M
Marie
Guest
John_19_59 said:
Repeat! Not to be disrespectful John…but I think you need to stop trying to be your own Pope.
- Status
Repeat! Not to be disrespectful John…but I think you need to stop trying to be your own Pope.
B
bones_IV
Guest
John_19_59 said:
You my friend are not Catholic! And are in no position to instruct us about Fatima.
Padre Pio “The Rosary is the weapon.”
S
springbreeze
Guest
John_19_59 said:
Dear friend
Why ask me a question like this unless you hope to trap me in words?
You know Vatican II was not dogmatic, rather Vatican I was dogmatic and may I remind you the significant dogma of the Vatican I council was the Primacy of the Pope and the Infallibility of the Pope in dogma and doctrine, the Pope that certain quarters turn their back on, Christ’s Vicar, who they walk away from on matters of a revelation.
There will more than likely be dogma arise out of Vatican II, which is of course the Co-Redemptrix of Mary Our Blessed Mother.
Do you, dear friend, only accept acts of the extraordinary Magisterium?
Do you not know that the ordinary Magisterium is to be accepted by Catholics as “authentic teaching,” even when it does not issue solemn acts, and many acts of the ordinary Magisterium will be infallible in their own right .
Vatican II did not intend, nor did it issue, any “extraordinary dogmatic decrees.” But to thereby dismiss the Council’s teaching and that of the Popes since is not Catholic at all. The Council taught as an apostolic college, and Pope Paul and Pope John Paul have taught as universal pastors. This is clear, for example, by the fact that both the Councils and the Popes have used the highest and most solemn form of ecclesiastical document, the Constitution. The Council issued Dogmatic Constititions on the Liturgy and on the Church, by overwhelming votes of the bishops. The Pope issued the discipline of the new Code of Canon Law and the teaching of the Catechism by Apostolic Constitutions.
You and your Priest friend are suffering from Integrism, the error of distrusting the work of the living Magisterium of the Church in favor of their own understanding of the “integral faith.” A very nasty disease indeed. But because such people hold to all the formally and solemnly taught dogmas they appear technically orthodox in faith.
If you recognise that Vatican I proclaimed the dogma of the Pope’s Primacy and his infallibility and if you recognise the Catholic church as a universal church, which is what Catholic means ‘universal’ , then you will also recognise that this universality is defined and held by complying with the ordinary Majesterium as well as the extra-ordinary dogmatic decrees.
Like I say axes and grinding, be careful with your axe and where you grind it
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
J
John_19_59
Guest
If you recognise that Vatican I proclaimed the dogma of the Pope’s Primacy and his infallibility and if you recognise the Catholic church as a universal church, which is what Catholic means ‘universal’ , then you will also recognise that this universality is defined and held by complying with the ordinary Majesterium as well as the extra-ordinary dogmatic decrees.
**
I do recognise Vatican I as a dogmatic council and I know and you know that Vatican II was not a dogmatic council.
I do know that under certain circumstances the teachings of the Pope are infallible, I also know - and history shows - that Popes can also be fallible in their teaching when they contradict previous infallible dogma.
What is an ordinary Catholic to make of the non-dogmatic treaching of Vatican II that the Church of God is bigger than the Catholic Church when it has already been dogmatically defined that the Church of God is the Catholic Church and that there is no salvation outside of this Church?
What is an ordinary Catholic supposed to make of the non-dogmatic teaching at Vatican II that man has a right to freedom of religion where it already has been dogmatically defined that man has no such right - only Catholics have that right?
What is an ordinary Catholic supposed to make of the non-dogmatic teaching of Vatican II in light of the infallible teaching of Pope Pius IX in his Syllabus of Errors and especially his list of modernist errors that Vatican II “corrected” according to Cardinal Ratzinger? Cardinal ratzinger called “Gaudium et Spes” a “counter-syllabus”.
I am not trying to be my own Pope, I am merely trying to understand how the Church got to be in the mess it is in today. It is time to abandon this non-dogmatic mess and start teaching real Catholic dogma infallibly taught by the Church in the past.
I am also trying - in light of the title of this thread - to understand what was so significant about the Third Secret and the year 1960 when it would become “much clearer”.
1960 is the year when the bastions of the Catholic Church were started to be officially demolished in an attempt to make “dialogue” with jews, heretics, schismatics and pagans in search of the (masonic) ideal of universal fraternity.
The fruits are there for all to see.
St John the Baptist protect the Catholic Church.
**
I do recognise Vatican I as a dogmatic council and I know and you know that Vatican II was not a dogmatic council.
I do know that under certain circumstances the teachings of the Pope are infallible, I also know - and history shows - that Popes can also be fallible in their teaching when they contradict previous infallible dogma.
What is an ordinary Catholic to make of the non-dogmatic treaching of Vatican II that the Church of God is bigger than the Catholic Church when it has already been dogmatically defined that the Church of God is the Catholic Church and that there is no salvation outside of this Church?
What is an ordinary Catholic supposed to make of the non-dogmatic teaching at Vatican II that man has a right to freedom of religion where it already has been dogmatically defined that man has no such right - only Catholics have that right?
What is an ordinary Catholic supposed to make of the non-dogmatic teaching of Vatican II in light of the infallible teaching of Pope Pius IX in his Syllabus of Errors and especially his list of modernist errors that Vatican II “corrected” according to Cardinal Ratzinger? Cardinal ratzinger called “Gaudium et Spes” a “counter-syllabus”.
I am not trying to be my own Pope, I am merely trying to understand how the Church got to be in the mess it is in today. It is time to abandon this non-dogmatic mess and start teaching real Catholic dogma infallibly taught by the Church in the past.
I am also trying - in light of the title of this thread - to understand what was so significant about the Third Secret and the year 1960 when it would become “much clearer”.
1960 is the year when the bastions of the Catholic Church were started to be officially demolished in an attempt to make “dialogue” with jews, heretics, schismatics and pagans in search of the (masonic) ideal of universal fraternity.
The fruits are there for all to see.
St John the Baptist protect the Catholic Church.
M
Marie
Guest
St Michael the Archangel protect the Catholic Church from lunitic’s. Amen! 
S
springbreeze
Guest
Dear friend
You are trying to be your own authority.
Division and dissenting is the cause of all problems that may arise in the church and of every problem in the past, with heretics and schisms…
Be obedient, renounce pride and trust in Christ Jesus’ Church it will not fail when all others will fall under the gates of hell, the Catholic church will prevail against the gates of hell…Christ Jesus said it, He doesn’t lie.
A heretic and/or schismatic does not only betray the Pope and the Majesterium, but the whole Body of Christ and Christ Jesus Himself.
If there have been grave errors in the church such as child abuse etc, satan is bound to attack the Catholic Church, no Priests, no Eucharist, no Eucharist , no spiritual food for the flock, flock weakened.
No schismatic break away group is going to suffer as the Catholic Church. I have never known any other church on this earth beaten up against and criticised as much as the Catholic church, the Catholic Church is truly hated by the world and it is not even safe from those who so-called profess faith within it…
BUT, Christ said, what He suffered so will His followers, the Body of Christ, the Catholic church which resides in the fullness of Truth and the fullness of the Faith, it fully resides in Christ Jesus …rejection, suspicion, mistrust, testing, disbelief,lied about, false witness against it, twisting of words and speech, accused as being evil, of lying, of being crazy and insane, dismissed, ignored, humiliated, dissent and desertion,practices questioned, battled against, plots against it, casting doubt on the truth, twisting and distortion of the truth, rejection of the truth, betrayal, hurt and heartbreak, trial, mocked, ridiculed, tortured, suffering, shown no mercy and murdered.
I see here in this axe grinding, nothing other than I expected as that what our Sweet Lord Jesus warned us of.
God bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
You are trying to be your own authority.
Division and dissenting is the cause of all problems that may arise in the church and of every problem in the past, with heretics and schisms…
Be obedient, renounce pride and trust in Christ Jesus’ Church it will not fail when all others will fall under the gates of hell, the Catholic church will prevail against the gates of hell…Christ Jesus said it, He doesn’t lie.
A heretic and/or schismatic does not only betray the Pope and the Majesterium, but the whole Body of Christ and Christ Jesus Himself.
If there have been grave errors in the church such as child abuse etc, satan is bound to attack the Catholic Church, no Priests, no Eucharist, no Eucharist , no spiritual food for the flock, flock weakened.
No schismatic break away group is going to suffer as the Catholic Church. I have never known any other church on this earth beaten up against and criticised as much as the Catholic church, the Catholic Church is truly hated by the world and it is not even safe from those who so-called profess faith within it…
BUT, Christ said, what He suffered so will His followers, the Body of Christ, the Catholic church which resides in the fullness of Truth and the fullness of the Faith, it fully resides in Christ Jesus …rejection, suspicion, mistrust, testing, disbelief,lied about, false witness against it, twisting of words and speech, accused as being evil, of lying, of being crazy and insane, dismissed, ignored, humiliated, dissent and desertion,practices questioned, battled against, plots against it, casting doubt on the truth, twisting and distortion of the truth, rejection of the truth, betrayal, hurt and heartbreak, trial, mocked, ridiculed, tortured, suffering, shown no mercy and murdered.
I see here in this axe grinding, nothing other than I expected as that what our Sweet Lord Jesus warned us of.
God bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
F
Fergal
Guest
The Act of Consecration 13th May 1982 - St Lucia reveals through the papal Nuncio in Portugal that it did not fulfill the request of Our Lady since many Bishops were notified too late
Death of Brezhnev - 1982
Death of Andropov early 1984
The Act of Consecration 13th May 1984 - Sr Lucia revelas that the Consecration which was “in union with all the Bishops” has been accepted as valid by Heaven
Gorbachev promoted to head of Foreign Affairs Committee March 1984
March 11th 1985 death of Chernenko and Gorbachev becomes General Secretary to USSR
1988 proclaimed a ‘Marian Year’ by Pope John Paul II
December 1988 Gorbachev stuns UN and Kremlin with announcement of major political changes for Russia
December 1 1989 Gorbachev meets Pope John Paul II in Rome and reports that meeting is “an extraordinary event” declares that a ‘Law of the Freedom of Conscience’ will be adopted.
February 1990 states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia declare independence from USSR
March 15 1990 Vatican and Russia establish diplomatic relations
May 1990 Yeltsin elected president of parliment
May 13th 1991 Pope visits Fatima again in thanksgiving and petition
August 19 1991 Coup launched against Gorbachev
August 19 - Feast of St John Eudes - first Priest to offer Holy Mass and Divine Office in honour of the Immaculate Heart of Mary
August 20 1991 - Last day of Popes visit to Hungary Hungarian feast day of St Stephen who consecrated Hungary to Our Lady - It is also the feast of St Bernard who spoke so sublimely of our Blessed Lady
August 21st 1991 6.30pm - Coup collapsed. Already within the first vespers of the feast of the Queenship of Mary. Its ending could not have been more complete or peaceful.
August 21 - Feast of Pope St. Pius X who approved use of the scapular of the Sacred Hearts of jesus and Mary
August 21 - Feast of Our Lady of Knock (Ireland)
August 22 - Gorbachev arrives back shaken but resolute to ‘fight for the Communist party’ Dissolution of Marxism and Communist Party set in motion
August 22 - Church formerly celebrated the feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary on this date. The feast was instituted by Pope Pius XII in commeration of the first consecration of the world to Mary’s Immaculate Heart. Now this date changed to the feast of the Queenship of Mary. (The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Heart has been moved alongside Sacred Heart of Jesus in accordance with request of Our Lord through Lucia)
August 23 - Gorbachev resigns as leader of Communist Party and banned it from all state bodies - KGB purged.
September 7th 1991 both Yeltsin and Gorbachev publically state “the model has failed”
October 13th 1991 - First ever pilgimage to Fatima from Moscow
December 8th 1991 Yeltsin and leaders from Byelorussia and Ukraine sign agreement to set up commonwealth.
December 21st 1991 - Dissolution of Soviet Union
December 25th - Gorbachev resigns as General Secretary and hammer and sickle flag lowered for the last time.
Death of Brezhnev - 1982
Death of Andropov early 1984
The Act of Consecration 13th May 1984 - Sr Lucia revelas that the Consecration which was “in union with all the Bishops” has been accepted as valid by Heaven
Gorbachev promoted to head of Foreign Affairs Committee March 1984
March 11th 1985 death of Chernenko and Gorbachev becomes General Secretary to USSR
1988 proclaimed a ‘Marian Year’ by Pope John Paul II
December 1988 Gorbachev stuns UN and Kremlin with announcement of major political changes for Russia
December 1 1989 Gorbachev meets Pope John Paul II in Rome and reports that meeting is “an extraordinary event” declares that a ‘Law of the Freedom of Conscience’ will be adopted.
February 1990 states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia declare independence from USSR
March 15 1990 Vatican and Russia establish diplomatic relations
May 1990 Yeltsin elected president of parliment
May 13th 1991 Pope visits Fatima again in thanksgiving and petition
August 19 1991 Coup launched against Gorbachev
August 19 - Feast of St John Eudes - first Priest to offer Holy Mass and Divine Office in honour of the Immaculate Heart of Mary
August 20 1991 - Last day of Popes visit to Hungary Hungarian feast day of St Stephen who consecrated Hungary to Our Lady - It is also the feast of St Bernard who spoke so sublimely of our Blessed Lady
August 21st 1991 6.30pm - Coup collapsed. Already within the first vespers of the feast of the Queenship of Mary. Its ending could not have been more complete or peaceful.
August 21 - Feast of Pope St. Pius X who approved use of the scapular of the Sacred Hearts of jesus and Mary
August 21 - Feast of Our Lady of Knock (Ireland)
August 22 - Gorbachev arrives back shaken but resolute to ‘fight for the Communist party’ Dissolution of Marxism and Communist Party set in motion
August 22 - Church formerly celebrated the feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary on this date. The feast was instituted by Pope Pius XII in commeration of the first consecration of the world to Mary’s Immaculate Heart. Now this date changed to the feast of the Queenship of Mary. (The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Heart has been moved alongside Sacred Heart of Jesus in accordance with request of Our Lord through Lucia)
August 23 - Gorbachev resigns as leader of Communist Party and banned it from all state bodies - KGB purged.
September 7th 1991 both Yeltsin and Gorbachev publically state “the model has failed”
October 13th 1991 - First ever pilgimage to Fatima from Moscow
December 8th 1991 Yeltsin and leaders from Byelorussia and Ukraine sign agreement to set up commonwealth.
December 21st 1991 - Dissolution of Soviet Union
December 25th - Gorbachev resigns as General Secretary and hammer and sickle flag lowered for the last time.
M
Marie
Guest
The Act of Consecration 13th May 1984 - Sr Lucia revelas that the Consecration which was “in union with all the Bishops” has been accepted as valid by Heaven. 
J
John_19_59
Guest
Of course the act of consecration “to the world” in 1984 was valid and accepted by Heaven. Every act of consecration has value. It was the same consecration carried out by Pius XII, Paul VI and John Paul II (in 1982) - each of these were valid and accepted by Heaven. Any words attributed to Sr Lucia saying it has been accepted are probably true.
BUT…
These acts are not the specific act requested by Our Lady at Fatima. Sr Lucia said on numerous occasions that that particular act has to mention Russia and be carried out in union with the Bishops of the world. This quite clearly did no happen in 1984.
Anyone who claims that Russia has been converted is living in dreamland. So they don’t fly the hammer and sickle anymore - so what! Is that a “conversion”?
Russia is a moral cesspit still spreading its errors around the world (via the internet these days) and how its errors have spread. Most western countries are now godless states promoting godless policies - abortion, contraception, anti-family, secularism - its all there.
And Ex-KGB Colonel Putin is busy suppressing freedom in Russia - business as usual - so much for that “conversion”.
Meanwhile the Vatican is busy condemning anyone who speaks up for traditional Catholic dogma whilst at the same time opening its arms to welcome the likes of Mikail Gorbachev, and all of the worlds Christ-deniers.
Russia WILL be converted, the Pope WILL consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, the Immaculate heart WILL triumph.
How much more pain do we have to suffer before this is done?
BUT…
These acts are not the specific act requested by Our Lady at Fatima. Sr Lucia said on numerous occasions that that particular act has to mention Russia and be carried out in union with the Bishops of the world. This quite clearly did no happen in 1984.
Anyone who claims that Russia has been converted is living in dreamland. So they don’t fly the hammer and sickle anymore - so what! Is that a “conversion”?
Russia is a moral cesspit still spreading its errors around the world (via the internet these days) and how its errors have spread. Most western countries are now godless states promoting godless policies - abortion, contraception, anti-family, secularism - its all there.
And Ex-KGB Colonel Putin is busy suppressing freedom in Russia - business as usual - so much for that “conversion”.
Meanwhile the Vatican is busy condemning anyone who speaks up for traditional Catholic dogma whilst at the same time opening its arms to welcome the likes of Mikail Gorbachev, and all of the worlds Christ-deniers.
Russia WILL be converted, the Pope WILL consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, the Immaculate heart WILL triumph.
How much more pain do we have to suffer before this is done?
J
John_19_59
Guest
St Athanasius protect the Catholic Church.
St Basil pray for us.
(Famous Catholic dissenters)
St Basil pray for us.
(Famous Catholic dissenters)
S
springbreeze
Guest
Dear friend
So, the Catholic Church and all within it are in error and you personally and with your Priest friend and any of his follower are not in error and practising the faith to it’s fullness?
No-one likes to be wrong, but not once have you considered the possibility that indeed you are wrong. You have strode on headlong with your axe, happy and glad to carry this axe and happy to grind it upon the Church.
You have shown no charity or obedience to the church nor to the Body of the Church, moreover none whatsoever to our Pontiff.
I have replied to your posts not to find out if there is any truth in what you say, I have replied in hope that you will see that there is no truth in what you have been drawn to be convinced to believe by whatever quarters courted you in this and now it has become what you say for yourself. It is easy in this ‘age of opinion’, which stems from the era of the ‘self’, to be drawn away from the Church into areas that are not of Christ Jesus.
If you choose to live by this schism that is your choice and if you choose to promote this schism that is also your choice, but I do hope you do not consider me rude ,then, in the light that you are promoting and living a schism and are unwilling to listen to the truth presently, that I regretfully choose not to discuss this with you any further. The truth has been clearly stated and you have rejected it in preference of your own opinion formed on the opinion of a schismatic Priest.
It is with deep regret and sadness I make this decision and I truly wish you Christ’s peace and that you return to full trust of, obedience to and full communion with the Catholic church.
Remaining in my prayers.
God Bless you always dear friend and much love and peace to you and all those you know and love.
Teresa
So, the Catholic Church and all within it are in error and you personally and with your Priest friend and any of his follower are not in error and practising the faith to it’s fullness?
No-one likes to be wrong, but not once have you considered the possibility that indeed you are wrong. You have strode on headlong with your axe, happy and glad to carry this axe and happy to grind it upon the Church.
You have shown no charity or obedience to the church nor to the Body of the Church, moreover none whatsoever to our Pontiff.
I have replied to your posts not to find out if there is any truth in what you say, I have replied in hope that you will see that there is no truth in what you have been drawn to be convinced to believe by whatever quarters courted you in this and now it has become what you say for yourself. It is easy in this ‘age of opinion’, which stems from the era of the ‘self’, to be drawn away from the Church into areas that are not of Christ Jesus.
If you choose to live by this schism that is your choice and if you choose to promote this schism that is also your choice, but I do hope you do not consider me rude ,then, in the light that you are promoting and living a schism and are unwilling to listen to the truth presently, that I regretfully choose not to discuss this with you any further. The truth has been clearly stated and you have rejected it in preference of your own opinion formed on the opinion of a schismatic Priest.
It is with deep regret and sadness I make this decision and I truly wish you Christ’s peace and that you return to full trust of, obedience to and full communion with the Catholic church.
Remaining in my prayers.
God Bless you always dear friend and much love and peace to you and all those you know and love.
Teresa
F
Fergal
Guest
***Dear John 19 59,
You state:
Of course the act of consecration “to the world” in 1984 was valid and accepted by Heaven. Every act of consecration has value. It was the same consecration carried out by Pius XII, Paul VI and John Paul II (in 1982) - each of these were valid and accepted by Heaven.
If you pay any attention to my previous post it was stated that the consecration in 1982 was not deemed valid by Heaven. That of 1984 was indeed deemed valid.
That is the word from Heaven through Sr. Lucia. Is her word not good enough? If not why are you even interested in the Fatima message?
Any words attributed to Sr Lucia saying it has been accepted are probably true.
So what’s your problem with the fact that she stated in 1982, through the papal nuncio in Portugal, that the consecration carried out in May of that year was not valid?
BUT…
These acts are not the specific act requested by Our Lady at Fatima. Sr Lucia said on numerous occasions that that particular act has to mention Russia and be carried out in union with the Bishops of the world. This quite clearly did no happen in 1984.
If it is “quite clearly” the case then please provide clear proof. No more personal opinions. Oh and by the way the yawnful meanderings of a suspended Priest are not welcome proof. Something esle please. Maybe a secret letter from Lucia that you have?
Do you really think we are dealing with a pedantic God? Remember Christ said “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect”? He didn’t say try and be prefect. He said be perfect. In your opinion and applying your logic to this command if these words are not followed specifically then we are not doing what Christ has asked. If you are not perfect then I am afraid that you are not living out what Christ wants of you and all is in vain. Are you perfect? Or are you trying to attain perfection? If you are trying to attain perfection is this pleasing to God?
Anyone who claims that Russia has been converted is living in dreamland. So they don’t fly the hammer and sickle anymore - so what! Is that a “conversion”? Yes. Conversions if you have experience one yourself are not overnight miracles. They are continuous processes that, through the grace of God and the prayers of Our Blessed Lady, lead to a
Russia is a moral cesspit still spreading its errors around the world (via the internet these days) and how its errors have spread. Most western countries are now godless states promoting godless policies - abortion, contraception, anti-family, secularism - its all there.
***And America is not a moral cesspit? ******Why are you blaming Russia for the state of the United States? Where are most porn sites hosted? Where are they pushing for gay marriage? Where are they stating through the legislature that unless a human life meets the ludicrous ‘quality assurance mark’ it is not fit for living and must be terminated? Or if it is already living and loses its ‘quality assurance mark’ it must be denied food and water and brough to a tormentous end?
The United States of America has done more than its fair share of spreading error and has had quite a time of creating its own moral cesspit. Those in glass houses should not throw stones.***
And Ex-KGB Colonel Putin is busy suppressing freedom in Russia - business as usual - so much for that “conversion”. What about the state of religion in the good ol USA public schools?***
So the Religious state of affairs in Russia is no better than what it was 20 years ago? Hummmmm If Catholicism in Russia is still under strict supression why are the Orthodox so worried about its rapid growth in their country to the point where the Orthodox do not want a Pastoral visit from our Holy Father?***
Meanwhile the Vatican is busy condemning anyone who speaks up for traditional Catholic dogma whilst at the same time opening its arms to welcome the likes of Mikail Gorbachev, and all of the worlds Christ-deniers.
Russia WILL be converted, the Pope WILL consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, the Immaculate heart WILL triumph.
Oh and in case you do not realise it, it has already taken place. Such a pity that in your quest to reveal the truth you missed it. Wake up and smell the coffee and give up this ludricous campaign.
How much more pain do we have to suffer before this is done?
Only the pain that those, who insist nothing has occured over the past 25 years, continue to inflict on those of the faithful who realise the hand of God has been very active through the prayers of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
You state:
Of course the act of consecration “to the world” in 1984 was valid and accepted by Heaven. Every act of consecration has value. It was the same consecration carried out by Pius XII, Paul VI and John Paul II (in 1982) - each of these were valid and accepted by Heaven.
If you pay any attention to my previous post it was stated that the consecration in 1982 was not deemed valid by Heaven. That of 1984 was indeed deemed valid.
That is the word from Heaven through Sr. Lucia. Is her word not good enough? If not why are you even interested in the Fatima message?
Any words attributed to Sr Lucia saying it has been accepted are probably true.
So what’s your problem with the fact that she stated in 1982, through the papal nuncio in Portugal, that the consecration carried out in May of that year was not valid?
BUT…
These acts are not the specific act requested by Our Lady at Fatima. Sr Lucia said on numerous occasions that that particular act has to mention Russia and be carried out in union with the Bishops of the world. This quite clearly did no happen in 1984.
If it is “quite clearly” the case then please provide clear proof. No more personal opinions. Oh and by the way the yawnful meanderings of a suspended Priest are not welcome proof. Something esle please. Maybe a secret letter from Lucia that you have?
Do you really think we are dealing with a pedantic God? Remember Christ said “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect”? He didn’t say try and be prefect. He said be perfect. In your opinion and applying your logic to this command if these words are not followed specifically then we are not doing what Christ has asked. If you are not perfect then I am afraid that you are not living out what Christ wants of you and all is in vain. Are you perfect? Or are you trying to attain perfection? If you are trying to attain perfection is this pleasing to God?
Anyone who claims that Russia has been converted is living in dreamland. So they don’t fly the hammer and sickle anymore - so what! Is that a “conversion”? Yes. Conversions if you have experience one yourself are not overnight miracles. They are continuous processes that, through the grace of God and the prayers of Our Blessed Lady, lead to a
Russia is a moral cesspit still spreading its errors around the world (via the internet these days) and how its errors have spread. Most western countries are now godless states promoting godless policies - abortion, contraception, anti-family, secularism - its all there.
***And America is not a moral cesspit? ******Why are you blaming Russia for the state of the United States? Where are most porn sites hosted? Where are they pushing for gay marriage? Where are they stating through the legislature that unless a human life meets the ludicrous ‘quality assurance mark’ it is not fit for living and must be terminated? Or if it is already living and loses its ‘quality assurance mark’ it must be denied food and water and brough to a tormentous end?
The United States of America has done more than its fair share of spreading error and has had quite a time of creating its own moral cesspit. Those in glass houses should not throw stones.***
And Ex-KGB Colonel Putin is busy suppressing freedom in Russia - business as usual - so much for that “conversion”. What about the state of religion in the good ol USA public schools?***
So the Religious state of affairs in Russia is no better than what it was 20 years ago? Hummmmm If Catholicism in Russia is still under strict supression why are the Orthodox so worried about its rapid growth in their country to the point where the Orthodox do not want a Pastoral visit from our Holy Father?***
Meanwhile the Vatican is busy condemning anyone who speaks up for traditional Catholic dogma whilst at the same time opening its arms to welcome the likes of Mikail Gorbachev, and all of the worlds Christ-deniers.
Russia WILL be converted, the Pope WILL consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, the Immaculate heart WILL triumph.
Oh and in case you do not realise it, it has already taken place. Such a pity that in your quest to reveal the truth you missed it. Wake up and smell the coffee and give up this ludricous campaign.
How much more pain do we have to suffer before this is done?
Only the pain that those, who insist nothing has occured over the past 25 years, continue to inflict on those of the faithful who realise the hand of God has been very active through the prayers of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
J
John_19_59
Guest
Teresa,
You have not explained how a non-dogmatic council can change infallibly defined dogma like the examples I gave.
Cardinal Ratzinger said Gaudium Et Spes “corrected” Pope Pius IX’s Syallbus of Errors (The bane of all modernists).
You have not explained how a non-dogmatic council can change infallibly defined dogma like the examples I gave.
Cardinal Ratzinger said Gaudium Et Spes “corrected” Pope Pius IX’s Syallbus of Errors (The bane of all modernists).
J
John_19_59
Guest
Fergal,
Words attributed to Sr Lucia about valid consecrations come second or even third hand from ceratin people at the Vatican, she has not been allowed to speak without permission for 40 years. She is often quoted (as in the Bertone interview) without the context of the questions she was asked.
She could have said the 1982 consecration was not valid in the context of mentioning Russia, and she could have said the 1984 consecration was accepted but not meaning in the context of Russia being mentioned. Her quotes come via Vatican sources and even fraudulant letters.
It’s called “spin” - “being economical with the truth” - its the truth but perhaps not the truth we are led to believe.
The fact is that Sr Lucia did mention over and over again that Russia had to be specifically mentioned and that “the world” did not suffice for the request of Our Lady.
For instance on March 19, 1983, a visit took place between Sister Lucy and Archbishop Portalupi. Sister Lucy had prepared a text for the occasion, which was officially read. Sister Lucy said that the consecration as requested by Our Lady of Fatima had not been done the previous May 13, because:
Words attributed to Sr Lucia about valid consecrations come second or even third hand from ceratin people at the Vatican, she has not been allowed to speak without permission for 40 years. She is often quoted (as in the Bertone interview) without the context of the questions she was asked.
She could have said the 1982 consecration was not valid in the context of mentioning Russia, and she could have said the 1984 consecration was accepted but not meaning in the context of Russia being mentioned. Her quotes come via Vatican sources and even fraudulant letters.
It’s called “spin” - “being economical with the truth” - its the truth but perhaps not the truth we are led to believe.
The fact is that Sr Lucia did mention over and over again that Russia had to be specifically mentioned and that “the world” did not suffice for the request of Our Lady.
For instance on March 19, 1983, a visit took place between Sister Lucy and Archbishop Portalupi. Sister Lucy had prepared a text for the occasion, which was officially read. Sister Lucy said that the consecration as requested by Our Lady of Fatima had not been done the previous May 13, because:
*]Russia had not been the clear object of the consecration, and
*]Each bishop had not participated in a public and solemn ceremony in his own cathedral.
I don’t know what could be clearer. I haven’t made this up, you can check for yourself if you can be bothered. Type “Portalupi” and “Fatima” in a search engine if you can be bothered and take your pick.
But suddenly in 1989 and later in 2000 according to Cardinals Ratzinger and Bertone she did a complete u-turn.
I don’t believe it.
The wierd thing is I can’t understand why the supposed secret we have been recently told was locked away for 40 years. Most peoples reaction on reading it was “is that it?”.
What happened to the words “In Portugal the dogma of faith will be preserved etc”.
How come Bertone didn’t ask Lucy?
How come these words were relegated as a footnote to the official “attempted” interpretation by Cardinal ratzinger when they (name removed by moderator)ly that Our Lady had more words to say. Did she or didn’t she?
Of course she did!
Each of the other visions were accompanied by an explanation by Our Lady.
How come the “attempted” interpretation didn’t want to discuss the words “In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph?”
How come Cardinal Ratzinger only quoted “my Immaculate Heart will triumph” and then go on to “explain” that it did 2000 years ago.
“In the end…”
“Spin” - “ecomony with the truth”.
45 years of it.
M
MrS
Guest
Well John, now you see what happens when you present the facts and the history of a topic. Those who disagree with facts have no recourse but to accuse you of “not being Catholic”, or “trying to be pope”.
Ignore their baseless position. They have set their minds to accept what they want to accept, and then closed the door,
Keep up the good work, The truth will come out.
Ignore their baseless position. They have set their minds to accept what they want to accept, and then closed the door,
Keep up the good work, The truth will come out.
F
Fergal
Guest
Thank you for that John_19_59.
Now can you answer my questions?
I can sincerely appreciate why your good self and Mr S must hold to these fabrications. It gives you a position in the Church.
Mr S it looks like ya gotta lotta training yet to come.
Now can you answer my questions?
I can sincerely appreciate why your good self and Mr S must hold to these fabrications. It gives you a position in the Church.
Mr S it looks like ya gotta lotta training yet to come.
J
John_19_59
Guest
Fergal,
Godlessness has its origins in the “enlightenment”, found it’s momentum in the Russia revolution and has spread around the world to the likes of America.
Its errors have already spread, America is infected.
Communists, liberals and Christ-deniers have been chipping away at America for almost a century now and they have certainly been effective.
The conversion of Russia, when it happens, will be Gods means of bringing the world back.
Do you really believe Russia has been converted?
I can’t see how anyone can seriously take that position.
The Catholic Church is not allowed by law to make converts in Russia - STILL!
Godlessness has its origins in the “enlightenment”, found it’s momentum in the Russia revolution and has spread around the world to the likes of America.
Its errors have already spread, America is infected.
Communists, liberals and Christ-deniers have been chipping away at America for almost a century now and they have certainly been effective.
The conversion of Russia, when it happens, will be Gods means of bringing the world back.
Do you really believe Russia has been converted?
I can’t see how anyone can seriously take that position.
The Catholic Church is not allowed by law to make converts in Russia - STILL!
S
springbreeze
Guest
Dear friend
*If you choose to live by this schism that is your choice and if you choose to promote this schism that is also your choice, but I do hope you do not consider me rude ,then, in the light that you are promoting and living a schism and are unwilling to listen to the truth presently, that I regretfully choose not to discuss this with you any further. The truth has been clearly stated and you have rejected it in preference of your own opinion formed on the opinion of a schismatic Priest.
It is with deep regret and sadness I make this decision and I truly wish you Christ’s peace and that you return to full trust of, obedience to and full communion with the Catholic church.*
Did you read this?
Then if you did you will respect my wishes and not address anymore questions to me. You have payed as much attention to what I posted here as you have paid attention to what I have posted and others have posted regarding the nature of this thread.
You do not listen. That is why I do not wish to discuss with you anymore, you hold your OPINION and nothing anyone says will change that even though the opinion you hold is wrong.
MrS a desire to not discuss something with someone does not mean I am not speaking the truth…one can do this :banghead: all day long with someone, it will not change what they want to do. You hold the same opinion as John and I do not wish to debate with you either.
A person either accepts the Church and it’s teachings or they don’t, if they are so unaccepting, then don’t bother with the Church???
In every parish there is someone with an axe to grind and a will to grind it over some issue or other THEY think is wrong in the church and they make that the sole ambition of their faith, their faith revolves around it…I’ll leave you chasing your own faith while the majority go about living the faith of Christ Jesus.
Again, God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
F
Fergal
Guest
L
larryo
Guest
The important fact to remember about the Fatima apparitions is that they were private revelations and, as such, are not required to be believed by faithful Catholics. That said, there are questions about the Fatima secrets that seem not to have been fully explained:
- Why has there not been a specific consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart by the pope in conjunction with all the bishops as requested by Our Lady in the secrets?
- Why was Sister Lucia silenced by her bishops and the Vatican for so many years?
- Does the Vatican explanation of the Third Secret really comport with Sister Lucia’s text? Was the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II the same event as that described in the Third Secret, which clearly states that the pope and other bishops would be killed?
- Where is the conversion of Russia? Abortions, divorce, drunkenness, gangsterism, and violence are rampant. The Catholic Church is being suppressed by the Russian government in concert with the Russian Orthodox hierarchy.
- Where is the promised period of peace? Iraq? Israel? The Sudan? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Chechnya?
- Doesn’t it seem that Modernism, political correctness, momosexuality, and secular humanism are making significant inroads into every area of the Church?
- Status