Fatima's new 9000-people church

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Dempsey1919 said:
The way the pews are arranged is not the problem that I have with this church.

I donā€™t think this church expresses Catholicism completely. Where are the statues of the Virgin and the Saints? Where are the paintings? Where are the stained glass windows? Where is the raised altar? In fact, where is the altar? All I can see is a concrete block. The church looks more like a Protestant meeting hall.
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On that score, we can be hopeful. A priest friend of mine inherited a rather stripped down ā€œmodernā€ parish in his last assignment. In the course of about three years he had much success in, as he would say, ***ā€œCatholicinā€™ up the placeā€. ***

"Statues, icons, some paint here and there, some candles there and hereā€¦ Letā€™s just move this here tabernacle back over hereā€¦ pick out some new altar linens over hereā€¦ invest in some vestments that arenā€™t made of polyesterā€¦ "

It can be done.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Who said new is always better/ Me, Iā€™ll take St Peters Basilica any day over these new so-called churches.
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(TIC alertā€¦)

How backward of you!

Next thing you know, you are going to be saying you prefer vestments and altar appointments made of linens and silk and finer fabrics and not polyester!

Why you are probably even one of those types who thinks fresh fruits and vegetables is even better than canned!

How very un-modern of you! hmpf!
 
The image on the crucifix seems to me to have a closer resemblance to Gumby. This to me is profane.
 
Pardon my ignorance but where was that ā€œbuildingā€ built? I was in Fatima in 1988 and remember the beautiful Basilica and the Chapel where the actual apparitions took place to the left of the Basilica.

I sincerely hope they didnā€™t tear down the Basilica?
 
childofmary1143 said:
Pardon my ignorance but where was that ā€œbuildingā€ built? I was in Fatima in 1988 and remember the beautiful Basilica and the Chapel where the actual apparitions took place to the left of the Basilica.

I sincerely hope they didnā€™t tear down the Basilica?
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I posted earlier in this thread a link that shows all the shrines and monuments that surround this Church. Here it is:

santuario-fatima.pt/portal/index.php?id=1349

It honestly looks like they did a good job. Nothing looks torn down to me šŸ™‚ Iā€™d love to go see it.

Make sure you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. It looks wonderful.
 
The Oakland Cathedral definitely made me think of the Crystal Cathedral right off the bat. Of course, Iā€™m from the city the the Crystal Cathedral is in. Itā€™s a beautiful building, but itā€™s not how I picture a church. The funny part is that itā€™s in a very poor community. It looks completely out of place.
 
anamchara said:
"In my work I ā€¦I ā€¦I ā€¦
**"How would you like this work of yours in Fatima to be remembered?
**I ā€¦ I ā€¦
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What about Mary? What about God? Not a mention in the section quoted, at least. Very telling.
 
hildegaard said:
What about Mary? What about God? Not a mention in the section quoted, at least. Very telling.
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I think people are just looking for more to not like about this Church.

God was mentioned. As Iā€™ve pointed out a few times in this thread, there are shrines and monuments surrounding this Church. And we do not know what detail is in the inside so it is wrong in my opinion to make judgments about this place.
ā€œIt has been said that **God **is in the detail. So I try to extend the first broad conceptual strokes right up to the last detail.ā€
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It actually makes the Taj Mahony look like St. Peterā€™s Basilica.
 
anamchara said:
ā€¦God was mentioned. As Iā€™ve pointed out a few times in this thread, there are shrines and monuments surrounding this Church. And we do not know what detail is in the inside so it is wrong in my opinion to make judgments about this place.
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Sorry, I missed that one reference. But to say that ā€˜they say God is in the detailsā€™ is not quite what I was looking for. Never the less you are right, he did mention God.

I expected something more like ā€˜I envisioned Maryā€¦and thus the building reflectsā€¦ā€™, etc.

I admit, I do not like the building just because of the way it looks. It just does not seem Catholic. Michael E. Jones has an article in the September issue of Culture Wars about modern architecture (Aut Vitrusius Aut Nihil: The Logos of Architecture). Maybe I will read that and see if it helps me understand the motivation for using this type of architechture.
 
This Fatima church is simply shameful. It makes that monstrosity in Los Angeles look Catholic by comparison, although there are similarities of decor. It bears more than a passing resemblance to the Kingdom Hall of Jehovahā€™s Witnesses in Munich located near the BMW factory.
 
I donā€™t really care all that much for some of the exterior furnishings, particularly the Gumby crucifix. The interior looks pretty sweet though. Clean, functional and reverent.

Sometimes I think some peoplesā€™ tastes are all in their mouths.

Someone wrote ā€œThe High Altars. The Statues of Christ, the Virgin and the Saints. The stained glass windows. The crucifixes with the corpus. The central tabernacle. The Stations of the Cross and the paintings. Those were Churches. They expressed Catholic belief perfectly.ā€

Iā€™m not at all sure thatā€™s true ā€“ particularly the ā€œperfectā€ part. While no one should argue for example about the corpus on a crucifix, many could make a good argument that the Stations do not ideally belong in all Catholic naves. All that stuff is neat, but in no way is it universally ā€œperfect.ā€

This Church reminds me a bit of the underground 25,000 seat Basilica of St. Pius X at Lourdes which was built in 1958 ā€“ prior to VC2 and one of my favorite churches anywhere.

I also donā€™t think that the complainers have considered just how many people this church serves and under what types of conditions. While I have never visited it (yet), it does look pretty good.

Job well done.

http://www.lourdes-france.org/upload/images/domaine/basilique-piex1.jpg
The interior of the Basilica of St. Pius X at Lourdes
 
CalCath said:
I also donā€™t think that the complainers have considered just how many people this church serves and under what types of conditions. While I have never visited it (yet), it does look pretty good.

Job well done.
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In that case, wouldnā€™t a simple, low-cost airplane hanger serve just as well? :confused:
 
lepanto said:
In that case, wouldnā€™t a simple, low-cost airplane hanger serve just as well? :confused:
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No.

ā€œLow cost airplane hangersā€ have no heating, ventilation or air conditioning. They arenā€™t insulated. They donā€™t have enough exits/entrances to allow 9,000 people to safely enter and exit. They are not designed for good acoustics. The din of 9,000 in a place that size would be horrible. They donā€™t have audio systems or sacristies. They donā€™t have sloping/tiled floors nor gorgeous marble sanctuaries like this building does. Nor are they built given the topographic challenges of this structure. Nor are they built to last as long as this structure is.

Modify a ā€œLow cost airplane hangerā€ (which arenā€™t low cost to begin with) to exhibit these qualities and it runs into some serious money real quick.

How about we add "ā€œThe High Altars. The Statues of Christ, the Virgin and the Saints. The stained glass windows. The crucifixes with the corpus. The central tabernacle. The Stations of the Cross and the paintingsā€ to a Butler building. Wouldnā€™t the result serve just as well as a purpose-designed church?

No way.
 
CalCath said:
How about we add "ā€œThe High Altars. The Statues of Christ, the Virgin and the Saints. The stained glass windows. The crucifixes with the corpus. The central tabernacle. The Stations of the Cross and the paintingsā€ to a Butler building.
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Those are all good startsā€¦but this new churchā€™s construction and furnishing is completed. Why werenā€™t all those good things you list put into the original plan? Does anybody really expect that this new church is suddenly going to be retrofitted with everything which you mentioned?

(Whatā€™s a Butler building?)
 
lepanto said:
Those are all good startsā€¦but this new churchā€™s construction and furnishing is completed. Why werenā€™t all those good things you list put into the original plan? Does anybody really expect that this new church is suddenly going to be retrofitted with everything which you mentioned?

(Whatā€™s a Butler building?)
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No they arenā€™t necessarily all ā€œgood startsā€ ā€“ I was quoting someone elseā€™s list who suggested the above ā€œā€¦expressed Catholic belief perfectly.ā€ They donā€™t ā€“ certainly not in all cases.

Why werenā€™t they put in the original plan? Let me take two items. First ā€œThe central tabernacle.ā€ Maybe the designer did not want to create a situation where the celebrant would have his back to the Blessed Sacrament while he was at the same time confecting it in front of himself on the altar?

Second, the Stations of the Cross. Because Iā€™m fairly certain the Mass is celebrated many times/day in this church, perhaps there would never be any time for individuals to pray the stations inside the church, so they were installed elsewhere? Maybe the liturgists were also try to place the focus on the miracle upon the altar?

Probably like you, I have never visited this church, but the photograph of its interior looks pretty good to me. Absolutely excellent indirect lighting. the sanctuary is gorgeous as are the pews. I also like the candle nooks. It really is lovely.
 
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