Fatima, the work of satan?

[Stephen_C]

Simon,
Why does this bother you so much? What is the real issue here? I am reminded of this quote from GK Chesterton.
“He has come too near to the truth, and has forgotten that truth is a magnet, with the powers of attraction and repulsion… The moment men cease to pull against {the Catholic Church} they feel a tug towards it. The moment they cease to shout it down they begin to listen to it with pleasure. The moment they try to be fair to it they begin to be fond of it. But when that affection has passed a certain point it begins to take on the tragic and menacing grandeur of a great love affair…When he has entered the Church, he finds that the Church is much larger inside than it is outside.”

Maybe it is time to start seeking the truth not using/finding bits and pieces of this and that pasted together to try and support your view. Let it speak to you.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I’m just going to take this thread title and work with it for a minute. O.K. Let’s all go with the idea that the apparition at Fatima was satan. Why would satan waste his time with a Church that was in error? Wouldn’t he work hard to deceive the believers of the* true* faith and appear to Protestants if their teachings were the true faiths?

Hi Eden, on the other hand if our teachings are the ones following the instructions recorded by the apostles, and kept up by the early church, and not ones that have developed over time by human traditions then it seems to me that the church whom followed human tradition would be the easier target to decieve and deception is the biggest weapon the devil has in his arsenal.

 

[Stephen_C]

Hi Eden, on the other hand if our teachings are the ones following the instructions recorded by the apostles, and kept up by the early church, and not ones that have developed over time by human traditions then it seems to me that the church whom followed human tradition would be the easier target to decieve and deception is the biggest weapon the devil has in his arsenal.

That is so true…I guess that is why we have so many Protestant denominations out there…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

You mean like the “early apostolic traditions” that the bread and wine were just symbols?

That we don’t need to confess to a priest?

That divorce, birth control, sodomy and abortion are A-ok?

That women may be ordained priests?

That the saints are really just. . .dead people?

Mary wasn’t ever virgin?

These are all Protestant teachings. . .and not one of them was part of apostolic teaching or tradition. Not one of them was ever held as a Christian truth until 500 years ago, or even 70 years ago or less?

Read your history. Read the Didache, read the early Church fathers, read the Bible, and you’ll see that every thing the Catholic Church teaches is not only Scriptural and “God breathed” Traditional (as opposed to man-made), it is eternal and unchanging. It only gets deeper, it doesn’t change from white to black but instead is understood of as “snowy white” and not just white. We don’t have the Trinity become the Dynamic Duo or the Fab Four–Protestants have Unitarians, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons to name just three who have, on what they term “Biblical grounds”, jettisoned the Trinity. So why is their interpretation of the Bible not to be preferred over a Trinitarian protestant’s? Both your arguments would claim to be based on purely scriptural grounds, and both of you would argue that your grounds were “from apostolic times”. So who chooses the one who is right–because all of you can’t be (and in fact, the right church is the Catholic church).

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I debunked it by demonstrating that some Scripture doesnt pass his test and he has since ignored me!

Hi Phil, Peace and blessings to you! I’ve not tried to ignore you! sorry if you are left feeling that way…

I quoted scripture, you claim you used the verse I quoted to dispel other scripture??? Your in disagreement with your church if you believe this!
the RCC stand on scripture is that they are the inerrant word of God… I did not ignore I just didn’t see it worthy of a response…No offense intended.
He is worthy to be sought!!!
Simon

 

[myfavoritmartin]

That is so true…I guess that is why we have so many Protestant denominations out there…

Please Stephen, not this old argument again, there has 2 splits and at least 10 different forms of the Catholic church… what number is okay? Different thread really,

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You mean like the “early apostolic traditions” that the bread and wine were just symbols?

That we don’t need to confess to a priest?

That divorce, birth control, sodomy and abortion are A-ok?

That women may be ordained priests?

That the saints are really just. . .dead people?

Mary wasn’t ever virgin?

These are all Protestant teachings. . .and not one of them was part of apostolic teaching or tradition. Not one of them was ever held as a Christian truth until 500 years ago, or even 70 years ago or less?

Read your history. Read the Didache, read the early Church fathers, read the Bible, and you’ll see that every thing the Catholic Church teaches is not only Scriptural and “God breathed” Traditional (as opposed to man-made), it is eternal and unchanging. It only gets deeper, it doesn’t change from white to black but instead is understood of as “snowy white” and not just white. We don’t have the Trinity become the Dynamic Duo or the Fab Four–Protestants have Unitarians, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons to name just three who have, on what they term “Biblical grounds”, jettisoned the Trinity. So why is their interpretation of the Bible not to be preferred over a Trinitarian protestant’s? Both your arguments would claim to be based on purely scriptural grounds, and both of you would argue that your grounds were “from apostolic times”. So who chooses the one who is right–because all of you can’t be (and in fact, the right church is the Catholic church).

When the argument is lost, then and only then attack… Do you give?

 

[Eireann]

That is so true…I guess that is why we have so many Protestant denominations out there…

Didn’t Jesus say "upon these rocks I will build my churches " ? :ehh:

 

[Tantum_ergo]

How am I ‘attacking’ you? The only thing I ‘give’ is witness to the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the commandment to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Simon,
Why does this bother you so much? What is the real issue here?

It doesn’t bother me personally, but I would truly pray none of my protestant bretheren teetering on Catholocism would ever look at this vision because they wanted proof of God and then started just following what was told during this vision. I’ve read it many times and i just don’t see it being parallel with scripture…
Your church?maybe
Scripture no way.

Maybe it is time to start seeking the truth not using/finding bits and pieces of this and that pasted together to try and support your view. Let it speak to you.

I’ve sought and found the truth! Christ is the truth. I go directly to my father for advice guidance direction and protection. He tells me to do so.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

Amen, Come Lord Jesus!

 

[Stephen_C]

Please Stephen, not this old argument again, there has 2 splits and at least 10 different forms of the Catholic church… what number is okay? Different thread really,

Yes you are right there again…bout 2000 years old to be exact. Actually there is only one Catholic Church. These are all rites which are in communion with the Bishop of Rome, the successor to Peter. As to the Orthodox Church. I pray both East and West will again be united. As to my Protestant brothers and sisters…We will keep the light on for you.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

How am I ‘attacking’ you? The only thing I ‘give’ is witness to the grace and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the commandment to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves.

Amen then! It seemed as though you lost focus… my bad, I guess.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Didn’t Jesus say "upon these rocks I will build my churches " ? :ehh:

Eireann, Just for you before I leave here (end of January) I will do a thread just for you, I promise!

 

[boppaid]

Here are jut a handful of your comments with my response to each:

There is not a 100% correct human denomination.

 Catholics disagree and you know it. This is an attack on the Church.

There is a church that Christ promises. It is not a human organization led by a Pope, or group of Bishops, or elders. It is the church promised in the Holy Scriptures.

 Yes, the Catholic Church. This is an attack against the Church, the Pope and the Magisterium as a whole.

The number of organizations does not invalidate protestant OR the Catholic church view.

 Yes, it does because nearly all of those Protestant denoms hold differing views of Scripture and of truths of the faith, they cannot all be right.

I’ve read his Glories of Mary in its entirety…I found it very very troublesome, as should you.
 Typical, try to tell Catholics what they should do. That is an attack against Catholics, with an arrogance that you somehow know the faith better then Catholics.

*Scriptures says even men of Holy stature can be decieved. *
 Telling us Catholics we are being deceived, you are wrong. That is an attack against Catholics, with an arrogance that you somehow know the faith better then Catholics.

There are many more. Please put away your hatred for the Catholic faith/Church, it will not allow you to hear what we are saying. Allow your heart and mind to actually hear what people are saying. You have many times made statements that people are not giving direct opinions and that they are just following Church teachings, that is a direct insult because pretty much everyone here is trying to give you what you are asking for. If you refuse to hear or listen, then why are you here?

Tom, in all fairness, you cannot expect a Protestant to believe that the Catholic Church is the true denomination. Obviously, a Protestant is going to think that Catholics are deceived (or else they, too, would follows its doctrines). Etc. It does not mean that the protestant HATES the Catholic Church…they simply do not agree with it.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Tom, in all fairness, you cannot expect a Protestant to believe that the Catholic Church is the true denomination. Obviously, a Protestant is going to think that Catholics are deceived (or else they, too, would follows its doctrines). Etc. It does not mean that the protestant HATES the Catholic Church…they simply do not agree with it.

Boppaid, Thank you.
You are right, I simply do not hate the Catholic church, when my son misses church with me he must go with his Mother and step father to the Catholic church. What I don’t want to happen is my non catholic bretheren joining the catholic church because … obviously, I have some serious disagreements with her doctrines and dogmas and I think they are worthy of deeper study, if in that deeper study they determine your church gives them their answers then so be it. I always feel the points I bring to the surface are worthy of thought and discussion. And truly it would behoove any Catholic to be able to defend the faith from any angle, if you can’t then that area must be studied and understood.
Thanks and blessings!
He is worthy to be sought!!
Simon

 

[boppaid]

You’ve been told again and again that Fatima does, both by its very nature as an apparition of Mary, his mother, and by her own constant verbal acknowledgements of her Son during the apparitions.

I think what Protestants are saying, though, is how do you KNOW it was Mary (his Mother)? Just because the appiration said so?

 

[boppaid]

You appear to have read very selectively on Fatima, AND not read my previous posts on this very topic.

Or you would know she taught the children this prayer ‘Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to heaven especially those who most need your mercy’. which 99% of all Catholics say when they pray the Rosary.

AND that on October 13 1917 St Joseph AND THE CHILD JESUS appeared with Mary - as she told the children they would.

Can you REALLY see a Satanic apparition teaching people to acknowledge Jesus Christ as saviour, as our path to heaven and as source of mercy??? Or daring to impersonate Christ himself?

I didn’t read this before I posted my last question. Thank you.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

lily:

AND that on October 13 1917 St Joseph AND THE CHILD JESUS appeared with Mary - as she told the children they would.

Sadly, I missed this before… This really really really DOES contradict scripture, How you ask?
On resurrection day Christ was a full grown adult, approx. 33 years old! RIGHT? Well then if you believe in the resurrection and that Christ in both natures is in heaven right now… Which is a requirement of the Christian faith then how on earth and why on earth would he appear with her as a baby**(or was really her but not really our Saviour)** and why would he not himself speak to them if he was in that vision???** HE IS OUR SAVIOUR!**
This vision in my opinion is an act of deception perpetrated by none other than satan.
This sounds like an argument for marianity… sheesh I personally am disgusted more now than ever… I will go back and read that this was quoted correctly.
Lord Jesus open the minds and hearts of all reading this to know and see the truth, in your name we pray.

 

[water]

Sadly, I missed this before… This really really really DOES contradict scripture, How you ask?
On resurrection day Christ was a full grown adult, approx. 33 years old! RIGHT? Well then if you believe in the resurrection and that Christ in both natures is in heaven right now… Which is a requirement of the Christian faith then how on earth and why on earth would he appear with her as a baby**(or was really her but not really our Saviour)** and why would he not himself speak to them if he was in that vision???** HE IS OUR SAVIOUR!**
This vision in my opinion is an act of deception perpetrated by none other than satan.
This sounds like an argument for marianity… sheesh I personally am disgusted more now than ever… I will go back and read that this was quoted correctly.
Lord Jesus open the minds and hearts of all reading this to know and see the truth, in your name we pray.

This is getting out of control and unreasonable to argue. If you think Jesus can raise from death, what form does he have to be when he appear? Do you think that He is right now in Heaven always with bruises, blood drippings, holes in His head, his hands, his feet at all time? All do you think He, as God, can take whatever the form He wanted to.

Where is your faith? Don’t you guys say you have Faith? If your faith is so strong? why do you question what form Jesus has to be in when He appears?

Why don’t you stop and think about why Jesus being a baby appearing with Virgin Mary and St. Joseph? Should the appearance give you some good reasons?

It is good to test all spirits, but don’t give too much credit to Satan over your God and all in Heavens!

 

[francesco920]

myfavoritmartin,

Do you really believe Jesus would allow Satan to use his mother in order to trick us?

Perhaps a bit of common sense wouldn’t hurt.