Fatima

  • Thread starter Thread starter judechild
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Canon is closed,Revelation is defined.Any extra"revelation" is not to held as having the same authority as the Deposit of Faith.These private encounters are little"extras" but are not necsessary for salvation.
 
juliamajor said:
The Canon is closed,Revelation is defined.Any extra"revelation" is not to held as having the same authority as the Deposit of Faith.These private encounters are little"extras" but are not necsessary for salvation.
Click to expand...
No, but winning souls for Christ ensures our salvation.
 
I_Believe said:
No, but winning souls for Christ ensures our salvation.
Click to expand...
Actually it doesn’t ensure your salvation -it makes it more probable but doesn’t insure it.
Besides what does that have to do with that which I wrote?
 
I personally do believe in Fatima. I really don’t think the 3rd secret will be revealed until the 2nd is fulfilled. The conversion of Russian and period of world peace.

The main message is, pray the Rosary. My favorite prayer.
 
CassiusLonginus said:
I was just being sarcastic. If the consecration had been fulfilled NOBODY could miss it.
Click to expand...
How do you know? Is there a published timeline? Do we know PRECISELY how long it will take? Do we know precisely what it will look like while it’s taking as long as it takes?

The Jews, even the Apostles, expected a very specific kind of Messiah. The One they got didn’t look remotely like what they’d been waiting for.
 
Though the Church does not require us to embrace these approved apparitions, I really don’t think I’d trust myself to pass judgment on them and say things that would offend those who do hold devotion to them, and perhaps Our Lady herself.

Discouraging devotion to our Lady of Fatima or dismissing it publicly would seem to please Satan first and foremost. That may not be the intention, but it is certainly the fruit.
 
I_Believe said:
Though the Church does not require us to embrace these approved apparitions, I really don’t think I’d trust myself to pass judgment on them and say things that would offend those who do hold devotion to them, and perhaps Our Lady herself.

Discouraging devotion to our Lady of Fatima or dismissing it publicly would seem to please Satan first and foremost. That may not be the intention, but it is certainly the fruit.
Click to expand...
Well, I don’t see where anyone has said anything offensive ABOUT the apparition or offensive to Our Lady. I only see people reflecting genuine Catholic teaching on the question. As for offending devotees, well, we should try to avoid offense in general. Perhaps you could get your fellow “traditionalists” to stop offending those devoted to the OF, etc. If we ALL worked on that, well…
 
JKirkLVNV said:
How do you know? Is there a published timeline? Do we know PRECISELY how long it will take? Do we know precisely what it will look like while it’s taking as long as it takes?
Click to expand...
No, it simply follows from reason. First consecrate Russia and then she’ll stop spreading her error and will convert. This hasn’t happened. The situation is only getting worse. There ya go. Mary says “if you do this, these will be the results”. Where are the results? That’s right, they’re non-existent. When did a pope consecrate Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart? It never happened (unless you think the pope was doing Mary a favor by disobeying her direct order, and instead caving to PC-ness and consecrating ‘the world’ to her. Jesus obeyed His mother, why should the servants be greater than their master? Why should popes feel they are above the Lord and can disobey Mother Mary?). If her instruction had been followed the fruits would have followed in such a way that everybody in the world could clearly see that this was a miraculous event, not one performed by man and his politicking and scheming.
The Jews, even the Apostles, expected a very specific kind of Messiah. The One they got didn’t look remotely like what they’d been waiting for.
Click to expand...
True, but the one they got was able to prove that he was authentic. If the supposed fruits of the supposed consecration take 50 years to come to fruition, who will believe that this was the result of this consecration? Nobody, of course, because there would be nothing in particular to point to the divine. Imagine if Jesus said “your sins are forgiven you, but you’ll only be able to get up and walk in 50 years”, who would take him seriously? Would you? What if he claimed it would take only 5 years instead of 50, would you still disbelieve? Of course, we all would. We’re people; we want to see proof. Consecrate Russia already, will ya?
 
Timothysis said:
“Yeah, but…” arguments are no arguments at all.
Click to expand...
I wonder why the sun danced at fatima. Certainly it wasn’t required.

Why did Christ allow Thomas to examine his wounds?

You say faith doesn’t require proof, but this is false. Blind faith is not a good thing, nor does the Church require it of us. Christ made us with analytical minds for a reason.

Imagine Christ walking around claiming he was the Christ but performed no miracles at all. Or imagine the stone in front of his tomb had never been removed, even to this day and we’re supposed to believe that he’s not in there. Our faith is based upon the fact, the proof having been shown, that Christ did indeed rise.
 
CassiusLonginus said:
I wonder why the sun danced at fatima. Certainly it wasn’t required.

Why did Christ allow Thomas to examine his wounds?

You say faith doesn’t require proof, but this is false. Blind faith is not a good thing, nor does the Church require it of us. Christ made us with analytical minds for a reason.

Imagine Christ walking around claiming he was the Christ but performed no miracles at all. Or imagine the stone in front of his tomb had never been removed, even to this day and we’re supposed to believe that he’s not in there. Our faith is based upon the fact, the proof having been shown, that Christ did indeed rise.
Click to expand...
Is this your “traditional” Catholicism? Never has it been said that “*faith requires proof.” * I would be most appreciative if you can show me any church fathers who have said that. Doesn’t even St. John of the Cross rebuke those who wish to have an apparition, saying that our faith shouldn’t require it?

“Faith believes, nor questions how.”

Faith of Our Fathers
 
Timothysis said:
Is this your “traditional” Catholicism? Never has it been said that “*faith requires proof.” * I would be most appreciative if you can show me any church fathers who have said that. Doesn’t even St. John of the Cross rebuke those who wish to have an apparition, saying that our faith shouldn’t require it?

“Faith believes, nor questions how.”

Faith of Our Fathers
Click to expand...
Our faith doesn’t require it, but The Faith did require proof. It was required that the resurrection provide proof to those that were there so they could pass it on to us. The writers of the Bible verify the truth of those that were there. In that manner we don’t personally require proof, but proof was still required at one time to verify for all ages to come the truth of the resurrection. In other words we don’t need a personal vision. You and I already have our proof, and it was provided us by St. Thomas and others. Don’t you agree?
 
I_Believe said:
Though the Church does not require us to embrace these approved apparitions, I really don’t think I’d trust myself to pass judgment on them and say things that would offend those who do hold devotion to them, and perhaps Our Lady herself.

Discouraging devotion to our Lady of Fatima or dismissing it publicly would seem to please Satan first and foremost. That may not be the intention, but it is certainly the fruit.
Click to expand...
Ah, whose discouraging devotion?Some people were questioning the hullabaloo about the “third” secret-and the conspiracy theories surrounding it.If questioning conspiracy theories seems demeaning to your idea of devotion-so be it.No one mentioned denying the BVM any devotions…That is in your own mind. Stop seeing evil in other people -look to your own soul and stop pretending to know the souls of others.
 
juliamajor said:
The Canon is closed,Revelation is defined.Any extra"revelation" is not to held as having the same authority as the Deposit of Faith.These private encounters are little"extras" but are not necsessary for salvation.
Click to expand...
I_Believe said:
No, but winning souls for Christ ensures our salvation.
Click to expand...
juliamajor said:
Actually it doesn’t ensure your salvation -it makes it more probable but doesn’t insure it.
Besides what does that have to do with that which I wrote?
Click to expand...
I_Believe said:
Though the Church does not require us to embrace these approved apparitions, I really don’t think I’d trust myself to pass judgment on them and say things that would offend those who do hold devotion to them, and perhaps Our Lady herself.

Discouraging devotion to our Lady of Fatima or dismissing it publicly would seem to please Satan first and foremost. That may not be the intention, but it is certainly the fruit.
Click to expand...
juliamajor said:
Ah, whose discouraging devotion?Some people were questioning the hullabaloo about the “third” secret-and the conspiracy theories surrounding it.If questioning conspiracy theories seems demeaning to your idea of devotion-so be it.No one mentioned denying the BVM any devotions…That is in your own mind. Stop seeing evil in other people -look to your own soul and stop pretending to know the souls of others.
Click to expand...
You post mentioning salvation, I reply in agreement with reservations, you then ask a silly question when it’s obvious I didn’t take your words out of context, then you take mine out of context in my next post and twist them to mean what you want them to mean so you can ridicule, contradict, and chastise.

Work on your reading comprehension and get back to me. :rolleyes:
 
CassiusLonginus said:
No, it simply follows from reason. First consecrate Russia and then she’ll stop spreading her error and will convert. This hasn’t happened. The situation is only getting worse. There ya go. Mary says “if you do this, these will be the results”. Where are the results? That’s right, they’re non-existent. When did a pope consecrate Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart? It never happened (unless you think the pope was doing Mary a favor by disobeying her direct order, and instead caving to PC-ness and consecrating ‘the world’ to her. Jesus obeyed His mother, why should the servants be greater than their master? Why should popes feel they are above the Lord and can disobey Mother Mary?). If her instruction had been followed the fruits would have followed in such a way that everybody in the world could clearly see that this was a miraculous event, not one performed by man and his politicking and scheming.

True, but the one they got was able to prove that he was authentic. If the supposed fruits of the supposed consecration take 50 years to come to fruition, who will believe that this was the result of this consecration? Nobody, of course, because there would be nothing in particular to point to the divine. Imagine if Jesus said “your sins are forgiven you, but you’ll only be able to get up and walk in 50 years”, who would take him seriously? Would you? What if he claimed it would take only 5 years instead of 50, would you still disbelieve? Of course, we all would. We’re people; we want to see proof. Consecrate Russia already, will ya?
Click to expand...
We still don’t know the timeline of it and we don’t know what it will look like as it progresses on that timeline. The early Church thought Our Lord’s return was imminent. They were wrong in that it wasn’t, but right in that it always is. And in the end, Her Immaculate Heart WILL triumph.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
We still don’t know the timeline of it and we don’t know what it will look like as it progresses on that timeline. The early Church thought Our Lord’s return was imminent. They were wrong in that it wasn’t, but right in that it always is. And in the end, Her Immaculate Heart WILL triumph.
Click to expand...
Do you think the consecration has already taken place?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top