Feds say no end in sight for policy of 'dumping' illegal immigrants in Arizona, Gov. Brewer says

[maryjk]

Before I try to legitimately respond to your question, I have to ask: Is this really the question you’d ask if Jesus were outside your door? I’m not trying to elicit eye rolls here but really – would you ask how you’d manage to support Christ if He were the illegal immigrant here?

The problem is that this isn’t one child outside my door. It isn’t even two children outside my door. Heck, I could take in 3 or 4. But it is thousands of children.

Our government system is already overloaded. There aren’t enough foster parents as it is.

So, what I am asking is how to care for thousands of children. Sixty thousand children, just this year.

How do you do it? We have three options. We send them back. We put them out on the streets. Or we take care of them.

Obviously the best option and the Christian option is to care for them. But how do you care for 60,000 unexpected children?

 

[Peter_J]

There were plenty of potential immigrants on wait lists – people who were doing everything the “right way” – back when the St. Louis arrived on our shores. Does this somehow mean that the decision to turn the St. Louis away was morally justified?

I’m not familiar with that, but I don’t think I need to be.

 

[gracepoole]

I’m not familiar with that, but I don’t think I need to be.

I’d suggest you do some reading.

 

[gracepoole]

The problem is that this isn’t one child outside my door. It isn’t even two children outside my door. Heck, I could take in 3 or 4. But it is thousands of children.

Our government system is already overloaded. There aren’t enough foster parents as it is.

So, what I am asking is how to care for thousands of children. Sixty thousand children, just this year.

How do you do it? We have three options. We send them back. We put them out on the streets. Or we take care of them.

Obviously the best option and the Christian option is to care for them. But how do you care for 60,000 unexpected children?

First, because we don’t have an easy answer to the problem we choose the unChristian option? I assume that’s not what you’re suggesting. To the practical question: why shouldn’t I accept an increased tax burden to shelter these children? Note that I’m fine with addressing border concerns to a point. But these children are already here. How can sending them back be a moral option?

Second, plenty of people claim that the economic burden of children justifies abortion. I assume, too, that you disagree with such a claim.

Finally, you’re right: we’re not just talking about one or two people. That doesn’t diminish the fact that each of these people has Christ within him or her.

 

[Path_Finder]

It can be argued that if you allow them to stay, you encourage others coming. They are in turn in the hands of human traffickers, smugglers, organized crime of the worse degree and the criminal smugglers are being payed big amounts to be smuggled.

 

[Path_Finder]

In southern parts of Arizona you may come across miles and miles of desert with women’s clothing hanging from trees. These trees are being referred to as “rape trees” and represent in plain sight the horrible sexual violence many immigrant women face.

arizonasexualassaultnetwork.org/sexual-assault-and-immigrants/

One may think they are being compassionate to the immigrants but where does this end?? And many of these women who come through are being assaulted on the way.

 

[Peter_J]

The problem is that this isn’t one child outside my door. It isn’t even two children outside my door. Heck, I could take in 3 or 4. But it is thousands of children.

Our government system is already overloaded. There aren’t enough foster parents as it is.

So, what I am asking is how to care for thousands of children. Sixty thousand children, just this year.

How do you do it? We have three options. We send them back. We put them out on the streets. Or we take care of them.

Obviously the best option and the Christian option is to care for them. But how do you care for 60,000 unexpected children?

First, because we don’t have an easy answer to the problem we choose the unChristian option? I assume that’s not what you’re suggesting. To the practical question: why shouldn’t I accept an increased tax burden to shelter these children? Note that I’m fine with addressing border concerns to a point. But these children are already here. How can sending them back be a moral option?

Second, plenty of people claim that the economic burden of children justifies abortion. I assume, too, that you disagree with such a claim.

Finally, you’re right: we’re not just talking about one or two people. That doesn’t diminish the fact that each of these people has Christ within him or her.

60,000? Have we decided that only the ones who have crossed the border into the USA count? if so, I missed it.

 

[Path_Finder]

What happens to some immigrants coming up through Mexico?

On 24 August 2010, the Mexican marines found 72 illegal immigrants dead—58 men and 14 women—in San Fernando, Tamaulipas. They were killed by Los Zetas for failing to pay for their kidnapping ransom and for refusing to work for the cartel.[33] One of the survivors, an Ecuadorian, faked his death and made it up to a military checkpoint to ask for help.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre

The massacre caused international reactions in the United States,[37] Ecuador,[38] El Salvador,[39] Honduras,[40] Guatemala,[41] Venezuela,[42] Brazil,[43] Organization of American States,[44] Amnesty International,[45] United Nations,[46] and all around Mexico.[47]

Does not accepting immigrants encourage more immigrants to come through illegally on this same path? See all that can happen?

This is nothing but opportunism by some in this country and they could care less about the well-being of those making this dangerous trek.

 

[gracepoole]

60,000? Have we decided that only the ones who have crossed the border into the USA count? if so, I missed it.

“Count”? I’m not sure I know what that means.

 

[gracepoole]

What happens to some immigrants coming up through Mexico?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_San_Fernando_massacre

Does not accepting immigrants encourage more immigrants to come through illegally on this same path? See all that can happen?

That’s quite a leap. Let’s assume that the parents of these children deemed the situation in their countries to be so deadly that they were willing to ship their kids off to the middle of nowhere just for the hope that they’d wind up safer. And based on the hypothesis that we might deter others from making the same decision, we’re willing to send these children back to what we can only assume to be incredibly dangerous circumstances? Though there’s no moral distinction between the child we see and the child we don’t see, we know that our choice to act or not act to save a life changes if the person in need of saving isn’t directly in front of us. Now we’re willing to also abandon the person we can see, hear, and touch?

This is nothing but opportunism by some in this country and they could care less about the well-being of those making this dangerous trek.

That’s a pretty ugly and baseless characterization. I have no idea what would make these people “opportunists” – what personal gain are they seeking?

 

[Path_Finder]

That’s quite a leap. Let’s assume that the parents of these children deemed the situation in their countries to be so deadly that they were willing to ship their kids off to the middle of nowhere just for the hope that they’d wind up safer. And based on the hypothesis that we might deter others from making the same decision, we’re willing to send these children back to what we can only assume to be incredibly dangerous circumstances? Though there’s no moral distinction between the child we see and the child we don’t see, we know that our choice to act or not act to save a life changes if the person in need of saving isn’t directly in front of us. Now we’re willing to also abandon the person we can see, hear, and touch?

That’s a pretty ugly and baseless characterization. I have no idea what would make these people “opportunists” – what personal gain are they seeking?

Are you just going to personalize the conversation?

Just because you call others statements “ugly and baseless” characterizations does not mean they are.

Just because you accuse others of making “leaps” doesn’t mean they are.

I guess you simply don’t have a response for the fact that compassion in this instance encourages human suffering and tragedy on a grand scale, human exploitation and continual illegal immigration into this country. I wouldn’t want my conscience to have to deal with that.

Yes, Democrats benefit from illegal immigration and are trying to give amnesty out.

I think this is why people have insisted that if we reform immigration law, let’s secure the border first, something the Democrat party has balked at.

 

[Path_Finder]

We have laws on our books for defending the borders of this country but what this looks like is more like the Federal Government is encouraging illegal immigration.

It’s already been thoroughly reported that those who come in through illegal immigration are likely to vote for the Democrats.

 

[Exiled_Child]

This immigration garbage is the same the world over. We’re all subject to laws which we had no hand in creating and which we have no choice but to obey. The idea is that we signed a social contract at birth, and through the very act of being born we agreed to go along with these laws. It’s beyond absurd. I guess we’re supposed to feel good about the situation and about ourselves, because clearly we Americans showed great wisdom by choosing to have American parents. If these immigrant kids had just had a little foresight they would have incarnated somewhere a bit farther north, away from all those narco gangs and death squads. But I suppose we all make mistakes; maybe we shouldn’t hold it against them.

 

[Path_Finder]

So unlike every other country in the world, USA is not suppose to have secured borders but for Canada, Switzerland, Mexico, that’s okay.

Maybe we should go totally the way of being “good guys”; there’s more poverty in parts of Africa and Asia than Latin America, let’s fly the destitute in. They don’t have the same chance to trek over the land as others do.

This obviously benefits the Democrat Party because these people for the most part would vote Democrat yet at the same time, granting amnesty leads to a rush on our border, hence, organized crime, human traffickers are able to benefit from this illegal migration.

 

[Exiled_Child]

If other countries didn’t have borders I would have left the US a long, long time ago. If there were freedom of movement in the world I believe population distribution would even out. Were it only possible, I would leave tomorrow and someone else could take my place.

 

[Peter_J]

“Count”? I’m not sure I know what that means.

I mean that those who stayed in, Mexico, Nicaragua, etc, count too, not just the people who have come across the border into the USA. (Presumably that would go without saying, but given some of the posts on this thread I figured I should say it explicitly.)

 

[gracepoole]

Are you just going to personalize the conversation?

Just because you call others statements “ugly and baseless” characterizations does not mean they are.

Actually, you personalized the conversation when you unfairly characterized those who want these children to stay as selfish opportunists. As someone who wants this outcome, that’s much appreciated. :tiphat:

Just because you accuse others of making “leaps” doesn’t mean they are.

They’re leaps until you provide credible, irrefutable, sufficient evidence to the contrary.

I guess you simply don’t have a response for the fact that compassion in this instance encourages human suffering and tragedy on a grand scale, human exploitation and continual illegal immigration into this country. I wouldn’t want my conscience to have to deal with that.

Sorry, sounds like a massive rationalization for inaction to me.

Yes, Democrats benefit from illegal immigration and are trying to give amnesty out.

I think this is why people have insisted that if we reform immigration law, let’s secure the border first, something the Democrat party has balked at.

Yay. I was worried the conversation wouldn’t devolve into a Democrat/Republican argument. The issue of sending these children back isn’t liberal or conservative.

 

[gracepoole]

I mean that those who stayed in, Mexico, Nicaragua, etc, count too, not just the people who have come across the border into the USA. (Presumably that would go without saying, but given some of the posts on this thread I figured I should say it explicitly.)

Of course those people “count.” But as this thread isn’t about everyone trapped in a violent community, it doesn’t seem appropriate to broaden it beyond the focus of those illegal immigrants here.

 

[Peter_J]

Actually, you personalized the conversation when you unfairly characterized those who want these children to stay as selfish opportunists.

I’m glad you hit upon something that we can agree about (see my first post, about misguided zeal /misdirected anger of some conservatives). Honestly, I think it would have been a shame if this conversation ended without us ever agreeing on anything.

Let’s pray for both sides be more sensible.

 

[Peter_J]

Of course those people “count.”

Something else we agree on!

But as this thread isn’t about everyone trapped in a violent community, it doesn’t seem appropriate to broaden it beyond the focus of those illegal immigrants here.

My apologies.

Come to think of it, the OP specified Arizona. So does that mean that we shouldn’t be broadening it beyond that focus by thinking about helping people outside of Arizona. :ehh: