Fatima...third secret?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BenRosa
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
larryo - those issues have already been discussed and answered.
You either believe our pope or you do not.
You will have charity in your heart regarding the Church and her pope - or you will not.
 
40.png
larryo:
The important fact to remember about the Fatima apparitions is that they were private revelations and, as such, are not required to be believed by faithful Catholics. That said, there are questions about the Fatima secrets that seem not to have been fully explained:
  • Why has there not been a specific consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart by the pope in conjunction with all the bishops as requested by Our Lady in the secrets?
No, and there is no quote by JPII that says he has “…performed the consecration of Russia by name, in conjunction with all the bishops as requested by Our Lady” anywhere, or even close to these requirements (not mine, Our Lady’s)
  • Why was Sister Lucia silenced by her bishops and the Vatican for so many years?
Makes you wonder. Perhaps to avoid any continuation of the contraversy. After all the Church has, for its own reasons, avoided the consecration since 1929, not just with the current Pontiff.
  • Does the Vatican explanation of the Third Secret really comport with Sister Lucia’s text? Was the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II the same event as that described in the Third Secret, which clearly states that the pope and other bishops would be killed?
Since we don’t know the full secret (vastly conflicting reports by many who have read it ) we can only accept that we are not meant to know it…yet.
  • Where is the conversion of Russia? Abortions, divorce, drunkenness, gangsterism, and violence are rampant. The Catholic Church is being suppressed by the Russian government in concert with the Russian Orthodox hierarchy.
Two out of three pregnancies are aborted (they admit to that many)
Divorce rate equal to the highest in the world.
Highest rate of alcoholics in the world.
Moscow makes the Mafia look like choirboys
Less Catholics (in number and certainly in percentage) now than in 1917.
No Catholic Church allowed to remain open without “permission” of local government officials (yet Muslem allowed to flourish at 100-to-1 rate)
  • Where is the promised period of peace? Iraq? Israel? The Sudan? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Chechnya?
Iraq peacefully negotiates with Russia for atomic power
Sudan … well the only peace there comes between gunfire, murder and mayhem
Pakistan and Afganistan… Russia was real peaceful toward that part of the world, huh
Chechnya… what, nobody know how Russia loves its own?
  • Doesn’t it seem that Modernism, political correctness, momosexuality, and secular humanism are making significant inroads into every area of the Church?
All in the name of peace?? or ecuminism?
Click to expand...
I believe what the Pontiff says… and what he does not say.
 
40.png
Lorarose:
First of all…you do realize Mel belongs to a schismatic group don’t you?
Click to expand...
What’s your source on this? I’ve never heard him say one way or the other.
 
One dead giveaway is that Mel has built his “own” catholic church in Malibu.
His very own. He neither sought, nor did he receive permission from the bishop.

It isn’t surprising - Mel is his father’s son.
Do a google search on Hutton Gibson and that should clear it up.
 
One singular proof that the non-dogmatic second vatican council and its interpretation is defective.

Pope Pius IX infallibly defined in his Syllabus of Errors that the following are errors…

*III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM *

*15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851. *

*16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. – Encyclical “Qui pluribus,” Nov. 9, 1846. *

*17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. – Encyclical “Quanto conficiamur,” Aug. 10, 1863, etc. *

*18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. – Encyclical “Noscitis,” Dec. 8, 1849. *

The Church during and since Vatican II has turned this on its head!

What is an ordinary Catholic to make of it?

As St Basil once said during the Arian crisis ""Only one offense is now vigorously punished, an accurate observance of our fathers’ traditions."

St Athanasius was exiled for 18 years because he wouldn’t tow the party line. Well… he’s a Saint now and Pope Liberius isn’t.

Another error condemned by Pope Pius IX…

80. The Roman Pontiff can, and ought to, reconcile himself, and come to terms with progress, liberalism and modern civilization.- -Allocution “Jamdudum cernimus,” March 18, 1861.

Which just about sums up the point Vatican II.

Further reading… cmri.org/02-v2_non-christian.shtml

Pope Pius IX, Pray for us.
St Athanasius pray for us.
St Basil pray for us.
 
A person either accepts the Church and it’s teachings or they don’t,
**
But I do!

I accept the infallible teaching of Pius IX.

But I am puzzled as to how I am expected to accept at the same time something non-dogmatic that is the complete opposite of it.

One of them is defective.
 
Fergal you said…

Just because the Church is not allowed by law does not mean conversions are not happening. Nor does it mean that Church is not active in welcoming those wishing to follow their conversion. Since when in History has the Holy Spirit been stopped by laws of the world?

The conversion of Russians in Russia is banned by the Catholic Church!
You appear to not know what is really going on.
 
You either believe our pope or you do not.

History proves that as far as believing a Pope is concerned then we should be wary.

Or do you think Catholics should have believed everything Pope Liberius said or even Pope Honorius I? Even St Peter was corrected by St Paul.

Any utterances of a Pope should not be automatically accepted but weighed against the tradition of the Church.

I’m sorry but that’s the truth - it is the Popes duty to hand on the Apostolic tradtion and not to reinterpret it or even change it.
 
40.png
Lorarose:
One dead giveaway is that Mel has built his “own” catholic church in Malibu.
His very own. He neither sought, nor did he receive permission from the bishop.

It isn’t surprising - Mel is his father’s son.
Do a google search on Hutton Gibson and that should clear it up.
Click to expand...
I’m aware of Hutton Gibson and his views, has Mel ever endoresed those views? again, I’ve never heard him say one way or the other, I have heard those rumors about him building his own church. I’ve also seen him do multiple interviews on EWTN which is obviously in union with Rome, and I’m aware of his visit to Sister Lucia who was pro-Pope. It seems there are mixed signals.
 
Chris in Mich:
I’m aware of Hutton Gibson and his views, has Mel ever endoresed those views? again, I’ve never heard him say one way or the other, I have heard those rumors about him building his own church. I’ve also seen him do multiple interviews on EWTN which is obviously in union with Rome, and I’m aware of his visit to Sister Lucia who was pro-Pope. It seems there are mixed signals.
Click to expand...
In an older interview, Mel Gibson was asked, rather directly, how he felt about his father’s comments/views of the Church. In a very somber voice Mel said “Hey, …he’s my dad…” (at least that was the gist of the answer)

Sounded like a loyal son who loves his father. That was important, not the goofy comments his father makes.
 
It is not a rumour that Mel has built his own “catholic” church.
Have you seen the articles about the guy who was stalking Mel - trying to pray with him?
This occurred at that church.

There is no way to tell which beliefs of Hutton’s have rubbed off on Mel, and which have not.As far as religion goes though, I think the schismatic church in Malibu is a dead giveaway.

Have you seen Mel’s movie Conspiracy Theory?
You start off thinking the guy is crazy - and his ideas are way too loony.
At the end of the movie it turns out the guy was right all along.
I’ve wondered for awhile if Mel made this movie with his dad in mind.
 
Here’s an interesting article about the 3rd secret.

spiritdaily.com/fatimasecrethistory.htm

The only thing I would add regards the reason why the children jumped and screamed during one of the apparitions.
According to one book I read The Sun Danced at Fatima
Lucia explained they screamed because Mary had shown them a vision of hell.
 
“etc”

What happened to “etc”?

All of Our Lady’s words have not been revealed. The dogma of faith is not going to be preserved elsewhere in the world.

As an aside (but still related to the main topic) - is hell empty?

I’m just wondering because I hear it more and more now, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor said it was recently. So I investigated some more - it seems this comes from Hans Ur Von Balthasar’ writings (again) during the 1950’s and Pope John Paul II seems to be highly favourable to this idea. In fact in Redemptor Hominis he seems to put across the idea that all men are redeemed if they know it or not. If hell is empty why does the Church bother? All men are saved. In fact in “Redemptor Hominis” John Paul said that all men are eternally united to Christ - which implies that no one is seperated from Chris in hell.

Now I’m fairly sure that the idea of an empty hell is heretical. Why not have a “good” time in the here now if if doesn’t matter in the end anyway?

In fact the ramifications of “all men are saved” if they wish it or not are mind-boggling.

Of course on of the secrets of Fatima is the reality of hell, and that many souls go there.

But the modernists don’t want that do they?
 
40.png
Lorarose:
larryo - those issues have already been discussed and answered.
You either believe our pope or you do not.
You will have charity in your heart regarding the Church and her pope - or you will not.
Click to expand...
I believe the pope when he teaches on faith and morals. However, while I think the official interpretation of the Third Secret is plausible, it is not necessarily definitive. It is an interpretation of a document that the faithful are not required to believe. I’ll try to have at least as much charity towards the pope as you do towards Mel Gibson and John_19_59.
 
I would hope you would try to show charity towards the pope of all people!

After all, the Holy Spirit guided the Church in electing him!

As far as Mel goes - I am a fan. I love his movies.
He has gorgeous blue eyes.
But facts are facts.
The fact is that Mel has built his own “catholic” church, which is not in union with the Roman Catholic Church.
Is it uncharitable to point this out?

John has presented an opinion here I disagree with.
This forum is a place where folks discuss issues and choose to agree or disagree.
I disagree - plain and simple.
 
This Sunday I will be attending (please God) my usual parish Novus Ordo mass where I will be worshipping Our Lord truely present in the Eucharist.

I don’t expect the Priest to mention Heaven, Hell, Judgement, The Eucharist, Our Lady or anything particularly Catholic come to that. Life as usual in a modern day Catholic parish.

But things will change - Our Lady promised.

God bless all.
 
40.png
John_19_59:
This Sunday I will be attending (please God) my usual parish Novus Ordo mass where I will be worshipping Our Lord truely present in the Eucharist.

I don’t expect the Priest to mention Heaven, Hell, Judgement, The Eucharist, Our Lady or anything particularly Catholic come to that. Life as usual in a modern day Catholic parish.

But things will change - Our Lady promised.

God bless all.
Click to expand...
And now all becomes clear to me. I had a post ready to go but you have answered all my questions in one go.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top