Fed up with irreverence

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I attend daily mass (NO), although I prefer the EF that I attend on Sundays. I have come to a crossroads. I know that the OF is valid and that it can indeed be celebrated reverently, but somehow I cannot stomach the irreverence showed by some priests in the NO. It’s almost as if some priests make a political statement of being irreverent. I’m fed up with priests shaking hand with the whole congregation at the sign of peace. I’m fed up with EM at almost all masses. I long for the EF. I don’t know where to turn so I turn to Our Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, O Lord, is this the worship we , your holy Church should give to you? You, who have loved us so much that you died on the cross for our redemption. Is this the way we should conduct ourselves in your most holy presence? Frankly I’m not into parish shopping, but I’m looking for a parish that exclusively celebrates the EF.
Could you give me some advice?
Yep,…continue going to the EF. You prefer it.
Would it be bad for me to give up daily mass?
Can’t say, but if you dislike it as much as you say you do, are you really getting anything out of it?
Could this be the Lord testing my humility?
For me to comment on what* I* think Christ would either be doing or not be doing for you would be pretty stupid of me,… to say the least.

If I were in your shoes,…I’d take a long well deserved break from that particular offering of the daily mass, and see if you miss it.

I don’t miss the NO, and as long as the EF is offered within a hundred miles of my house,…I will never go back.
 
Yep,…continue going to the EF. You prefer it.
Can’t say, but if you dislike it as much as you say you do, are you really getting anything out of it?
Every time that we participate in the Liturgy of the Mass we are nurtured by the spoken Word of God in the Scriptures, we are present at Calvary with Christ, we are united with him through communion. From the perspective of Catholic teaching, there is a great deal that the soul gains from participation in the liturgy in any form.
If I were in your shoes,…I’d take a long well deserved break from that particular offering of the daily mass, and see if you miss it.
To suggest that someone stay away from liturgy, because they feel discomfort is very poor spiritual guidance. One must never stay away from the Eucharist. It’s not a matter of whether or not one misses it. It is a matter of what the soul is missing.
I don’t miss the NO, and as long as the EF is offered within a hundred miles of my house,…I will never go back.
That is not a requirement for the union between the soul and God. One can absent oneself from the OF forever, as long as one does not absent oneself from the Eucharistic Christ who is the apex of Divine love and for whom we all aspire.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
I attend daily mass (NO), although I prefer the EF that I attend on Sundays. I have come to a crossroads. I know that the OF is valid and that it can indeed be celebrated reverently, but somehow I cannot stomach the irreverence showed by some priests in the NO. It’s almost as if some priests make a political statement of being irreverent. I’m fed up with priests shaking hand with the whole congregation at the sign of peace. I’m fed up with EM at almost all masses. I long for the EF. I don’t know where to turn so I turn to Our Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, O Lord, is this the worship we , your holy Church should give to you? You, who have loved us so much that you died on the cross for our redemption. Is this the way we should conduct ourselves in your most holy presence? Frankly I’m not into parish shopping, but I’m looking for a parish that exclusively celebrates the EF.

Could you give me some advice?
Would it be bad for me to give up daily mass?
Could this be the Lord testing my humility?
The question you have to ask yourself is this: Why is it that you attend daily mass to begin with? Is it to feel good about a particular experience or is it to receive our Lord in the Eucharist?

If it is the first, to feel good about an experience, then only you can answer whether you should give up the daily mass.

If it is the second, why give up our Lord in the Eucharist on a daily basis if you can do so?

Maybe the test (which is not from our Lord perhaps) is not about humility but about motivation?

Just a thought.
 
Every time that we participate in the Liturgy of the Mass we are nurtured by the spoken Word of God in the Scriptures, we are present at Calvary with Christ, we are united with him through communion. From the perspective of Catholic teaching, there is a great deal that the soul gains from participation in the liturgy in any form.
Not if you’re distracted in any way by the many things you think are wrong, which is one of the reasons I believe Pope Benedict presented us with the Motu Proprio.
To suggest that someone stay away from liturgy, because they feel discomfort is very poor spiritual guidance. One must never stay away from the Eucharist. It’s not a matter of whether or not one misses it. It is a matter of what the soul is missing.
The OP is going to Mass every Sunday, a Mass he not only longs for, but enjoys.
That is not a requirement for the union between the soul and God. One can absent oneself from the OF forever, as long as one does not absent oneself from the Eucharistic Christ who is the apex of Divine love and for whom we all aspire.
Very true indeed,…but again; the OP indicated he is participating in the EF of the Mass every Sunday.
 
Not if you’re distracted by the many things you think are wrong with what you’re participating in at that particular time.
What Grace does in the soul is independent of what goes on around you. Even if you’re distracted, the soul is not distracted and neither is Grace. The liturgy is not dependent on our action to dispense grace, but on Divine action. We must do the best we can to celebrate liturgy with beauty, dignity and reverence. But it is not the beauty, the dignity or the reverence that makes the liturgy, it is Grace.

If we assume that grace cannot operate because of distractions, then we run the risk of saying that distractions are more powerful than Grace. Grace is defined as Divine life. Divine life cannot be reduced by any human distraction. The only thing that affects the effects of Divine Life is sin in the individual soul, not what happens around the soul.
The OP is going to Mass every Sunday. Going to a Mass he says he enjoys.
The OP also wants to go to daily mass. Daily mass is a must for the contemplative soul. We do not make much progress in the contemplative life with just Sunday mass. Whether we enjoy it or not, is irrelevant. In fact, one of the stages of true contemplation is spiritual dryness at which point we must rely on our knowledge of God, because we find no statisfaction in the liturgy or our prayer life. But we continue forward with it, because the intellect tells us that God is there Always act on intellect. Always assume that God is close, even when you feel far. Christ promised “I shall not leave you orphans.” and “I shall be with you until the end of time.”

A good book to read on this is Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light. It’s a collection of her private journals. Another is Introduction to the Devout Life by Francis de Sales. Both make it very clear that God’s grace is operative more when we feel no satisfaction, than when we do. It’s part of the contemplative journey.

Both also help us understand the mystery of the Eucharist and how independent it is from what human beings do. What we do out of reverence is a sign of our love for God. It is not a sign of everyone else’s love for God. We cannot make ourselves responsible or uncomfortable by the actions of others.

Mystical discipline requires that we pray through this stage on the spiritual journey to the point where we are so absorbed in the mystery of the Eucharist that the world is not there.

Common sense tells us that if the priest is doing something that invalidates the mass or the Church tells us that we should not be at that mass, then we don’t belong there. But if the mass is valid and authorized by the Church, everything else takes a back seat to our contemplative journey.

The purpose of going to mass is to be in communion with Christ and with the Church. As long as this communion is possible, the rest we can pray through. In fact, there may be great merit in praying through distractions. This is how most saints became holy.

St. Teresa of Avila and Mother Teresa of Calcuta always found Christ’s apparitions and locutions to be a distraction. They often complained to him that this was distracting. Of course Christ would just continue to do his thing, until both eventually learned to accept the situation without feeling uncomfortable. In fact, Teresa of Avila even developed a great sense of humour regarding these distractions caused by the Lord and others caused by humans.

In her autobiography she says that she asked the Lord why he allowed so many distractions during her prayer and her mass. The Lord’s simple answer was the problem were not the distractions, but the distracted. She said to him, “For once, can you ever let me win an argument?”

This is how we become holy. Through intense contemplation in the midst of whatever happens and a holy sense of humour.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
“If we assume that grace cannot operate because of distractions, then we run the risk of saying that distractions are more powerful than Grace. Grace is defined as Divine life. Divine life cannot be reduced by any human distraction.”

Grace is defined as a “share” in Divine life, and one only recieves the share he is predisposed to recieve.

If your mind is off in the wild blue yonder, you’re probably not very likely to receive much grace.
 
“If we assume that grace cannot operate because of distractions, then we run the risk of saying that distractions are more powerful than Grace. Grace is defined as Divine life. Divine life cannot be reduced by any human distraction.”

Grace is defined as a “share” in Divine life, and one only recieves the share he is predisposed to recieve.

If your mind is off in the wild blue yonder, you’re probably not very likely to receive much grace.
My dearest brother:

The grace that we receive is not dependent on us, but on God’s mercy. It is true that we must be predisposed to receive his grace; but this means but we must make ourselves available.

It is one thing to deliberately seek other objects of attention while at prayer, liturgical or other, and to be involuntarily distracted. Involuntary distractions happen to anyone in any circumstances.

What the individual who is looking for true and mystical union with the Divine must do is to bear up with these involuntary distractions by recognizing that they exist and continuing on the path of contemplation.

The path of contemplation is not an easy one; but it is for everyone. Regardless of where one is, the Eucharist must be the total object of our love and attention. When our attention is directed elsewhere, here is an opportunity to present to God our own weakness and to join it to the sacrifice of Christ on the altar of love.

Rather than try to avoid the distraction by staying away from the daily Eucharist, we must do as St. Teresa advices. We must recognize that the problem is not with the distraction, but with the distracted.

Therefore, we must intensify our prayer and unite our distractions to the sacrifice of the cross.

Of course, if the OP had access to the Extraordinary Form for daily mass, the matter would probably be simpler. But as that is not the case, then there is no other solution but to continue where one can come to true union with Christ and his Church, despite the human element. God is conscious of our circumstances and of our heart’s desire.

I am sure that those souls who prefer the Extraordinary Form (EF) seek to contemplate Christ and to be united to him at the Mystical Marriage ceremony that is in store for every soul who loves God. They do not attend the Extraordinary Form of the mass because they like it. They attend because it moves them deeper into contemplation of the mystery of God. The same is true for those who attend the Ordinary Form.

Those who attend either form because it makes them feel good are completely unaware of the great act of love that Grace is working in their soul. Thankfully, God loves us enough to work within us despite us. Look at Paul and Augustine.

Unfortunately, we do not have enough celebrations of the Extraordinary Form to have a daily celebration of the Eucharist in every parish, using this form. The soul who is hungry for mystical union cannot wait for this to happen.

But we should not worry. For every difficulty that we encounter at prayer, including the liturgy, if it is faced with great humility and we ask for God’s favour to overcome it, it shall be overcome in his Divine time.

On the other hand, were we to give up our daily Eucharist, because of the form or some human weakness on the part of others, regardless of the form, we would be giving up the most sublime opportunity to be physically united to Christ and his people, especially the poor.

Despite the distractions, the truth of the physical union can never be denied. The share in the Divine life that proceeds from the Eucharistic union is essential to our faith and therefore must be accepted as well.

Therefore, to be consistence with our Catholic Tradition of contemplation, we must urge every person who seeks union of his soul with the Divine to procure to participate in the liturgy of the Eucharist as frequently as possible, daily if it’s available, regardless of the form or the weaknesses of others.

We are not judged on the weaknesses of others, but on the love that we invest into loving him who is Love.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
I am reading that particular post in context with other posts from that individual…:cool:
Just to let you know, I’ve been to 3 SSPX masses (mostly out of curiosity and because there was no other TLM at that time) in my whole life, I never recieved communion there. I’m NOT a SSPX supporter. The so called ordinary Catholics have ridiculed and ostrazised traditionalist for far to long…if you cannot follow the Lord’s greatest and most important commandment, that of love of God and neighbour I wonder if you’re really that serious about the Catholic faith to begin with.😉
 
I am reading that particular post in context with other posts from that individual…:cool:
Just letting you know, I’m not a SSPX supporter. However, I’m not a sr Chittister supporter either, as some, for obvious reasons.:cool:
 
Thanks for all the good advice. I’ll still attend daily mass until I find it in the EF. Just to let you know I have nothing against the OF, it’s just that it’s easier for a bad priest to abuse the OF than the EF. (Besides I’m still quite distracted by seeing the priests face all the time, it’s Jesus we should focus on not the priest)
 
Hey eelpis,

Have you considered asking your weekday priest for an EF? If there’s a stable group who, like you, go every day and who may also want the EF instead of the OF, some accomodation must be made.
 
Thanks for all the good advice. I’ll still attend daily mass until I find it in the EF. Just to let you know I have nothing against the OF, it’s just that it’s easier for a bad priest to abuse the OF than the EF. (Besides I’m still quite distracted by seeing the priests face all the time, it’s Jesus we should focus on not the priest)
You have reminded me of something that our holy father Francis once said. “If I were to meet an angel and the most sinful priest in the world, I would first kneel before the priest, because only through him do we see and taste the physical presence of Christ among us.”

Do not be afraid of the distraction that the priest’s face may produce. When you are looking at his face, this is a good moment to meditate on the greatness of God and the sacrament of Holy Orders. It is an opportunity to think of how humble God is that he submits to the words of the priest to become present on the altar.

I am also reminded of Blessed Mother Teresa whose life straddled the changes in the liturgy and who always saw in the priest’s face the face of Christ. For when a cleric is celebrating the liturgy, no matter how sinful he may be, he is doing what even angels cannot do. He is changing bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.

As to bad priests, that is for God to judge, not us. We are all bad in some ways and saints in other ways.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
To everyone making excuses for awfully done masses, and then throwing blame at the people who are upset/outraged that our Lord has to put up with this: Of course the Eucharist is the source and summit, we get that…thanks ever so much. But for cryin’ out loud, our Lord deserves far better, he’s GOD, for Pete’s sake!

This convert will never understand how anyone can defend liturgical slop, and by placing blame on those hurt/offended by it, that is exactly what you’re doing. :mad:

I live in a liturgical wasteland (AKA The Diocese of San Bernardino, CA) How is it wrong for me to want Jesus to be treated with the respect he deserves? One of the purposes of liturgy is to draw us closer to Christ, NOT to drive us nuts because of abuses by the “Vatican 2 much” crowd. (I love Vatican 2 btw, I just can’t stand the abuses of it.) When you’re NOT offended by bad liturgy, THAT is a problem. And yes, I understand that the Church has gone through rough times before, but I live NOW, and this issue is a problem NOW.
 
No. No valid form of the Mass is superior, objectively or subjectively to any other. No other rite of Mass or Divine Liturgy from our Eastern brothers and sisters is superior OR inferior to any other. Any form of the Mass/Divine Liturgy may or may not be done according to it’s rubrics, but that in no way reflects on the quality of the liturgy, it reflects on the quality of those performing the liturgy.
Here are the texts of the two missals compared side by side.

geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/5816/compare.html

Read this and let me know what you think.
 
I am reading that particular post in context with other posts from that individual…:cool:
That’s fine, because you’re right. I am very pro-SSPX. I don’t want anyone to be confused. My favorite is the ICKSP, and I’ve never been to an SSPX Chapel. Still, though I can’t stand their rhetoric, I agree with some of their positions, especially their liturgical stance.

I also admire the life and deeds of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and pray to him, because in my opinion, he is a true hero.

With that said, there are also things Pope John Paul II did that I admire, and I admire the current Pope above all.

I was seven when those notorious consecrations happened, so all of this antagonism on both sides doesn’t mean a whole lot to me, personally. I can admire all three men.
 
Thank you PrayforMallory. Excellent comparison. I’ll take reverence any day. The EF text is far superior. God bless you!
 
That’s fine, because you’re right. I am very pro-SSPX. I don’t want anyone to be confused. My favorite is the ICKSP, and I’ve never been to an SSPX Chapel. Still, though I can’t stand their rhetoric, I agree with some of their positions, especially their liturgical stance.

I also admire the life and deeds of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and pray to him, because in my opinion, he is a true hero.

With that said, there are also things Pope John Paul II did that I admire, and I admire the current Pope above all.

I was seven when those notorious consecrations happened, so all of this antagonism on both sides doesn’t mean a whole lot to me, personally. I can admire all three men.
Preach it! Glory! Amen! (Can you tell that I’m a former Protestant? LOL) 👍
 
Just letting you know, I’m not a SSPX supporter. However, I’m not a sr Chittister supporter either, as some, for obvious reasons.:cool:
All of the schmaltzy feel-good advice in the world isn’t going to help you. You have eyes to see, ears to hear, and a mind to think about the reality of your situation. When you go to Mass on Sunday, ask the priest about it in the confessional. I’m sure he will be able to give you some practical and edifying advice.
 
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