Fed up with phony confirmations

[Tietjen]

I can’t tell you how fed up I am with the great majority of “in-name-only”, hatch-match-dispatch catholics who come in for christening marriage and funerals and you never see them otherwise.

I’ll try to be charitable with this but if you become offended I’ll hope you’ll forgive me.

First, don’t judge the hearts of “the great majority” of Catholics. That ability is within the realm of God ONLY. You do NOT know the circumstances surrounding these situations, so don’t pretend to. How many masses does your parish have on Sunday? Do you go and check out everyone to see who attends and who doesn’t? What about the Saturday evening mass? Are you sure that these “in-name-only” Catholics aren’t in attendance there too?

Of particular distaste to me is the confirmations that come in as a routine from the local catholic schools.

Strange… most Catholics celebrate confirmations. You, however, find them distasteful. Hmm…

These people never come to church any other week of the year but when little jonny or jenny is getting confirmed they all arrive with cameras popping. The little dears parade in their suits and white dresses looking like debutantes all sparkled up with cubic zirconia necklaces. They all bring a vast array of family and friends many of whom exhibit little knowledge or respect for the church or its liturgy. The vast majority of all these people go up for the sacrament. Who are all these people? Where have they all come from? The whole mass becomes a circus. The car park is full and everyone thinks look how many people are going to church. But they aren’t. They’re not going to church. They are going to a family event.

Still trying to be charitable here, honest.

Perhaps there are circumstances that you are unaware of.

1. Perhaps Dad is a police officer, doctor, nurse, deputy, firefighter, truck driver, (or a host of other occupations that require him to work on Sundays). Maybe Mom, who may not even be a Catholic doesn’t attend mass because she doesn’t feel welcome by those who might judge her, without her husband being in attendance.
2. Perhaps they attend a different mass time than you do.
3. Perhaps they live in another parish far away but the Bishop of your diocese is a family friend or maybe he even confirmed them when they were younger and they want to have their child confirmed by him.

As for all the family and friends who come to see this joyous occasion, perhaps you don’t see them every Sunday because they live, work, and attend mass 100s of miles away but have come to witness this occasion to show support and love for their niece, nephew, grandchild, etc on the special day.

If you can’t find parking because these people take up too many parking spaces, then turn around and go to mass later that day or go to mass at another parish, or park a block away and walk… just stop complaining that there are people showing up for mass! It’s obvious that this is important to them or they wouldn’t be there.

Meanwhile the true Catholics who attend week in and week out with a reverent heart and spirit are distracted from their worship and the sacredness of the mass is spoiled by this great influx.

Do you think that when the Holy Father looks out at Saint Peters, he says, “Nope, I’m not celebrating mass today. There are too many people out there.”??? I’ve been to St. Peters, if you think that parking at your parish is difficult, I can tell you that it is nothing compared to finding a place to park anywhere near Vatican City.

What is of particular distaste to me is that this charade turns the confirmation into a kind of social rite, no different to a debutante. When there is a true confirmation being said with a family and young person who attend faithfully every week you find your joy is robbed because you are forever seeing these sham events.

So, in your estimation, the confirmation ceremony that occurs, when you don’t recognize the participants or their families, is a sham? The Holy Spirit says, “not today excubitor hasn’t seen any of these people before.”???

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[Tietjen]

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I’m not sure what the solution is, but one remedy might be to go back to the old idea of the Mass of the Faithful and the Mass of the Catechumens. Let’s make it quite clear that the mass is for the “Faithful” and that unfaithful people should not be there. And if the mass is only for the faithful then the other sacred sacraments also are only available for the faithful.

And who judges whether or not a man’s heart is faithful? You? Who judges whether a man, woman, or child is worthy of receiving Holy Communion? You again? Who decides whether or not someone may go to confession, be baptized, be confirmed, get married, become ordained, or be anointed during their last hours on earth? excubitor? I am a cradle Catholic who attends mass and I would not like to be responsible for deciding who can and cannot receive the sacraments.

I know that is not the rule of the church today but this approach might restore holiness to the mass.

No, it would fracture the Church. It would lock the Church doors to the people that need it the most. Christ was criticized for associating with prostitutes, tax collectors, the unclean, etc.

Vatican II and Pope John Paul II repeatedly called for holiness in the “universall call to holiness”.

Not by exclusion it/he didn’t.

Holiness must start in each Catholic, then Catholic’s assembled together at mass so that our masses are as holy as they might possibly be. The mass is an offering to God, it should be a holy offering from a holy people.

What people are holy? ONLY God is holy; mankind is flawed. If you exclude the flawed, who would be present for the mass?

Numbers are not so important.

The great commission told to the Apostles was a command by Christ to go into ALL the world sharing the Good News, not just to the “holy” in the world.

With ever more sacred and holy masses being offered each week then holiness shall begin to reach into the world like light reaching into the darkness.

Not if the doors are closed to the world it won’t.

Confirmation is a sacred sacrament, not a social rite of passage. We really need to get back to basics.

Confirmation is a sacred sacrament AND a celebration. Rejoice that there are those who wish to be confirmed and help them to stay the course within God’s Church.

 

[teachccd]

I wonder how Jesus’ post in this thread would read…

Funny how this post got hidden…

 

[Tietjen]

I say let’s put Confirmation back to baptism, like it was in the ancient Church and how it is done in the Eastern Rites and Orthodox Churches. Then we won’t have to deal with the teen age Confirmation/graduation dilemma. Those who want to be practicing Catholics will continue to grow in their faith and those who don’t won’t have to go through the charade.

Are you speaking this Ex Cathedral? If not, you’ll pardon me if I look to the Church for decisions concerning Catholic teaching.

 

[Tietjen]

I would be careful with this. The Catholic Church is not exclusive. Who is to say that someone (a lukeware Catholic, say) might not be moved while attending mass after a long absence (one of those “unfaithful” folks you refer to) to get back to the sacracments and the regular attendance at mass. Who are we to decide how the Holy Spirit works?

The unfaithful should not be there? And who is to decide who the “unfaithful” are? Do you have a window into their souls? No, you don’t, so you would do better to concentrate on yourself. Remove the plank in your eye, before the splinter in someone else’s.

Ishii

 

[ProVobis]

The unfaithful should not be there?

I would not say they “should not” be there, but I would say that shouldn’t be counted as faithful. We don’t know the exact number of those present who are indeed faithful and who are not but we can’t assume that they all are. A lot of people will always come out for a “free show,” after all.

 

[ProVobis]

I wonder how Jesus’ post in this thread would read…

I don’t know, but my mother used to tell me that when Jesus comes back, it will be with a stronger whip.

 

[Tietjen]

**2477 **Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

You do not know that the other people attending are not Catholics who practice in their home parishes, but have traveled to celebrate with family and friends. You also assume that the person being Confirmed is from your local Parish.

My Confirmation is at a different church to the one I attend, would you assume that I was a lapsed or unserious Catholic because you have not seen me before? Would you also assume that any family I bring who are from other parts of the country are also unserious Catholics because you have not seen them before.

I must say, you should reconsider your uncharitable point of view. It is unfortunate that people will recieve sacraments improperly, but it is not your place to go about judging others.

Amen!

 

[CDNowak]

which is?

isn’t it common now for kids/teens to be confirmed around 12-16 in most archdiocese?

The canonical age for the sacrament is the age of reason (ie 7). Sadly few dioceses don’t withhold Confirmation for as many years as the child could licitly have received it.

I would also support Joannm’s suggestion of reuniting all three sacraments of initiation, but that would require several changes to canon law.

 

[ProVobis]

I say let’s put Confirmation back to baptism

Don’t you need time after baptism to fully accept Christianity into your life? I don’t understand why you simply want to get it over with.

 

[Sarabande]

Although I do understand the frustration one would have seeing people who don’t practice their faith at all come in for the Sacraments, I don’t think it is right to judge just based on what we see unless we really know those people.

For instance, when we celebrated our First Holy Communion, First Penance, and Confirmation, there were many children and teens who were actually from other parishes. You wouldn’t have seen these people at mass on Sundays because they were in their own parishes. Another example is that perhaps these people don’t actually attend the parish where they are registered and attend a different one. My husband and I have and still do this. At first, we were registered at a parish near where we lived, but because we both were involved at a parish downtown (we had special ties there since college), we were hardly ever at our official parish. We eventually changed parishes because of it. Now, I have a professional music position at another parish, so we’re never at this parish anymore either since we believe it’s important to attend mass together as a family. I can imagine people who don’t know me show up one day several years from now with my daughter for First Holy Communion and immediately assume that I’m just a Catholic in name only - not knowing that I’m probably in church and at Mass more often than some of them and have what I believe a deep spiritual connection with God - not that it shouldn’t even matter to them. My family and I are very respectful and show reverence while in Church and at Mass.

In regards to the lack of respect… that is true, it’s most disturbing and frustrating. Unfortunately, it is like attending a wedding. Families will invite their relatives and friends, some of whom may not be Catholic or practicing Catholics, and they might not behave as well as they should. But honestly, having been part of enough weddings and other big masses celebrating various sacraments as musicians - some of the worst offenders are the ones who attend mass regularly every Sunday. I’ve seen it with little old ladies who are always so respectful and reverent during a regular Sunday mass, but suddenly, because it’s a big “event”, they forget that this is a sacrament something that still requires
reverence.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I wonder how Jesus’ post in this thread would read…

Good point.

 

[tinalewis]

As a middle-aged married woman convert and multiple-times-per-week Mass goer, I’d like to propose the following guidelines (not rules) for Baptism, First Communion, Confirmation, Wedding, Ordination, and Funeral Mass attendees:

(1) We parishioners all know it’s your family member’s special day and you may have made a great effort to attend, traveled from out-of-town, etc. We welcome you with open arms to our parish.

(2) Because you are a guest, please observe guest-like manners. Please do not stand outside the doors smoking cigarettes and blocking the entrance so parishioners have to excuse themselves in a cloud of smoke to enter their own church. Please do not litter, or toss the event programs on the floor, or leave the restrooms a mess. Please show respect for the physical property. You may be unfamiliar with the layout of the parish, but everone knows not to throw used Kleenex in the hymnal rack or stick chewing gum on the pew.

(3) Because you are a guest, please refrain from being rude. Please do not engage in critical conversations on how your parish has nicer stained-glass windows, a better choir, more comfortable pews, nicer missalettes, etc. It’s human nature to make comparisons and I’ve been guilty of this myself. Still, it’s rude and it’s guaranteed not to make you any new friends from among the parishioners. Keep your comments to yourself until you get back home, then you can talk about the parish’s inadequacies all you like.

(4) Because you are a guest, please keep your children under control. This can be a challenge during a stressful event like a wedding or a funeral, but your efforts will be appreciated. No one wants to have Holy Water flicked on them by a 12 year old child “guest”. No one wants to have to tell your 5 year old to stop running up and down the stairs to the choir loft. Please do these things yourselves and maybe one of us will come up to you afterward and congratulate you on how well-behaved your children are.

(5) Finally, be aware that this is not exclusively your family’s event, it’s a Mass in the Catholic Church, open to all. It is not an invitation-only party. Smile and be friendly to the parishioners, especially during the sign of peace. Respect other’s needs to approach the priest. If someone needs to speak to the priest on an important matter, please don’t insist that the priest ignore him or her in order to join your family for picture-taking at that moment. Be patient and kind. Don’t insist on all the attention from everyone at every moment. It’s a special day, of course, but that doesn’t mean you can ride roughshod over someone else’s feelings or discount others’ needs.

My 2 cents.

 

[CDNowak]

Don’t you need time after baptism to fully accept Christianity into your life? I don’t understand why you simply want to get it over with.

That is not part of the sacrament and what Joannm suggests is by far the older tradition. Why should we withhold graces from our children for 12-16 years?

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Don’t you need time after baptism to fully accept Christianity into your life? I don’t understand why you simply want to get it over with.

My own experience: I was baptized shortly after my birth and a few months later was
confirmed. (My parents received permission to confirm me in Mexico City where my
maternal grandparents lived.) Of course, I did not give my consent, my parents spoke
for me. However, I can truthfully say, I have been a faithfilled Catholic ever since. I
envied the kids who were being prepared for Confirmation, but only because I wanted
to affirm my committment to the Church. If I had doubts, the Holy Spirit led me to
find the answers, so doubts about the Church never overwhelmed me or led me to
wander away. I thank God for that.

 

[buffalo]

Who allows it and why? Think about it.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Wow, I was baptised because “it was the thing to do”. My parents were only living together, my father was married but estranged from his first wife, yet the priest (in 1961) allowed me to be baptised.

Look at me now!

Baptism should not be an exclusive thing, it’s for the child’s benefit, whether the parents will raise them to be Catholic or not… Baptism brings graces to the child and if that child follows those graces later, miraculous things can happen.

PS: My father finally got an annulment when I was in my teens and my parents did get married

As for my confirmation? It was also something to do because it was something that’s supposed to be done. To this day the only thing I remember is my confirmation name and the flowered dress I wore. I don’t even remember taking classes to learn what confirmation was for!

 

[CB_Catholic]

I say let’s put Confirmation back to baptism, like it was in the ancient Church and how it is done in the Eastern Rites and Orthodox Churches. Then we won’t have to deal with the teen age Confirmation/graduation dilemma. Those who want to be practicing Catholics will continue to grow in their faith and those who don’t won’t have to go through the charade.

Joann, I am with you on this one. I believe the Sacraments of Initiation should be received all at once, even in infancy. Our Eastern brothers and sisters seem to adequately catechize their young in the Faith this way and have for millenium. I see no advantage in waiting until they can understand, because the understanding occurs gradually in both cases, and many of our young people receive the Sacraments without full understanding of them. But that is another topic.

 

[Loboto-Me]

I see no advantage in waiting until they can understand, because the understanding occurs gradually in both cases, and many of our young people receive the Sacraments without full understanding of them. But that is another topic.

I absolutely agree with this statement! My catechesis was done by going to Catholic schools from kindergarten to grade 10 (transfered to public highschool after this). In highschool we’d have religion class a few times a week that was basically a place where a things would go in through one ear and out the other. A child in school, most times, will not take religion seriously and will not make the effort to really learn it.

My real catechisis came through the graces of the sacraments that I’d received, where they were awakened and then that’s when I made my real choice to learn… unfortunately when I was in my 40’s. I now make my confirmation each and every day.

 

[PadraigPearce]

I think the OP is getting a bit of a rough time here. Her basic complaint is lack of respect for the sacraments. We all know what a problem that is. Every time one of these threads comes up everyone always says “don’t judge. You don’t know what’s in people’s hearts”. That’s true, you have no way of knowing which person may have gone to confession secretly the day before. But we know that’s not the case for a lot of the people who show up at First Communions, Confirmations etc. Even in my own family when one of these events happens I have to sit through mass with relatives who spend the rest of the year bashing the Church left right and centre, who spend Sunday mornings watching football, and then dutifully go up for communion like everything was perfect. I know for a fact that those people should not go up for communion, but a word from me would just cause grief between us.
So I really share the OP’s frustration, and I think churches need to do more to indicate that the sacraments are for Catholics, you must be in a state of grace to recieve communion etc.
But on the other hand I was one of those “sham” Catholics until a couple of years ago. I had a very limited connection to the Church, mostly from going to family events. I think if someone had told me off at a confirmation or baptism for not being reverent enough, I would have left completely and never come back to the Church. So we have to be extremely careful how we act . There’s a great quote from Chesterton where he says a person may be on the brink of entering the Church, and the only thing that will turn them away is a harsh word from a Christian.