Fear of death? How does one attempt to overcome this fear?

[Charlemagne_II]

AntiTheist

I never really found it all that “sobering,” if only because I had accepted pretty early on that impermanence is the name of the game here.

Impermanence is another word for ultimate annihilation. A very sobering thought. And unless you are absolutely certain there is no God or afterlife (which you can never be) it doesn’t seem comforting to me that one might die in this world only to wake up in another world that you really didn’t want or expect to wake up in.

 

[tonyrey]

If there were a God, I would hope that he would want the best for all his children…

As things are, you expect the worst - apart from having this life forever with all its evil and injustice!

Do you want that love to come to an end?

Well, if there is nothing beyond this life, I suppose it will come to a screeching halt, whether I want it to or not…wishing or believing in a life beyond this one doesn’t automatically make it so, however I desire it…and I do. Who wouldn’t?

Those who believe they will have to atone for their cruelty and neglect. There are advantages in disbelief.
Do you think there is a limit to the beauty that can be created and enjoyed?

Can you imagine yourself never having compassion for others?

I’m a bit confused as to what you are inferring. SO, If I don’t believe that a life exists beyond this one, I can’t have compassion? I’m confused. I don’t quite get what you mean by that remark…

Do you think there will come a time - while you are alive - when you won’t have compassion? In other words do you believe it is important regardless of time or place?

Because the wisdom and power needed to design and create this immense and beautiful system are beyond our comprehension.

Makes sense, in a way…but-I question the actual existence of a heaven…perhaps my description as an atheist my be misleading. I am searching, but all I seem to come up is with the belief that there IS NO God, or gods, whatever. I was a believer, once, a devout believer. I started really challenging the belief system of Christianity and Catholicism in particular when I was a young adult…

Do you have a better explanation of reality?

In other words you think it is too good to be true!

Yes-I do…sorry…but…yep.

No need to say sorry. It’s your right and privilege to decide for yourself - a fact which hardly squares with the notion that we exist for no reason or purpose…

But why should the truth be harsh and cruel?

I don’t think it has to be…well, it just IS, is all. We might not like it, but there it is…

“IS” or “may be”?!

It is always easier to be negative than positive - just as it is easier to destroy than create. It imposes no challenge or obligations on us. Nothing really matters if everything leads to nothing!

But…see, why does there HAVE to be something beyond this life to make it worthwhile?

Because there is a lot of unfinished business! Unfulfilled aspirations, unrectified injustice and unrequited love. Do you want to be separated from your family and friends forever?

Why can’t you enjoy this life on its own terms?

We can enjoy this life up to a point but if it is all we have its value is strictly limited .

WHY does nothing matter if there’s no afterlife??

It does not follow that nothing matters - but if nothing but matter exists then nothing matters** in the long run**! And things in this life matter far less because this life is necessarily incomplete.

But to believe in, and hope for, life after death makes us more responsible for ourselves and others because the consequences of the way we live now will last forever…
Now, see…what worries me to an extent is that in some respects, we are NOT responsible for ourselves and this planet, simply because of a belief that there is something ‘else’ and there is a perfect world waiting for us…if we only have faith in a man called Jesus.

Faith implies not just intellectual assent but also** living** according to His teaching.

So, we can deplete the resources of the planet with abandon, we can justify actions that cause harm to the earth and its fellow man…all in the name of religion.

How do you reach that conclusion? Theists believe we are the stewards not the owners of this planet.

Look at the recent spate of suicide bombers, for example…they are fed the nonsense that Allah will reward them in paradise for killing the infidels…how sad…

That is a distortion of Islamic teaching. Only a few fanatics resort to indiscriminate murder.

Would you prefer never to have been born? Of course not! That is a sign we’re not here by chance.

Then again, perhaps we ARE. We are but a speck in the vast universe…

Do you think significance depends on size or longevity?

The incalculable value of life is evidence (evidence? Where?) that it is not an accident but the prelude to an afterlife in which all tears are wiped away.

There could be no greater crime than giving us the capacity for love and a yearning for perfection only to condemning all of us to eternal oblivion. Why bother to create us in the first place?

Well, again…it’s just nature. We are mammals. My mother and father got together, created me-and, well, here I am.

“nature” is just a word to conceal lack of knowledge! It conceals a materialistic view of life which cannot explain truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty or love…

Granted, some people might have made a conscious effort to create another being, and saw it as a sacred act, others (ahem-like my bio-parents) didn’t. In fact, if abortion had been legal in 1961, I would not be here.

• which goes to show that abortion is evil!

 

[PJM]

=phoenixrrt62;7237878]

Hi, your not alone in not understanding. Let me se if I can clarify it for you.

I’m not sure how you view the ible but we understand it to be God’s Inspired Word. Not didctatd per say; but nevertheless the various authors were inspired by God to write and share about the history and truths He [God} wants us to know.

Ecery human being for all of time is [was /willbe] Created "in the image and likeness of our God. [Genesis Chpt. 1: vrs. 26-27].

We inherit our physical traits from our birth parents. BUT where do we get our “minds” [not speaking of the brain here.] our “Intellect”, or our “freewill” [the ability to freely choose this or that; right or wrong for example?

The very fact that we are dicussing this issue PROVES that we have all three. So if we have them [we all do] then should we not be able to quantify [describe in some specific detail there size, color, weight, shape?]

So when I asked you to quantify for us your freewill I was pointing out that nobody can quantify these gifts. WHY IS THAT? And the answer is that they are Spiritual Gifts.

God is SPIRIT [only Jesus, the Son of God has two complete natures: truly and fully human and at the same time truly and fully God.]

Spiritual Things MUST in an absolute sense come from “another Spiritual Thing.” No other explaination is possible.

What this does my frind is give evidence that God does exist and that God DOES have a key role in our being here.

And that is the first mesage I wished to share with you.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Janet1983]

I am here at work…well, killing time and thinking…and looking all over your site…to see what people, religious people in particular, think about death.

Of course, it’s something we can’t escape…we will all face it-some sooner than later. I recall one of my greatest fears when I started to realize that there was no omnipresent being that guided our destiny…was-well…this life is all we have. That’s it. That’s all.
What a sobering thought.

The type of job I have lends me to witness death…well, more than I desire, for sure…and-some people are so afraid to face it…they would rather see a loved one suffer-suffer terribly because of that fear…the fear of the unknown…of what lies beyond.
Now, me…I don’t know quite what to think. I tend to think that when we die…well, that’s all…but I do wonder. I wonder if our soul lives on. I don’t know.

However…what do you say to someone who is religious, is looking death in the face, and is afraid? What do you say? What do you do? I’d venture to say that I would be pretty cruel if I were to tell someone who is religious that I thought there was nothing.

Hum. What do you all think? IS there something else?

I am not afraid to die. The only thing that sometimes unsettles me is the question how I will die. I know where I am going and I know what I believe in. The how is what sometimes makes me slightly nervous.
Considering the way Jesus died or the way that some missionaries died and still die, I get somewhat nervous. Would I want to be tortured to death? No. Would I want to be stoned to death? No. Would I renounce my faith to save my life? No.

It’s not the fact that I will die that worries me. It’s the how that worries me.
But then again, I know that I will never be alone and that this life is short…

 

[AntiTheist]

Well, yes. However, there’s another way to look at it…just throwing this out there, because I do wonder of there IS another life beyond, and we have a soul that transcends death…things never really cease to exist, but they take on another form, etc. You know…the body returns to the carbon atoms that they were once upon a time…and cease to function as a human body. Am I making sense? Perhaps not…

You’re making sense, but you’re not really approaching the subject critically. You’re just reacting emotionally and holding on to this vain hope that your life will continue after you die.

Certainly, the molecules that comprise your being will still exist – they will become parts of other things. But the thing that you call you will cease to exist. This is the point of the “where does your fist go when you open your hand?” question.

A “fist” is just a name for your hand in a certain state. Similarly, “you” is just a name for molecules in a certain state. Those molecules will always exist; but they won’t always be “you.” “You” is temporary.

How you explain away all the ghost sightings? How do you explain away the NDE’s? Are all these people off their rockers? I kind of doubt it. There’s that. I can’t toss that out…I have to consider it. You know? Have you ever wondered about that? Just curious…

Well, we know that the human mind is very easy to fool. NDE’s seem to be nothing more than the brain freaking out as it goes through the process of death – I mean, if there really were an afterlife, why would there be little consistency in NDE reports? Why would Hindus see Hindu gods during NDE’s and Christians see Christian gods? Why don’t we have widespread reports of Hindus seeing Jesus when they almost die? Or vice versa?

And ghosts? Well, if they’re real, we should be able to detect them by some means. Or at least they should appear to independent, skeptical observers. Why is it that they only always appear in such a way that seems like day dreams or night dreams?

Again, I understand why you want to believe in these things, but I think your desire for an afterlife is preventing you from utilizing proper amounts of skepticism for these truly extraordinary claims.

 

[AntiTheist]

You have chosen to ignore that someone…Oh… what was his name? Oh yeah, CHRIST rose again… from the dead… And many have come back in modern day world.

I have not seen suficient evidence for thinking that anyone has ever returned from death, the supposed “Christ” or anyone else.

But yes, I realize the need to discount their experience as well. Everyone that saw it “wanted” to see it. Or was hallucinating, or something other than actually seeing this.

If you’re talking about ghost sightings, yes, I think that those experiences are almost entirely explained by various psychological phenomena. If ghosts were real, then they should be detectable by skeptical observers.

If you’re talking about legends of “Christ” “rising from the dead,” then no, I don’t trust myths that were written down decades after the event by cult members who worshipped a legendary figure from earlier in the century.

 

[Irishrosebeauty]

You know, I really do not fear death. I actually look forward to seeing Jesus and Mary and all of the saints that I have prayed to. Life here is not all that it can be. I had a dear friend who was such a great person and she told me that hell was on earth. I cannot disagree with her. We all have such trials and disappointments and we wonder where is God. Yet in the end we will find out why all of these hardships came our way. Everyday I either worry or agonize. Haven would be such a pleasing. As my sainted mother once said, “I just hope I make it to Purgatory.” Love Rose

 

[po18guy]

Again, I understand why you want to believe in these things, but I think your desire for an afterlife is preventing you from utilizing proper amounts of skepticism for these truly extraordinary claims.

One of faith speaks of what they know: the extraordinary - the supernatural. Do you cavalierly dismiss the supernatural just because you have not personally experienced it? Perhaps because you refuse to experience it?

 

[po18guy]

You’re making sense, but you’re not really approaching the subject critically. You’re just reacting emotionally and holding on to this vain hope that your life will continue after you die.

As one who has certainly not experienced death, let alone what transpires after, how on earth can you postulate your personal opinion as fact? In truth, you cannot speak definitively to either position. Have you not assumed a negative which cannot be proved or disproved?

 

[AntiTheist]

Do you cavalierly dismiss the supernatural just because you have not personally experienced it?

No. I dismiss it because there is no good evidence for it.

Personal anecdotes are not evidence – it is very common for people to talk themselves into thinking that they have experienced all kinds of supernatural phenomenon. For example, there are millions of Hindus who will tell you of their experience of their gods; ancient pagan religions are filled with people who had experiences of their gods; there are millions of modern day Christians who claim to have experiences of the same god who – apparently – gave them all contradictory messages as to which denomination’s doctrines are true.

There is not a shred of good evidence that anything supernatural exists.

 

[po18guy]

No. I dismiss it because there is no good evidence for it.

Um, you demand natural evidence for the “supernatural”? You’re kidding, right?

Personal anecdotes are not evidence – it is very common for people to talk themselves into thinking that they have experienced all kinds of supernatural phenomenon. For example, there are millions of Hindus

You have lapsed into simple stereotyping here. Come on, you have intellect - use it. Defend your rock-solid belief in nothing. We demand evidence of nothing before we will believe in it!

 

[BlueShadow123]

Every single person will face death sometime. I don’t think one should fear it. Its the cycle of life. Even if you die from something other than natural causes, there is nothing to fear per-say (at the time of death, you cannot escape it). Unless of course you believe in god and think you could go to hell. That is something to fear. Other than that, death is just a typical cycle of life that all animals (including humans) go through. I think the fear of death is either the thought of hell, or the feeling of physically pain. Maybe even the thought of non-existence. Nobody can begin to comprehend the thought of non-existence. When you think of ‘non-existence’ you probably think of just pitch black darkness. Well, where there is no existence, there is no ‘black darkness’. There is just ‘nothing’. Which is completely IMPOSSIBLE for one to comprehend because we do not have the ability to understand that. Just like how science says there is nothing outside of the universe. Well its just too impossible to comprehend. So basically I think the fear of death is one of these:

1. hell or some sort of possible bad reincarnation
2. physical pain during death
3. the thought of non-existence

I may be wrong, but that is my personal opinion.

Edit: almost forgot… you said how to overcome the fear of death? I think that is impossible. Because the few seconds before death, you don’t know what is going through a persons mind. It could be fear, pain, happiness, who the heck knows. So you cannot really escape a feeling of death because it could happen before your death. I think when it comes to death, the best thing to do is while you are alive, try to accept that it is part of the cycle of life. You cannot escape death when it comes knocking at your door. When you are dead you are dead, and thats it. We will all know what it feels like to die right before it happens. And I don’t think its anything to look forward to nor be afraid of. Its just a part of life.

 

[PJM]

=AntiTheist;7240478]You’re making sense, but you’re not really approaching the subject critically. You’re just reacting emotionally and holding on to this vain hope that your life will continue after you die.

Certainly, the molecules that comprise your being will still exist – they will become parts of other things. But the thing that you call you will cease to exist. This is the point of the “where does your fist go when you open your hand?” question.

A “fist” is just a name for your hand in a certain state. Similarly, “you” is just a name for molecules in a certain state. Those molecules will always exist; but they won’t always be “you.” “You” is temporary.

Again, I understand why you want to believe in these things, but I think your desire for an afterlife is preventing you from utilizing proper amounts of skepticism for these truly extraordinary claims.

***May I interject?

I’m surprised that you and everyone for that matter does accept the idea of an after life. HERES WHY*

Humanity for all of time is BOTH physical and Spiritual. Physical elements are inherited from our birth parents and the Spiritual elements from the one we call “our God.”

Our Spiritual elements are our “Minds” [not speakinng of the brain here], our “intellects” our “freewill” and our souls. ONLY humanity is BLESSED with the first three. And ONLY in humanity are these connected to our souls.

We can know these exisr by virtue of the conversation we are having; yet if I were to ask you quantify for us your “freewill” for example; providing us with it’s color, shape, size, weight, you would not be able too as they are Spiritual.

What is physical can and does die; but what is Spiritual can neither be killed or die. So our “Spiritual selves” MUST [an certainly do live on forever]. Not only that but every “spiritual self” throught all of history is uniquely different. No two are identical.

I’ll await yor responce to this before proceeding further.

God bless,
Pat**

 

[faithfully]

-well…yes.
But. (and yeah, always a ‘but’) I’ve sensed things and seen things that make me wonder. I-well, I just don’t know. I may SEE nothing…but-see, there is that nagging thought that makes me wonder…

Given that you’ve had this experience, I think it’s worth investigating further. I have yet, and probably never will figure out why some people hear and see things that others don’t. Although I speculate that those that don’t have taught themselves to ignore and not listen. In a way that a mother can tune out constant chatter. In a way that we can forget the pains of childbirth enough to contemplate doing THAT again… And of course, you SHOULD question anything that you hear or see.

I’ve had two experiences that I think are reasonable examples of seeing without wanting to. And of course these are MY experiences and certainly have not been sanctioned… But I have NO WAY of explaining them… without the existance of God, and The Other Side… Both are seeing a person when I could not possibly have. Because they were both very recently dead. Only I didn’t know it yet. Now, I can’t prove this to anyone, I can’t repeat it. I was not given any sort of message. But this sort of thing lines up with stories you hear about people just “knowing” that a loved one died, or they felt them… something like that. I do know that I’m not crazy. And I do know these event took place PRIOR to knowing that anyone died.

You are wise to question your experiences…

The thing is we question things we can’t fathom. We certainly can’t fathom everything out there… can we?

 

[winagain]

I have scanned many of the answers on here and I am by far most moved by the response of compassion with the standpoint of the ones suffering the loss. No words can suffice as well, it seems, as simply being there for someone in their time of need. For those who have no inner peace about such things, I don’t know what to say–to them.

I used to be a very devout and deeply devotional Roman Catholic. That kind of ended for me on the day that I had, I’m not sure, and NDE, or something. But I learned something about myself and the nature of being human that changed my life. I went from believing in God to knowing that God IS. But that God is not the God of religious devotion, but something far more wonderful beyond words. No religion can, or at least has, to the best of my knowledge, expressed what I now know. God is not a matter of faith or belief or intellectual assertion or of description of any kind. But that is my experience, and it is not something I can rightfully expect others to take up without having the same kind of insight that I did. But there are many who have, and the consistency of reports from even ages past encourages me that I was not just dreaming.

But there are two statements that remind me of what our condition actually is. Here they are:

“The Real does not die; the unreal never lived. Once you know that death happens to the body and not to you, you just watch your body falling off like a discarded garment. The Real you is timeless and beyond birth and death. The body will survive as long as it is needed. It is not important that it should live long.”

And:

“This is always already the other world.”

I remember a night maybe ten years ago I spent in the ICU. There was a man dying in the bed across from me. His name was George. He kept asking the doctors, staff, and family to let him go. I do’t know how many times they resuscitated the poor bastard. I was in tears by the end of the night. He was done, knew it, wanted it, and they would not let him go. I remember him to this day. I hope that when my time comes that I have someone like you, Phoenix, who at least might care what’s happening from a perspective not your own. I was moved by JRKH’s response as well.

For your part, you might take a look at EK Ross" work about death and dying, if you haven’t already, and maybe find out something about NDE’s and such. Saved by the Light by Dannion Brinkley is a good one.

Thanks for having the courage to broach such a topic. It reveals a caring heart on your part. Blessings on you!