dogma of infallibility, in its various forms, innoculate Roman Catholic Christians from even hearing a corrective voice from the Queen of Heaven?

Pax.

Dear Friend,

Actually, I am thrilled by both of your posts here! If you are a confessional Lutheran - what do I do to get even a little bit of the deep spiritual insight and discernment that you so clearly have?

You have put an incredibly Catholic meaning to the message of Fatima and have prompted me to look at it in ways that I never would have, without reading your comments.

From my own understanding of the Mariology of Martin Luther - I don’t believe he would have had any difficulty believing in Fatima and its message.

Thank you for sharing your insights, Teacher in Christ!

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear Friends,

I’m Eastern Catholic and a life-long member of the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima (now known as the World Fatima Apostolate).

When I attended Catholic high school, we “Fatimites” were looked upon as “something odd” but that never deterred us!

There are also many instances of miraculous appearances of the Mother of God in Orthodoxy that are celebrated in the Calendar (together with the miraculous icons). Our Lady of Fatima also has her feast day in the Catholic calendar - what that means is that the Church acknowledges the Marian apparition as such. The Church also acknowledges many miraculous Marian images and many Saints. The point is - is the message of Fatima dogma?

No, it isn’t.

But, when we look at it, what is it about Fatima that is not what the Catholic Church already teaches and exhorts her members to do?

The Rosary and meditation on the life of Christ - recommended by many, many popes and saints.

Reparation for sins and prayer for the conversion of sinners? Very, very important in the life of the Church and our spirituality.

Prayer for the souls in purgatory? The last time I looked, this too was on our Catholic life agenda.

Observing the first Fridays and Saturdays of the month is actually an ancient practice that goes back to the Temple in Jerusalem. Wearing the scapular is a practice recommended in the Old Testament re: the fringed garment that pious Jews wear to this day (although much larger). Christian monastics wore scapulars which were a symbol of readiness to serve God, such scapulars were worn by emperors and kings, by bishops etc. Our Lord was said to have worn a similar scapular as well as His Apostles - in accordance with Jewish tradition but also as a symbol of the Messianic call to serve.

To follow the message of Fatima is to not be making an attempt at doing something outside the teaching of the Catholic Church. It is a “streamlined” way of putting into practice, in a methodical manner, the main points of Christian living.

That should be the ultimate “litmus test” about whether it should be accepted or rejected. If so, then Fatima has passed the test with flying colours.

It is, ultimately, for our own good and it has the approval of Our Lady herself.

A man was once taken to heaven by his guardian angel where he was shown the majesty of the heavenly court with all the angels and saints in their places. But as he didn’t see the Virgin Mary, he asked, “Where is she?”

The angel said, “She is not here right now but is on earth nurturing the Body of Christ which is the Church. What she did when the Lord Jesus came to earth, she still does in the persons of the members of His Body.”

Mary is the Mother of the Church and she has every right to guide us and teach us in the ways of the Lord.

When the holy shepherd girl, Benoitte Rencurel was brought up before an ecclesial commission in France for questioning regarding the apparitions of Our Lady of Laus, the Mother of God told her to tell the bishops and priests this:

“You have the power to bring down on the altars of the Churches of God my Son and our Lord and God in the Mass. But you have no such power over me. I do what I wish, when I wish and where I wish for the salvation of souls. etc.”

Again, I think we can get hung up on dogma. It is sufficient that the Church acknowledges the Marian apparition at Fatima which also means it approves the message of Fatima as being not at variance with Catholic teaching, but as supporting it.

With respect to all who especially have a devotion to Our Lady of Fatima - we must NEVER use it to berate anyone or to criticize the Church etc.

If we do, then we are acting contrary to the will of Our Lady of Fatima.

Alex

 

[WorkerPriest]

You are very kind, and I am thankful that something I offered was found of value.

Martin Luther did indeed have a very strong Marian piety… something nearly lost in the Reformation communions after his death. I shocked my parishioners a bit some time ago, when I mentioned that Luther commended the praying of the Rosary to those with solid faith in Christ. That seems to lend credence, in my mind, that he would have been quicker to grapple with Marian apparitions that have come since his death, than have Lutheran Christians over these same centuries.

I know there are many here who have a very low opinion of Martin Luther, and I won’t try to defend him in this forum (besides, it’s probably off the thread’s main topic, anyway.) But I do think that Reformation Christians must consider the sensitivity and piety of the Reformers themselves, when they encounter what seem to be valid visitations by none other than the Blessed Theotokos. To my little mind, is there any emmissary of Heaven, short of Christ Himself (who is only going to return once more…) that a Christian should receive with more humility and submission, than our Blessed Virgin Mother?

Sometimes, I wonder if the Reformation communions in general, would even have ears to hear, what she may be saying to the Churches.

Grace and peace to you.

Dear Friend,

Actually, I am thrilled by both of your posts here! If you are a confessional Lutheran - what do I do to get even a little bit of the deep spiritual insight and discernment that you so clearly have?

You have put an incredibly Catholic meaning to the message of Fatima and have prompted me to look at it in ways that I never would have, without reading your comments.

From my own understanding of the Mariology of Martin Luther - I don’t believe he would have had any difficulty believing in Fatima and its message.

Thank you for sharing your insights, Teacher in Christ!

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

You are very kind, and I am thankful that something I offered was found of value.

Martin Luther did indeed have a very strong Marian piety… something nearly lost in the Reformation communions after his death. I shocked my parishioners a bit some time ago, when I mentioned that Luther commended the praying of the Rosary to those with solid faith in Christ. That seems to lend credence, in my mind, that he would have been quicker to grapple with Marian apparitions that have come since his death, than have Lutheran Christians over these same centuries.

I know there are many here who have a very low opinion of Martin Luther, and I won’t try to defend him in this forum (besides, it’s probably off the thread’s main topic, anyway.) But I do think that Reformation Christians must consider the sensitivity and piety of the Reformers themselves, when they encounter what seem to be valid visitations by none other than the Blessed Theotokos. To my little mind, is there any emmissary of Heaven, short of Christ Himself (who is only going to return once more…) that a Christian should receive with more humility and submission, than our Blessed Virgin Mother?

Sometimes, I wonder if the Reformation communions in general, would even have ears to hear, what she may be saying to the Churches.

Grace and peace to you.

Am I completely wrong or is it so obviously the case that you are in such great possession of the Holy Spirit?! (I believe the latter!!).

Of course, it would shock so many of us to learn of the Marian piety of the Reformers. The High Church continental Lutherans and the Lutheran Catholic movement is so very inspiring in its liturgy and devotional life and I’ve come across their ministers who, in every which way, are Catholic in their understanding (one such Lutheran clergyman shocked me as I went on and on about the role of the pope - and he nodded in approval throughout!).

I feel very blessed to read your reflections and look forward to drinking from those deep well-springs of your spirituality in future!

Alex

 

[JReducation]

Dear Friends,

I’m Eastern Catholic and a life-long member of the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima (now known as the World Fatima Apostolate).

When I attended Catholic high school, we “Fatimites” were looked upon as “something odd” but that never deterred us!

There are also many instances of miraculous appearances of the Mother of God in Orthodoxy that are celebrated in the Calendar (together with the miraculous icons). Our Lady of Fatima also has her feast day in the Catholic calendar - what that means is that the Church acknowledges the Marian apparition as such. The Church also acknowledges many miraculous Marian images and many Saints. The point is - is the message of Fatima dogma?

No, it isn’t.

But, when we look at it, what is it about Fatima that is not what the Catholic Church already teaches and exhorts her members to do?

The Rosary and meditation on the life of Christ - recommended by many, many popes and saints.

Reparation for sins and prayer for the conversion of sinners? Very, very important in the life of the Church and our spirituality.

Prayer for the souls in purgatory? The last time I looked, this too was on our Catholic life agenda.

Observing the first Fridays and Saturdays of the month is actually an ancient practice that goes back to the Temple in Jerusalem. Wearing the scapular is a practice recommended in the Old Testament re: the fringed garment that pious Jews wear to this day (although much larger). Christian monastics wore scapulars which were a symbol of readiness to serve God, such scapulars were worn by emperors and kings, by bishops etc. Our Lord was said to have worn a similar scapular as well as His Apostles - in accordance with Jewish tradition but also as a symbol of the Messianic call to serve.

To follow the message of Fatima is to not be making an attempt at doing something outside the teaching of the Catholic Church. It is a “streamlined” way of putting into practice, in a methodical manner, the main points of Christian living.

That should be the ultimate “litmus test” about whether it should be accepted or rejected. If so, then Fatima has passed the test with flying colours.
Mary is the Mother of the Church and she has every right to guide us and teach us in the ways of the Lord.

When the holy shepherd girl, Benoitte Rencurel was brought up before an ecclesial commission in France for questioning regarding the apparitions of Our Lady of Laus, the Mother of God told her to tell the bishops and priests this:

“You have the power to bring down on the altars of the Churches of God my Son and our Lord and God in the Mass. But you have no such power over me. I do what I wish, when I wish and where I wish for the salvation of souls. etc.”

Again, I think we can get hung up on dogma. It is sufficient that the Church acknowledges the Marian apparition at Fatima which also means it approves the message of Fatima as being not at variance with Catholic teaching, but as supporting it.

With respect to all who especially have a devotion to Our Lady of Fatima - we must NEVER use it to berate anyone or to criticize the Church etc.

If we do, then we are acting contrary to the will of Our Lady of Fatima.

Alex

What Alex is saying here is extremely important. Because none of the messages of Fatima are new or in conflict with Revelaion, there is no reason to say that the apparition is not worthy of belief and no reason not to venerate Our Lady under the title of Our Lady of the Rosary or Our Lady of Fatima.

We have a tendency to get caught up in the details, such as: Did she make the sun dance or was this an astronimical phenomena, did the Church consecrate Russia or was the formula wrong, did she really predict this or that? None of those points have anything to do with Divine Revelation nor did she make those a requirement for salvation.

What she required for salvation was conversion, prayer, reparation and faith. Well, all of that is part of the Deposit of Faith. The fact that the Mother of God has to remind us is not contrary to the faith. Mary always points to Christ and to his Church.

Alex is also very correct in his statement that those who are devoted to Our Lady under the title, Our Lady of Fatima, do wrong by bashing those who do not have this same devotion.

I would add, that they do wrong to demand that the Church comply with the requests reported by the three children. Because those requests are not part of Revelation, the Church is free to take them under advisement. This does not mean that the requests are false or evil. It means that they are just that, requests, not mandates. All of the mandates that Christ wanted to give to the Church have been delivered through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. He does not use any other souce to govern his Church.

This does not mean that the Church cannot honor any of these requests either, since none of them are contrary to the faith. In a previous post, I mentioned Mercy Sunday. This was a request, not a madate. But it was a request that the Church could honor. Like this, there are many other requests that have been honored such as devotion to the Sacred Heart and devotion the the Blessed Sacrament. That’s how the Feast of Corpus Christi started.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Alexander_Roman]

What Alex is saying here is extremely important. Because none of the messages of Fatima are new or in conflict with Revelaion, there is no reason to say that the apparition is not worthy of belief and no reason not to venerate Our Lady under the title of Our Lady of the Rosary or Our Lady of Fatima.

We have a tendency to get caught up in the details, such as: Did she make the sun dance or was this an astronimical phenomena, did the Church consecrate Russia or was the formula wrong, did she really predict this or that? None of those points have anything to do with Divine Revelation nor did she make those a requirement for salvation.

What she required for salvation was conversion, prayer, reparation and faith. Well, all of that is part of the Deposit of Faith. The fact that the Mother of God has to remind us is not contrary to the faith. Mary always points to Christ and to his Church.

Alex is also very correct in his statement that those who are devoted to Our Lady under the title, Our Lady of Fatima, do wrong by bashing those who do not have this same devotion.

I would add, that they do wrong to demand that the Church comply with the requests reported by the three children. Because those requests are not part of Revelation, the Church is free to take them under advisement. This does not mean that the requests are false or evil. It means that they are just that, requests, not mandates. All of the mandates that Christ wanted to give to the Church have been delivered through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. He does not use any other souce to govern his Church.

This does not mean that the Church cannot honor any of these requests either, since none of them are contrary to the faith. In a previous post, I mentioned Mercy Sunday. This was a request, not a madate. But it was a request that the Church could honor. Like this, there are many other requests that have been honored such as devotion to the Sacred Heart and devotion the the Blessed Sacrament. That’s how the Feast of Corpus Christi started.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

A belated Happy St Francis’ Day to your sir!

Alex

 

[GaryTaylor]

Sort of like slavery and the Civil War were not related. Yeah right. If they had not had the private revelation, undoubtedly nobody would know their names or their lives and sacrifices, and they would not be declared Blessed. They were not declared blessed because of the private revelation, but it played a role in bringing them to the attention of the world, and the Church, for scrutiny. Just keeping it real here.

Private revelation does not add to the Deposit of the Faith. It is usually given to bring people who have strayed back to that faith. Jesus did miracles for a reason - sometimes decent people need to ‘see’. Some private revelation is like that.

Consider that Fatima’s Miracle of the Sun, witnessed by some 70,000 people, is without question the greatest miracle witnessed by the masses since the time of Jesus and the Apostles. The vast number of witnesses rules out fraud. So it happened.

The question remains, “Why?” This miracle alone makes Fatima unique. The fact that so many Catholic and non-Catholic folks know about Fatima and its secret makes it unique. The fact that the pope was publicly shot on the feast of Fatima, and it was prophesied at Fatima, makes it unique. The fact that the pope publicly consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as specifically requested at Fatima, and then Russian atheistic communism collapsed with virtually no shot being fired, as promised at Fatima, makes it unique.

In short, Fatima is unique. Of course it is not dogma, or doctrine, or part of the Deposit of the Faith.

The miracle was great. But a little known fact is that the miracle was going to be bigger (perhaps the Miracle of the Sun would have been seen by all of Europe, maybe even halting the war?) but God pulled back, (From what I remember in reading this, it was because of the way the 3 seers were being treated but not 100 percent sure on this point.)

Fatima can therefore serve as a great inspiration and reminder of the power of God, and the power of prayer, and of how much we can do when we cooperate with Him and we do as He asks.

Nobody has to believe it, but everybody should.

God bless you.

I agree, and we have to understand also that todays reality is tommorrows History. Fatima is considered by many to be the single greatest event of that century. And its a window to clearly see a truth of Christ and the Blessed Mother. Time tells no lies in history. Theres no denying what happened their. Its a reality and while its considered Private it was a Public Miracle just as Zeatoun was. Theres a bit of difference between a Miracle witnessed by One or Two, and then a Miracle witnessed by 70G or a Quarter Million.

As a seer Sr Lucy continued to have visitations by not only the Blessed Mother but also Jesus Christ himself in 1925.

The gravity of the reality of these seers is still yet to be realized and understood. I would would be very skeptical to dismiss a obvious message from God. And its not coincidence that all the Popes since Fatima all made at least one if not several visits to Fatima.

The reality that the Vatican walks with caution should never be interpreted that they don’t believe fully in fatima. If you seriuosly research who has followed Fatima, the Vatican clearly has a close eye on Fatima.

I’m not sure whats expected by everyone in regards to the Vatican and the Pope. One only needs to read Benedict XVIs May 13th 2010 Homily to understand how he views Fatima. Its not by chance he made that speech nor did he do this to patronize Fatima.

As far as what your required to believe, do believe, and whats worthy of belief. Thats up to you, yet it has no bearing on Truth. Many don’t believe we landed on the Moon either. Thats doesn’t change reality. Satan has made a effort to silence the message fo Fatima. Just as mentioned above. Had the evils of men not prevailed that Miracle would have been even greater than it was.

You could believe this though. its not by chance the position the Vatican elevated the Blessed Mother to after Fatima. Thats the result of Fatima.

Don’t confuse silence for disbelief. The silence indicates the waiting of the full reality to occur. We have another decade [7-years] to make it through. Just as the Pope clearly spoke on. And we need to Pray the Rosary just as the Pope has said. They don’t waste words when they speak. Listen very carefully to the message. Theres a fine line being walked here between reality and sensationalism. The results of everything said at Fatima is not fully or clearly known yet.

Sr Lucy may well be one of the Greatest Saints thats come along in a very long time. You can place her life under a microscope and I assure you, you will find no fault. Lets not confuse what we simply do not know for not being true. Most every Pope during her life made it a point to sit and speak with her. That alone is amazing. And you also have to realize this was an illiterate child who didn’t even know what Russia mean’t when she relayed that message. Under this circumstance I would be very carefull is discard the message and thus totally miss it.

God Bless, Gary

 

[Brooklyn]

I agree, and we have to understand also that todays reality is tommorrows History. Fatima is considered by many to be the single greatest event of that century. And its a window to clearly see a truth of Christ and the Blessed Mother. Time tells no lies in history. Theres no denying what happened their. Its a reality and while its considered Private it was a Public Miracle just as Zeatoun was. Theres a bit of difference between a Miracle witnessed by One or Two, and then a Miracle witnessed by 70G or a Quarter Million.

As a seer Sr Lucy continued to have visitations by not only the Blessed Mother but also Jesus Christ himself in 1925.

The gravity of the reality of these seers is still yet to be realized and understood. I would would be very skeptical to dismiss a obvious message from God. And its not coincidence that all the Popes since Fatima all made at least one if not several visits to Fatima.

The reality that the Vatican walks with caution should never be interpreted that they don’t believe fully in fatima. If you seriuosly research who has followed Fatima, the Vatican clearly has a close eye on Fatima.

I’m not sure whats expected by everyone in regards to the Vatican and the Pope. One only needs to read Benedict XVIs May 13th 2010 Homily to understand how he views Fatima. Its not by chance he made that speech nor did he do this to patronize Fatima.

As far as what your required to believe, do believe, and whats worthy of belief. Thats up to you, yet it has no bearing on Truth. Many don’t believe we landed on the Moon either. Thats doesn’t change reality. Satan has made a effort to silence the message fo Fatima. Just as mentioned above. Had the evils of men not prevailed that Miracle would have been even greater than it was.

You could believe this though. its not by chance the position the Vatican elevated the Blessed Mother to after Fatima. Thats the result of Fatima.

Don’t confuse silence for disbelief. The silence indicates the waiting of the full reality to occur. We have another decade [7-years] to make it through. Just as the Pope clearly spoke on. And we need to Pray the Rosary just as the Pope has said. They don’t waste words when they speak. Listen very carefully to the message. Theres a fine line being walked here between reality and sensationalism. The results of everything said at Fatima is not fully or clearly known yet.

Sr Lucy may well be one of the Greatest Saints thats come along in a very long time. You can place her life under a microscope and I assure you, you will find no fault. Lets not confuse what we simply do not know for not being true. Most every Pope during her life made it a point to sit and speak with her. That alone is amazing. And you also have to realize this was an illiterate child who didn’t even know what Russia mean’t when she relayed that message. Under this circumstance I would be very carefull is discard the message and thus totally miss it.

God Bless, Gary

Very well written and expressed. I completely agree with you. I think that Fatima is the single most important spiritual message of the 20th Century, and completely relevant to our time, almost 100 years later. Personally, I think the reason people reject it is they don’t like the message of condemnation and hell that is associated with it. There are Catholics who reject the notion of hell. I know of a pastor of a Catholic church who preaches that everyone is going to heaven. Certainly, someone like that will have no use for the message of Fatima, and because the Church rightly says that accepting the message of Fatima is not necessary for salvation, people will reject it. But as you say, that is to their own detriment.

 

[notredame_999]

Brooklyn- Great Reply, I agree with your analysis. The real question though is why are they afraid to mention the message and reality of hell? Perhaps it could be that the message itself supports the sacrament of confession (or reconciliation although I don’t like that term) and lets face it confession in most novus ordo parishes is a dead sacrament.

Most american catholics know nothing about Fatima. I had to do the research for myself. Why is this? Maybe its because attitudes like the original post which say, “FATIMA IS NOT DOGMA!” Ok technically that maybe so, but why would anyone not believe in Fatima? Answer- they are uncomftorable with hell.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Most american catholics know nothing about Fatima. I had to do the research for myself. Why is this? Maybe its because attitudes like the original post which say, “FATIMA IS NOT DOGMA!” Ok technically that maybe so, but why would anyone not believe in Fatima? Answer- they are uncomftorable with hell.

So now you are competent to just the souls and minds of others.

You have a lot to learn.

 

[notredame_999]

So now you are competent to just the souls and minds of others.

You have a lot to learn.

Brother David, I wasn’t judging anyone’s soul. I am simply speculating why an educated catholic would choose not to believe in the apparitions of the virgin mary in Aljustrel Portugal in 1917, especially with the miracle of the sun witnessed by 50,000-100,000 people.

Since I have a lot to learn maybe you can tell me other reasons.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Brother David, I wasn’t judging anyone’s soul. I am simply speculating why an educated catholic would choose not to believe in the apparitions of the virgin mary in Aljustrel Portugal in 1917, especially with the miracle of the sun witnessed by 50,000-100,000 people.

Since I have a lot to learn maybe you can tell me other reasons.

Maybe it has nothing to do with their spiritual life and they have not take then time to look into it so it is a non-issue for them.

Again though, you are judging. There is no “technically” with Church Teaching, either it is required for our salvation or it is not. It is not your place to judge otherwise nor it is your place to judge those who follow what the Church is Teaching just becuase they differ from your opinion on things.

As for the numbers of witnesses, that has been dealt with before but dare I say it again, we have instances of UFO’s that have hundreds even thousands of witnesses yet I am sure you do not believe in those cases.

This is a tactic of those who push Fatima to try and make it a part of public revelation, yet it is not.

 

[notredame_999]

Maybe it has nothing to do with their spiritual life and they have not take then time to look into it so it is a non-issue for them.

Again though, you are judging. There is no “technically” with Church Teaching, either it is required for our salvation or it is not. It is not your place to judge otherwise nor it is your place to judge those who follow what the Church is Teaching just becuase they differ from your opinion on things.

As for the numbers of witnesses, that has been dealt with before but dare I say it again, we have instances of UFO’s that have hundreds even thousands of witnesses yet I am sure you do not believe in those cases.

This is a tactic of those who push Fatima to try and make it a part of public revelation, yet it is not.

I don’t disagree with any of this. However, just last may the current Pope visited Fatima, said mass there, and also mentioned that the message of Fatima was not over and it is particuarly relevant to our time. With that said, why would anyone choose not to believe in a “private” revelation that even the Pope himself firmly believes in? That to me is an odd position.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t disagree with any of this. However, just last may the current Pope visited Fatima, said mass there, and also mentioned that the message of Fatima was not over and it is particuarly relevant to our time. With that said, why would anyone choose not to believe in a “private” revelation that even the Pope himself firmly believes in? That to me is an odd position.

And to me it is an odd position to not allow others to follow what the Church Teaches in their own way without forcing your own views and opinions on them.

Personally speaking Fatima plays no role in my spirituality. I do not believe in it, I do not disbelieve in it. It just has no place.

There are other private revelations that have played a role in my spiritual life and do play a role in it. Fatima just has never come up nor do I perceive a need for it. Sorry if that some how bothers you, but that is your issue and not mine.

 

[pnewton]

… someone like that will have no use for the message of Fatima, and because the Church rightly says that accepting the message of Fatima is not necessary for salvation, people will reject it. But as you say, that is to their own detriment.

Or it is not. That is the meaning of private revelation. There is a great wealth of spirituality in the Catholic Church and not all is the best for everyone. One could equally say the same thing you did of St. Thomas Aquinas, or of the writings of St. Terese. Some may find greater use for a different spirituality than you. That does not mean that they do so only at their detriment.

 

[malphono]

This is a tactic of those who push Fatima to try and make it a part of public revelation, yet it is not.

I find the whole subject of Fatima fascinating, and I suppose it is particularly suited to this forum.

For one thing, it is an “approved apparition” and people often mistakenly think that, because it’s approved, it’s automatically part of Church teaching. For another, (and maybe I’m off-base here), I suspect that Fatima gets lots of press in this forum because of the “conversion of Russia” concept since, of course communism was, is, and will always be, the bugbear of a certain segment of the population. What? The Soviet Union imploded? No more state-sponsored communism? Fine. They turn the words against the Russian Orthodox Church, or something else.

But even more fascinating to me is this: rarely does anyone here mention Lourdes, despite the famous words of the Holy Virgin “Je suis l’Immaculée Conception” which actually do represent dogmatic teaching.

I’d say I don’t get it, but I actually think I do.